New tank.

[Robinowitz]

I set up a new 10 gallon quarantine tank 2 days ago.  I seeded it with media from one of my cycled tanks.  I have 4 new livebearers and 3 mystery snails in it and am testing parameters daily to follow the nitrogen cycle progression.  All parameters are good except for nitrites which read .25-.50ppm.  I’ve done 40% water changes each day with prime added to bind the nitrite.   Why didn’t my cycled media bring BB to deal with nitrites from the cycled tank that has no nitrite issues?  Any guesses?  Any other thoughts?  I’m trying to figure out how to have access to a cycled quarantine tank on demand without having it up and running as a cycled tank all the time.  

[Scapexghost]

Maybe you didn't move enough? All the bacteria are full on ammonia that their are not enough left to eat the nitrite

[Robinowitz]

On 3/19/2022 at 12:53 AM, Scapexghost said:

Maybe you didn't move enough? All the bacteria are full on ammonia that their are not enough left to eat the nitrite

After testing today if the nitrites are still high I will add another baggie of media from the cycled tank.  It’s a valid exploration.  Thanks Scapexghost.  

[Cinnebuns]

On 3/19/2022 at 12:53 AM, Scapexghost said:

Maybe you didn't move enough? All the bacteria are full on ammonia that their are not enough left to eat the nitrite

It's a different bacteria that eats each. 

[Robinowitz]

On 3/19/2022 at 1:24 PM, Cinnebuns said:

It's a different bacteria that eats each. 

Right, that is my understanding.  So how do the different BB populate the media in a cycled tank.  Is one dominant over the other?  As I understand the nitrogen cycle you get ammonia that is broken down into nitrite, both being consumed/processed by different bacteria.  The bacteria exist in response to the waste products.  In what proportion do each groups of bb exist?   Why is the media from my cycled tank processing ammonia into nitrite but my nitrite isn’t being processed?  Leads me to believe the different bb exist in different areas of my cycled tank.  And apparently the bb that processes nitrite isn’t on media, or in sufficient quantities.  Meaning it’s hanging out elsewhere in my cycled tank because I have no nitrite issues there.  Ugh.  Interesting stuff.  Need to understand though to be able to react and adapt to new challenges. 

[Odd Duck]

On 3/18/2022 at 11:02 PM, Robinowitz said:

I set up a new 10 gallon quarantine tank 2 days ago.  I seeded it with media from one of my cycled tanks.  I have 4 new livebearers and 3 mystery snails in it and am testing parameters daily to follow the nitrogen cycle progression.  All parameters are good except for nitrites which read .25-.50ppm.  I’ve done 40% water changes each day with prime added to bind the nitrite.   Why didn’t my cycled media bring BB to deal with nitrites from the cycled tank that has no nitrite issues?  Any guesses?  Any other thoughts?  I’m trying to figure out how to have access to a cycled quarantine tank on demand without having it up and running as a cycled tank all the time.  

Unless you moved a seasoned filter or at least a portion of seasoned filter media, your BB’s still have to have time to establish in the new tank.  The BB’s that convert nitrite to nitrate take longer to establish.  Just moving media doesn’t get a full cycle unless your media have sufficient BB’s to do the entire job.

If I have a sponge with capacity for 20 gallons running in a 10 gallon tank with another 20 gallon sponge, that doesn’t mean each filter can cover 20 gallons or even 10 gallons right off the bat when moved to another tank.  That means that each filter has been handling its share of filtration for that 10 gallon tank.  It will take time for it to grow from handling, say 5 gallons worth of work, to its full capacity.  It will get there faster than a new filter, even if mulm/BB’s are added to the tank, but the bacteria still have to grow to meet the demand.

If you had 2 x 20 gallon filters meeting demand in a 40 gallon tank, then moved one to a 10 gallon, you would almost certainly be covered.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Odd Duck

[Cinnebuns]

@Robinowitz seeded filter media does not instantly cycle a new tank, it just speeds it up. Likely you do have the right bb for nitrite but not enough. It still takes time for that population to grow. Another thing I've found that speed it up the process is bottled bacteria. I dosed it every day and ended up doing a fish in cycle in a little less than 3 weeks!  It's not what I used, and I have no scientific proof of it, but it's commonly regarded that Fritz (7 I believe?) is the best bottled bacteria because it's active, not dormant, bacteria. Other should work as well though. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Cinnebuns

[Odd Duck]

On 3/19/2022 at 2:35 PM, Cinnebuns said:

@Robinowitz seeded filter media does not instantly cycle a new tank, it just speeds it up. Likely you do have the right bb for nitrite but not enough. It still takes time for that population to grow. Another thing I've found that speed it up the process is bottled bacteria. I dosed it every day and ended up doing a fish in cycle in a little less than 3 weeks!  It's not what I used, and I have no scientific proof of it, but it's commonly regarded that Fritz (7 I believe?) is the best bottled bacteria because it's active, not dormant, bacteria. Other should work as well though. 

I’m not really a believer in bottled bacteria myself. There is scientific evidence that at least 70% or more of the BB’s die off within 30 days of not having an ongoing food supply and the rest are going to go dormant.  I’m pretty sure that none of the bottled bacteria are going to be in your hands within 30 days after they are produced.  So you’re getting dormant bacteria, not active bacteria.  Unless your bottle has a production date within that 30 days, you’re almost certainly not getting active bacteria.  There’s nothing wrong with getting dormant bacteria.  They can absolutely jumpstart your cycle.  But they are not active from the beginning.  And they still need to get into your filter, come out of dormancy, start reproducing, and keep growing until all the strains that process different waste products, reach the bioload present in the tank.  In other words, they can handle all the “food” you are throwing at them.

My tanks typically “cycle” in just a few days (or virtually instantly if the filter’s capacity {I’m not talking flow rate, I’m talking biofiltration capacity} exceeds the new tank’s bioload) because I often switch a very well seasoned filter over to the new tank and plant heavily.  But I don’t add fish yet to a planted tank just because the test numbers say I can.  Those plants can be disrupted by certain fish (pretty much any bottom feeder) so I usually wait at least 2-4 weeks until the plants are solidly rooted before I stock a tank.  Every time I rush, my plants pay and often have to be replanted multiple times.  When the plants get disrupted, they aren’t adding their best filtration ability and disrupting plants means disrupting substrate and potential ammonia spikes.

If I have enough epiphytes or other water column feeders, I can push stocking a new tank or go ahead and put fish into a QT tank safely without having to do loads of water changes.  But whether you’re starting a new tank or resetting a QT tank, you have to test, water change as needed, ideally under stock for your anticipated biofiltration capacity and anticipate the bioload.  If I have a filter that has biofiltration capacity that is going to exceed the bioload I put into a QT tank, my numbers never budge because my filter handles it completely.  I can over feed fry safely, offer a little extra food to new fish without worrying I’ll need to siphon out every tiny speck of uneaten food, don’t have to water change multiple times daily and frighten the already stressed fish, etc.

Bottled bacteria are nothing compared to a seasoned, fully at max biofiltration capacity filter.  Adding seeded media is a starting place, but it has to be enough to handle the bioload or the tank still has to “cycle” which just means the BB’s are growing up to the handle the bioload of the tank.  That can be trickier to estimate until you have some experience and have been there and some mistakes yourself.

It’s about either having enough water volume to dilute the “pollution” or having enough biofiltration to remediate the “pollution”.  New filters need time for BB’s to grow, or swap enough seasoned media or swap a well seasoned filter with sufficient active biofiltration capacity to handle the load into the tank.