sponge filter vs ugf?

[Jacob Hill-Legion Aquatics]

I've been really wanting to do a guppy tank, I have a spare 20g long that I plan on setting up once I move in a couple months. I'm trying to decide should I go with a sponge filter or undergravel filter I know a lot of people don't like undergravel filters but after watching corys video on them I've really wanted to try one. the undergravel filters are good for plants and water clarity but on the other hand sponge filters are just a great filter for breeding overall.

what would you do and what's your opinion on undergravel filters and how do you like sponge filters?

 

[ange]

For the kind of setup that you have in mind it really does come down to preference. If you're not sure you would like using the undergravel filter I highly recommend trying it out on the setup that you have in mind; that way you'll have an even better developed idea of what you like in your setups!

The biggest downside to it (in my opinion, of course) is that they're hard to service if something goes wrong. I considered one in my 50 hex but decided against it due to how difficult it would be to actually get down and fix a problem in the filtration. Hope this helps.

[sumplkrum]

I use sponge filters because of their utility/flexibility.
I keep more than I need running - that way I always have a couple extra seeded with bacteria and ready to move into a new tank/tub. I can also rearrange the whole tank if I like and the filter will still be fine.

I've seen my brother use undergravel filters very effectively and they definitely work. The difference is, once you set it up you really don't want to be changing anything. The substrate is your filter. If you have to move plants or anything like that, it makes quite a mess.

[Patrick_G]

It’s been a while since I’ve had an UGF, but the ones I ran as a kid worked well. Nowadays I lean towards the various types of power filters because I like the mechanical filtration, and the ability to easily remove excess detritus. I do have two tanks with air driven sponges, they work as advertised, and they’re super inexpensive. For guppy breeding I’d say they’re just about perfect. 

[Widgets]

Unless it is a bare bottom tank, I will always have a UGF. I have never had the desire to try a sand tank, that might be the exception. 

I feel that a tank should always have 2 forms of filtration, so I use either a HOB or sponge in addition to the UGF.

My main tank has a UGF driven by powerheads and a HOB. My shrimp tank has a UGF driven by airstones and had a sponge filter. I moved the sponge to setup the QT, and now I find myself in a situation where the QT may need to be a longer term setup, so it may be a while before the shrimp get it back.

 

[AndreaW]

I have an UG filter with powerheads running on my 46G community tank and also have a HOB filter. For me the combination was a must because I set up the tank for goldfish and knew I would have lots of waste and needed mega filtration. This set up would never work for guppies as the current is too strong.

I've loved my UG filter and I've only pulled it up once, when I had to reseal my tank. The flow is enough that I do have mulm that sits under the grid, but that's just a great spot for BB to grow. I never had to "service" it but did replace one of the powerheads (I've had it running for 20 years).

UG filters are really great at filtering waste down into the rocks so you can use the gravel vacuum to clean it up. I feel like UG filters tuck the mulm away better than a sponge filter, but I'm sure that would depend on your setup and probably your water flow as well. Sponge filters can also be moved around to create a different flow, or move to a QT tank or used to seed another tank, which UG filters can't do (although you can collect some of the substrate to move over).

You could always do both and have them work together, but depending on your setup, that might be overkill, especially if you ran powerheads. I know some people have retrofitted their powerheads with spray bars to distribute and soften the flow. 

[BeeD]

I'd call that an either/or kind of thing. Some of the fancier males have a harder time keeping with females in high flow situations; power heads, hang on back, etc. But the sponge and ugf never seem to be a problem. I would say that the sponge will ultimately remove more ammonia faster, though.

[lefty o]

sponges, and UGF's both work just fine. easy way to decide is which is more visibly appealing to you. with UGF's you see the uptake tubes, and with a sponge, you see the whole thing. both can be hidden behind plants and decor.

[Jacob Hill-Legion Aquatics]

On 3/22/2022 at 4:32 PM, ange said:

For the kind of setup that you have in mind it really does come down to preference. If you're not sure you would like using the undergravel filter I highly recommend trying it out on the setup that you have in mind; that way you'll have an even better developed idea of what you like in your setups!

The biggest downside to it (in my opinion, of course) is that they're hard to service if something goes wrong. I considered one in my 50 hex but decided against it due to how difficult it would be to actually get down and fix a problem in the filtration. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the great reply:)

[Jacob Hill-Legion Aquatics]

On 3/22/2022 at 6:34 PM, AndreaW said:

I have an UG filter with powerheads running on my 46G community tank and also have a HOB filter. For me the combination was a must because I set up the tank for goldfish and knew I would have lots of waste and needed mega filtration. This set up would never work for guppies as the current is too strong.

I've loved my UG filter and I've only pulled it up once, when I had to reseal my tank. The flow is enough that I do have mulm that sits under the grid, but that's just a great spot for BB to grow. I never had to "service" it but did replace one of the powerheads (I've had it running for 20 years).

UG filters are really great at filtering waste down into the rocks so you can use the gravel vacuum to clean it up. I feel like UG filters tuck the mulm away better than a sponge filter, but I'm sure that would depend on your setup and probably your water flow as well. Sponge filters can also be moved around to create a different flow, or move to a QT tank or used to seed another tank, which UG filters can't do (although you can collect some of the substrate to move over).

You could always do both and have them work together, but depending on your setup, that might be overkill, especially if you ran powerheads. I know some people have retrofitted their powerheads with spray bars to distribute and soften the flow. 

Thanks for the response Other people have been saying I could use both but would it be overkill for a 20g long?

On 3/22/2022 at 6:37 PM, BrettD said:

I'd call that an either/or kind of thing. Some of the fancier males have a harder time keeping with females in high flow situations; power heads, hang on back, etc. But the sponge and ugf never seem to be a problem. I would say that the sponge will ultimately remove more ammonia faster, though.

Thanks for the quick response that’s good to know.

[AndreaW]

On 3/22/2022 at 5:03 PM, Jacob Hill said:

Other people have been saying I could use both but would it be overkill for a 20g long?

It depends on how you run it... While you can have too much flow in a tank, I don't think you can have too much filtration. 

If you have an UGF ran by two powerheads and a SF, then the flow could definitely become a problem. If everything is running off bubblers, then no, I don't think it would be too much. You could do an UGF with uptakes at either end and a SF in the center, or UGF with the uptake on either end and a little more flow. You could also do two SFs in either corner. Also, what you use as the UGF makes a difference. I've seen people use a foam on a grate, or just a grate for their UGF. Your substrate will also make a difference. I've seen someone who had an UGF on one side of their tank with gravel, and a SF on the other with sand and two different scapes that blended from one to another.

Both filters work in a similar way; by creating a flow, they are moving water and waste through rocks/sponge, which then trap the mulm that you can clean out through gravel vacuuming or squeezing out the sponge. Both will be a good source of BB for your tank. 

I think the size of your SF and how you power the UGF are the real factors at play here. If you can create good filtration with a lower flow, I think it's a good idea to have multiple filtration options on a tank. You will have clearer water with more filtration, and with just enough flow, you won't have piles of mulm collecting in areas you see.

[BeeD]

On 3/22/2022 at 6:03 PM, Jacob Hill said:

Thanks for the response Other people have been saying I could use both but would it be overkill for a 20g long?

Thanks for the quick response that’s good to know.

I've been involved in a lot of 'over-filtration' conversations in the past, and I think people use the term differently. When people say 'over-filtration is bad', I think they usually mean that the current is too strong for the fish, as someone else mentioned. In the case of ugf + sponge, you'd really have to run a pretty ridiculous pump to stress your fish out with the current.

As far as filtration goes, it has to be a net positive. There will be lots of beneficial bacteria in your substrate either way, so pulling water through to feed it faster will be just fine. The sponge will still get plenty to eat.

 

[Jacob Hill-Legion Aquatics]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:32 PM, AndreaW said:

It depends on how you run it... While you can have too much flow in a tank, I don't think you can have too much filtration. 

If you have an UGF ran by two powerheads and a SF, then the flow could definitely become a problem. If everything is running off bubblers, then no, I don't think it would be too much. You could do an UGF with uptakes at either end and a SF in the center, or UGF with the uptake on either end and a little more flow. You could also do two SFs in either corner. Also, what you use as the UGF makes a difference. I've seen people use a foam on a grate, or just a grate for their UGF. Your substrate will also make a difference. I've seen someone who had an UGF on one side of their tank with gravel, and a SF on the other with sand and two different scapes that blended from one to another.

Both filters work in a similar way; by creating a flow, they are moving water and waste through rocks/sponge, which then trap the mulm that you can clean out through gravel vacuuming or squeezing out the sponge. Both will be a good source of BB for your tank. 

I think the size of your SF and how you power the UGF are the real factors at play here. If you can create good filtration with a lower flow, I think it's a good idea to have multiple filtration options on a tank. You will have clearer water with more filtration, and with just enough flow, you won't have piles of mulm collecting in areas you see.

Thanks for the really detailed replies and all the help one last question if you don't mind answering. Do you know what brand of undergravel filter would work best for a 20g long and what brand you use?

[AndreaW]

@Jacob Hill ~ Mine was purchased 20 years ago but looks pretty similar to this one. It has mixed reviews and without seeing it I can't tell the quality though. The plastic on mine has been sturdy and I've had no problems with it, but I've only pulled it out the one time I had to reseal the tank so once you set it up there's not much to do beyond vacuuming your gravel as needed. I have replaced the uptake tubes once or twice as they will grow algae and yellow over time.

The difference is that mine uses powerheads, but I probably wouldn't run powerheads with guppies unless you retrofitted them with spray bars (which I haven't done yet, but am considering, to break up the flow in my tank).

I think if you ran an UG filter like this one with a sponge filter in the middle you would get great filtration without a heavy flow. Make sure you have all the air pump and airline supplies including check valves and air flow controllers.

[Brandon p]

On 3/22/2022 at 10:15 PM, Jacob Hill said:

Thanks for the really detailed replies and all the help one last question if you don't mind answering. Do you know what brand of undergravel filter would work best for a 20g long and what brand you use?

Lee's 20L/29 Premium Undergravel Filter, 12-Inch by 30-Inch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002APV9S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_K05SJG932SXKKFXBZB6A

[Tanked]

I've never used a sponge filter, in part because I don't like air pumps and there is no way that I am aware of to know how much water they are actually moving.   Having said that, I do have 1 air driven UGF, because the power head was too much for the nano fish that occupy the 29.  The other tanks have UGFs with powerheads.  For me at least there is no maintenance to the UGF itself beyond a deep gravel cleaning. They are also nearly silent, and will clear a disturbed substrate quicker than other filters.

[Widgets]

On 3/23/2022 at 10:25 AM, Brandon p said:

Lee's 20L/29 Premium Undergravel Filter, 12-Inch by 30-Inch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002APV9S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_K05SJG932SXKKFXBZB6A

I second the Lee's Premium. It is the closest thing to the old white plastic ones from the 80's that I used. It may just be my memory and nostalgia, but I do think the old white ones were made from a thicker stronger plastic.

[Jacob Hill-Legion Aquatics]

On 3/23/2022 at 10:11 AM, AndreaW said:

@Jacob Hill ~ Mine was purchased 20 years ago but looks pretty similar to this one. It has mixed reviews and without seeing it I can't tell the quality though. The plastic on mine has been sturdy and I've had no problems with it, but I've only pulled it out the one time I had to reseal the tank so once you set it up there's not much to do beyond vacuuming your gravel as needed. I have replaced the uptake tubes once or twice as they will grow algae and yellow over time.

The difference is that mine uses powerheads, but I probably wouldn't run powerheads with guppies unless you retrofitted them with spray bars (which I haven't done yet, but am considering, to break up the flow in my tank).

I think if you ran an UG filter like this one with a sponge filter in the middle you would get great filtration without a heavy flow. Make sure you have all the air pump and airline supplies including check valves and air flow controllers.

 

On 3/23/2022 at 10:25 AM, Brandon p said:

Lee's 20L/29 Premium Undergravel Filter, 12-Inch by 30-Inch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002APV9S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_K05SJG932SXKKFXBZB6A

 

On 3/23/2022 at 10:41 AM, Tanked said:

I've never used a sponge filter, in part because I don't like air pumps and there is no way that I am aware of to know how much water they are actually moving.   Having said that, I do have 1 air driven UGF, because the power head was too much for the nano fish that occupy the 29.  The other tanks have UGFs with powerheads.  For me at least there is no maintenance to the UGF itself beyond a deep gravel cleaning. They are also nearly silent, and will clear a disturbed substrate quicker than other filters.

 

On 3/23/2022 at 10:48 AM, Widgets said:

I second the Lee's Premium. It is the closest thing to the old white plastic ones from the 80's that I used. It may just be my memory and nostalgia, but I do think the old white ones were made from a thicker stronger plastic.

Thanks for all the great info guys you all have really helped me. 🙂

[BF McUmber]

Does gravel size matter much with the undergravel filter? Most the videos I see people are using roughly 5 mm gravel it looks. As the grain size decreases I assume it would be harder and harder to pull water through, but would that only come into play when you get down to sand sizes? Currently in my tank I have the Caribsea peace river substrate which advertises a 1-2mm grain size. 

I am debating on switching out my current sponge filter for an undergravel filter because I think I would prefer to gravel vac than manage the sponge filter. The inhabitants would be some lipstick gobies and some guppies. 

Additionally, I know under gravel filters typically go under the whole taken bottom, but is there any reason you couldn't just put it under half the tank? I still struggle with when Cory was talking about beneficial bacterial colonizing. If you only offer half the locations for BB to grow, will it just grow in more dense? At some point I assume you don't have enough surface area on the décor and in your undersized filter to keep up, but I don't fully grasp when that point is.  

Edited March 29, 2022 by BF McUmber

[AndreaW]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:32 PM, BF McUmber said:

Does gravel size matter much with the undergravel filter?

Yes, too small and you basically block the water flow. I have traditional gravel like this: 

It works perfectly for the UG filter I have that is run by powerheads. With a powerhead, I probably could go a little smaller. If it is run by a bubbler, I don't know that I would, as you want plenty of water to be able to flow through. Sand definitely wouldn't work and you would end up with sand under the plate which would essentially plug it up.

Even without an UG filter, you tank should have enough surface areas to colonize BB -- unless you were running a bare tank and wiping the glass down in every cleaning or something extreme like that.

I haven't used sponge filters yet, but I like the idea of them, however, I really do love how crystal clear I can get my water with a combination of a HOB and the UG filter. The drawback though? I have a high flow of water between the powerheads and the HOB so there are many fish I can't keep in this tank. (I think I mentioned that in my previous response.)

On 3/28/2022 at 9:32 PM, BF McUmber said:

is there any reason you couldn't just put it under half the tank?

I can't remember who's tank it is, but yes, I've seen someone who has gravel on one side with an UG filter, and the other side is sand, with no UG filter on that side. BB will still develop on gravel even without an UG filter, but since you don't have water running through it, it will mostly live on the top layer of your substrate.

[Brandon p]

Most substrate will work, sand does not well. There are ways 2 to use sand but take and have to be be built in layers. Almost any size above sand will work. I do have UGF with sand but how long it will last? I love my UGF filters but I still use sponge filter and HOB depends one thank and how im stocking the tank. Canisters are the worst.

On 3/22/2022 at 3:29 PM, Jacob Hill said:

I've been really wanting to do a guppy tank, I have a spare 20g long that I plan on setting up once I move in a couple months. I'm trying to decide should I go with a sponge filter or undergravel filter I know a lot of people don't like undergravel filters but after watching corys video on them I've really wanted to try one. the undergravel filters are good for plants and water clarity but on the other hand sponge filters are just a great filter for breeding overall.

what would you do and what's your opinion on undergravel filters and how do you like sponge filters?

 

with the UGF you can turn the air down. With guppies you can take out the charcoal filter and replace it with a sponge in that spot. I normally use 20ppi. 

[gardenman]

Sponge filter versus UGF? I've got two tanks up and running with a 2" thick 40 PPI black sponge as the substrate over a UGF grid with no issues. I call it a bottom of the tank Matten filter. (There's a thread here on it.) The black sponge looks like a fine black sand and you get the benefits of both types of filtration in one package. 

[Kathy F]

Sponge filters are more versatile.    You can move them from tank to tank, change PPI from fine to very porous or change filtration type completely.  Once an UGF is set up short of a complete tear down that sucker is in there for good.   I'm always grossed out when I gravel vac my UGF tank.   The gunk that comes out of that substrate is unbelievable and it is the only tank I own that I dread gravel vacuuming.  Having said all that, the UGF works really well.  I do also run a HOB that is just filled with polishing pads so I can have some mechanical filtration but that is the only addition I did to my UGF tank.   I would not run UGF in a fry tank mainly because it deprives the fry of a food source.   They like to eat gunk off the sponge filter but as long as you provide them adequate food the lack of this food source is probably not that huge of a deal.   

 

[Widgets]

On 3/29/2022 at 8:42 AM, Kathy F said:

I'm always grossed out when I gravel vac my UGF tank.   The gunk that comes out of that substrate is unbelievable and it is the only tank I own that I dread gravel vacuuming.

I rarely vacuum my UGF, preferring to leave the mulm trapped for the plants roots to reach out and enjoy. In tanks on an open bottom stand you can see where the mulm builds up. There is none near the plant roots, and the roots spread to reach more.

How does the gunk you vacuum out from your UGF compare to the gunk you get when you squeeze the sponge to clean it? Bonus for the UGF, you don't have to get your hands in the gunk to clean it.

I have preferred a HOB to augment the UGF. I had not really used sponge filters until recently, but the large sponge prefilter on my HOB has many of the benefits of a sponge filter. I am considering adding a sponge filter to my community tank to transfer to the QT when I need it, instead of the shrimp tank (once I have to worry about shrimplets). I just have to figure out where it will fit.

[Tanked]

On 3/28/2022 at 11:32 PM, BF McUmber said:

Does gravel size matter much with the undergravel filter? Most the videos I see people are using roughly 5 mm gravel it looks. As the grain size decreases I assume it would be harder and harder to pull water through, but would that only come into play when you get down to sand sizes? Currently in my tank I have the Caribsea peace river substrate which advertises a 1-2mm grain size. 

I am debating on switching out my current sponge filter for an undergravel filter because I think I would prefer to gravel vac than manage the sponge filter. The inhabitants would be some lipstick gobies and some guppies. 

Additionally, I know under gravel filters typically go under the whole taken bottom, but is there any reason you couldn't just put it under half the tank? I still struggle with when Cory was talking about beneficial bacterial colonizing. If you only offer half the locations for BB to grow, will it just grow in more dense? At some point I assume you don't have enough surface area on the décor and in your undersized filter to keep up, but I don't fully grasp when that point is.  

I am also a fan of the HOB/ UGF with powerhead  combo.  Gravel size and depth matter more with an air driven system than with power heads.  Too small or too deep will reduce water flow as @AndreaW said.  Gravel that is too large will reduce mechanical filtration.  The only reason I can think of for not going with a partial UGF, is that the gravel only area is not a mechanical filter.