Persistent nitrite elevation

[BAT]

Nerms,

Am 0.25

Ni 0.5

Na 15-20

planted 10G tank with 2 non pest snails, host of pest snails, 1 betta

any idea why the nitrates are spiking all of a sudden?  Yesterday i did a 50% water change and added bacteria, but slightly worse today.

only difference is i added some new plants last night. 2 micro swords from AC

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@BAT any time you change something in your tank this can happen. Your ammonia is also too high, both ammonia and nitrite should be 0. How old is the tank my friend what are you using for filtration. 

[BAT]

Tank is 15 mos old

two sponge filters

snail died last week. Vacuumed up substrate after finding him. And having been diligently vacuuming.

only other thing is i added root tabs like 4 days ago

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Ah yep all of that likely not helping your situation:

Snail death

Disturbing substrate due to snail death (if you don't normally disturb said substrate)

Root tabs.

Adding plants. 

All of these things can do it and this combination definitely did. Your good bacteria is unable to keep up with the spikes so it's kind of like cycling again. No worries, this happens. Everyone does this differently- if it were ME, I would do daily small water changes 25% at least depending on test (maybe not cleaning the substrate or ONLY cleaning a small portion each day). It's kind of like a small fish-in cycle. You'll get over this, just don't make any further changes until you're over the hump. Oh and don't squeeze out the filters until after you get through it- Hopefully they're nice and bacteria-y 🙃

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[BAT]

Oh no! I also squeezed out the filters earlier this week!😱😱😱

I was worried that gunk in there would cause a nitrate spike. 
 

So when do u squeeze out filters in general?(frequency)

 

also, how often do you vacuum substrate? I was getting black funk again and smelly mulm (is that what it’s called?) so I thought I should keep vacuuming. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

LOL, yeah maybe too much at once my friend. Only squeeze out ONE filter at a time never both- that's overcleaning and can cause these issues. It's ok, learning experience. 🙂 I hardly ever squeeze out my sponge filters TBH- I run 2 as well. I  might do it once every 3 months in most of my tanks. This often depends on stocking and I do frequent visual inspections. I squeeze out my Accidental Oto sponge much more often since it's a 10 gallon and my 50+ otos are messy as...

If you want to be less like me I'd say squeezing ONE filter out a month and going back and forth between the two is probably good hygiene/practice. 

Yes, vaccuum substrate by all means if it brings you joy but know that it can cause issues- it can also prevent them. This to me is a style thing and neither right nor wrong. At least for now if you continue I'd recommend doing only small sections. Then the next time you do another section. This is just how I would do it. Honestly most of my tanks I leave the substrate alone. The only one I don't has bigger gravel and is easier to vacuum however I only vacuum the front area where I can see and leave behind the plants and pots. Mulm isn't a bad thing and that's what is back there. 

[BAT]

Thanks @xXInkedPhoenixX! This is VERY helpful. The good and bad part of the hobby is the continued learning!  I will follow your lead with the sponge cleaning.  They didnt look very dirty so i was treating myself more than an issue.

I have PTSD from a time when I wasn’t gravel vacuuming and I got a nitrate spike out of nowhere. And then that spiraled into a stressed betta and fin rot treatment and quarantine - that we have just recovered from. I stabilized this tank before putting the betta back in.  I have a pretty thick gravel layer - like 3 inches. Is that OK?

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I'm always learning too, I guess this is why I like the hobby. Some lessons are hard ones (like when we lose fish) but others despite possible dangers are actually kind of fun (I like figuring out what's going on with water parameters and tinkering a bit). 

If you want to vacuum, by allllll means keep vacuuming. If you're diligent about it you're not likely to have an issue. It's when you don't then suddenly do that it can be an issue- at least in my experience. I've had everything from bare bottom, 1" to 3 like you. All of it is ok. 

Not that this is your experience but were you using root tabs when your Nitrate spiked? I used some root tabs when I started back in the hobby (not from ACO) and it did such crappy things to my water parameters (including a scary spike) I swore them all off- I've not had an issue since. 

(I have a GIGANTIC amazon sword that I grew out from a baby plant- does just fine without root tabs)

 

[BAT]

The original nitrate spike - yes. Was using root tabs. People told me that wasn’t it but i was suspicious. I was using seachem tabs then.  After that i switched to AC tabs. My plants seem to be doing well even without tabs. So hard to know!

I also wonder if when i disturb the gravel after putting the root tabs in - that makes it worse

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

It can. ANYTHING you do to change something in your tank *can* cause a problem. Most of the time you'll never see it manifest as an issue if your tank is stable. I think your tank could have been stable you just did too many things at one time causing an imbalance hence the spikes. 

[BAT]

Ha! My husband who doesnt do fishkeeping says - you are changing too much at once. Now i will tell him that he is right LOL

thx you!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

It will be nice for him to have a small victory. 🙂 

[BAT]

@xXInkedPhoenixX parameters about the same - so not worse at least. Did the water change with minimal disturbance as you suggested.  I am near the end of my bottle of bacteria - what is their shelf life once opened?
Fish seems to be doing OK. I keep a close eye.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I think you'll be fine without the bacteria supplement. Just be diligent about the water changes. 

[Wrencher_Scott]

Ya, sounds like you need to clean a bit more and maybe add a filter. 

And yes, don't over-clean the filters. 

[BAT]

GOOD NEWS! After daily water changes (no vacuuming) the ammonia and nitrites are now 0! YAY!  Thanks all!

Edited March 23, 2022 by BAT

[BAT]

Ok- so here is my next question. @xXInkedPhoenixX I made it through a minor ammonia spike w amquel and adding bacteria. Now it has been a week since changing water and like a week and a half since gravel vacuum. The nitrates are 10. Probably bc of the bamboo. The ammonia and nitrite are zero. 
 

Do I just keep checking? When do I water change? I added some water today bc 1. The water level was dropping and 2. I had heard that if you don’t replace water then there can even mineral deficiencies. 

[Jennifer V]

I would just keep checking the water and do water changes if you see the ammonia and/or nitrite come back and the nitrates climb. I believe the ideal nitrate ppm for plants is around 20 so you still have room as far as that goes. Seems like you have a light stock and lots of filtration so you may not need to do water changes as frequently. 

[BAT]

Yes @Jennifer V only 1 betta. I had a nitrate spike a few months ago. But after that I added another sponge filter (2 now) and bamboo. And that seems to have helped. 

[Jennifer V]

On 3/28/2022 at 7:32 PM, BAT said:

Yes @Jennifer V only 1 betta. I had a nitrate spike a few months ago. But after that I added another sponge filter (2 now) and bamboo. And that seems to have helped. 

Oh I bet! I don't know much about Bettas but I think I remember that they like nitrates in between 10 and 20 but I personally don't think nitrates are much to worry about unless they get over 40 ppm. My pea puffer tank is always around 40 ppm or even a bit higher and the messy peas are absolutely fine. 

[Odd Duck]

On 3/28/2022 at 8:20 PM, BAT said:

Ok- so here is my next question. @xXInkedPhoenixX I made it through a minor ammonia spike w amquel and adding bacteria. Now it has been a week since changing water and like a week and a half since gravel vacuum. The nitrates are 10. Probably bc of the bamboo. The ammonia and nitrite are zero. 
 

Do I just keep checking? When do I water change? I added some water today bc 1. The water level was dropping and 2. I had heard that if you don’t replace water then there can even mineral deficiencies. 

Yes, keep tracking and doing normal water changes.  As long as things stay steady, you could probably sneak in some other livestock gradually.  Carefully, of course, considering the nature of Bettas.

[BAT]

On 3/28/2022 at 10:09 PM, Odd Duck said:

Yes, keep tracking and doing normal water changes.  As long as things stay steady, you could probably sneak in some other livestock gradually.  Carefully, of course, considering the nature of Bettas.

@Odd Duckwhat do you mean by normal water changes? Based on time or  nitrate levels?

[Odd Duck]

On 3/29/2022 at 2:17 AM, BAT said:

@Odd Duckwhat do you mean by normal water changes? Based on time or  nitrate levels?

I do both. There are things that can’t be tested for in home (or short of having access to something like a mass spectrometer). 😝  So I try to do at least every other week or so water changes even if my parameters test perfect.  If my parameters are off something is very wrong in my tank since I typically under stock and over filter plus usually heavily plant.  I do all this because I tend to be a bit heavy handed with food.  This keeps me out of trouble for the most part unless I’m slacking too much on water changes.  I’ve had unexplained plant die offs that lead to problems in my smaller tanks, but otherwise things tend to click along well.

[Guppysnail]

I find routines work best for me. I’m not scientific so bear with the explanation.  I feel like if I stick to the routine the tanks adapts to my routine in the amount of bacteria  It needs to be stable etc. Possibly the bacteria breeding schedule adapts??? Etc. When I alter my routine is when I see most issues. I do wc gravel vac sponge squeeze etc even if the nitrate test etc do not indicate. I’m like @Odd Duck there are to many things I cannot test for…and what the heck even is a mass spectrometer 🤣

[Odd Duck]

On 3/29/2022 at 6:13 AM, Guppysnail said:

and what the heck even is a mass spectrometer 🤣

A machine that can separate out all kinds of different chemicals, including organics.  Google says they run about $10,000.00-$100,000.00.  Unless you have a cool 10 grand laying around with nothing better to do, plus a skilled, highly trained technician that knows how to run and do maintenance, that’ll cost you another $50,000-$70,000 a year in salary, it’s a touch beyond the average hobbyist’s means.  😂  If somebody wants to invest, I’m sure we’d all be willing to send lots of samples for loads of studies!  😃 😉