Mystery Fish Stowaway

[Widgets]

Here is another video of the tank. The shrimp is about 3/4" and the driftwood is about 1" from the front glass. I tried to show the distance by panning but not sure gives enough perspective. If you look closely you can see all sorts of critters both on the wood and swimming around it.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Widgets
Replace link with video

[Widgets]

So, tomorrow is water change day. How can I safely siphon off water when I cannot see the smallest of the fry with my naked eye? Should I just skip water changes until they get smaller?

I am wondering how long it would take to siphon a few gallons using airline hose with an airstone on the end.

[Odd Duck]

On 3/12/2022 at 6:44 AM, Widgets said:

So, tomorrow is water change day. How can I safely siphon off water when I cannot see the smallest of the fry with my naked eye? Should I just skip water changes until they get smaller?

I am wondering how long it would take to siphon a few gallons using airline hose with an airstone on the end.

You can put a piece of thin material across the open end of the siphon.  I used some ancient knee high stockings (pantyhose material).  It won’t remove much debris but lets you do your water change without sucking up any fry.  Since your fry are hanging up top, you would probably also be pretty safe using a narrow hose kept down low to pull out debris.

[Torrey]

On 3/11/2022 at 8:30 AM, Widgets said:

I am still researching. There is already a ton of life in the tank. You can see some of it in the video I have some ACO fry food on the way. I am thinking about starting a infusoria culture. I will also see what the LFS has to offer.

If they are danio fry, I have the best success with boiled egg yolk the first week. Put inside a cloth bag, and squeeze just enough for some of the yolk to press through the weave of the cloth. The fry will eat what they need, and the mess is minimal. First week I change out the bag every 90 minutes while the normal lights are on. I leave subdued lighting on overnight for the first week, and change the food every 4 hours following a water change with aged water from the plant tank.

This method was successful for a batch of discus in the early 90's who had gorgeous parents with zero clue on *how* to parent...

[Torrey]

On 3/12/2022 at 5:44 AM, Widgets said:

So, tomorrow is water change day. How can I safely siphon off water when I cannot see the smallest of the fry with my naked eye? Should I just skip water changes until they get smaller?

I am wondering how long it would take to siphon a few gallons using airline hose with an airstone on the end.

For some reason, I missed this question earlier. I used airline tubing to suction up debris, as I did two small water changes each day for the first 2 weeks to keep ammonia levels nonexistent and nitrate as low as possible. If they are zebra danio fry, they are very vulnerable to ammonia and nitrite burns of the gills, so you will want to test your water regularly.

Airline tube that drains into a mesh strainer set up==> with a white papertowel in the strainer, and a clear cup on top of the strainer, for the airline to drain into... the fry will generally stay in the clear cup if they take a ride through the tube, and if I accidentally knocked over the cup, the paper towel made sure I didn't lose any. They are very easy to see with a white background behind the cup... or flicking on the white paper towel if they get out of the cup. I used the paper towel to return them to the tank directly, rather than risk squishing them.

[Widgets]

Water parameters: Ammonia and Nitrites at 0 ppm, Nitrates somewhere between 10 and 20 ppm. I tried a small water change using an airline hose and airstone. My concern was not the suspected zebra danio fry, but the smaller fry like organisms that I can only see with the camera zoom. Examining the discard water in a specimen container, I did not see anything.

I also added some trimmings of Pogostemon Stellatus 'Octopus' from my display tank.

I saw the guppy fry nipping at the suspected zebra danio fry. I haven't decided what to do with the guppy (stowaway) so for now I put her in the QT with the wild caught least killifish. Wait, I have least killifish fry too!!! When it rains, it pours.

 

 

 

[Widgets]

The fry have gotten a bit bigger. They must be finding food cause there is plenty poo on the driftwood.

I wonder how old they need to get before we can get a positive ID. Here are some videos from today.

 

 

 

[PineSong]

They look active and growing, good job!

[Odd Duck]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:50 PM, Widgets said:

The fry have gotten a bit bigger. They must be finding food cause there is plenty poo on the driftwood.

I wonder how old they need to get before we can get a positive ID. Here are some videos from today.

 

 

 

Those are looking more danio like all the time.  Looking forward to them reaching ID size!

[Widgets]

On 3/23/2022 at 2:07 AM, Odd Duck said:

Those are looking more danio like all the time.  Looking forward to them reaching ID size!

So, how big do they need to be to ID?

Assuming they are Zebra Danios, in your opinion, when would it be safe to move them to a grow out tank? What size grow out tank would I need for 80'ish fry?

I don't have an indoor space available for another tank, unless I commandeer my 10g QT, but that would be too small. Would they do OK in an outdoor pond container?

[Odd Duck]

On 3/23/2022 at 6:19 AM, Widgets said:

So, how big do they need to be to ID?

Assuming they are Zebra Danios, in your opinion, when would it be safe to move them to a grow out tank? What size grow out tank would I need for 80'ish fry?

I don't have an indoor space available for another tank, unless I commandeer my 10g QT, but that would be too small. Would they do OK in an outdoor pond container?

They’re big enough when they’re big enough to tell.  When we don’t know for sure what species they are we just have to wait and see.  Post pics weekly and we’ll all take turns guessing as we go along.  😆  They would be fine in a 10 gallon with weekly water changes.  I raised giant danios in a 10 gallon until they were big enough to sell to my lfs - 1.5”.  At that point I didn’t have any extra tanks to put them in so it was water changes for the win.

[Minanora]

I kept 130+ guppy kids in a 10G until they were almost 2 months old. With how small your fry are a 10 is fine.

I'm looking forward to the reveal! I'm guessing zebra Danios. How funny if you put them in there and got a spawn so fast. Nature finds a way!

[Widgets]

I tried to get a decent picture of the fry, but the camera is too slow. Here is another video zoomed in. The small swimming things are still there and don't seem to have grown any. They must be some microorganism. @a tired fish keeper any ideas what they could be?

[Widgets]

Here are some pictures from today. There are several that are growing well.

But there are still more tiny ones. Are they not growing, or could there still be fry hatching out?

Edited March 31, 2022 by Widgets

[a tired fish keeper]

No I don’t but I am sure someone does.

[H.K.Luterman]

This is so cool! Glad they're doing well!

[Torrey]

You have a wide variety of microfauna, predominantly single celled aquatic species that make great first foods for baby fish... who are looking an awful lot like baby zebra danio.

teeny tiny zebra danio, finally free swimming, 5 days post hatch.

 

[Odd Duck]

On 3/31/2022 at 12:23 PM, Widgets said:

Here are some pictures from today. There are several that are growing well.

But there are still more tiny ones. Are they not growing, or could there still be fry hatching out?

You may still have some hatching but that seems like a really long time span.  You may have more than one species which could explain the different sizes.  You may also just have some that are stunted and not eating well so not growing.  I’ve seen it happen that some just don’t eat as well and miss out on food so they don’t grow well.  Some remain runts, some catch up.

Your pic looks like it could be a zebra danio?  It should start to get more stripes in the next few weeks, if so.  If it doesn’t, them we’ll have another guessing session as they grow.

[Widgets]

On 3/31/2022 at 3:07 PM, Torrey said:

You have a wide variety of microfauna, predominantly single celled aquatic species that make great first foods for baby fish... who are looking an awful lot like baby zebra danio.

teeny tiny zebra danio, finally free swimming, 5 days post hatch.

 

I didn't have time to get my camera out, but I saw one of the larger fry eat a tiny worm off the glass. It is so neat to have this ecosystem going.

Which brings me to a dilemma. I was planning on moving my wild caught Least Killifish into the Least Shrimptopia tank once they came out of the QT. Then I found these surprise fry. I was originally thinking that I would use the QT as a fry grow out tank, but the Maracyn killed off the cycle (or knocked it way down). It has rebounded now, but the QT is not supporting the diverse microfauna like Least Shrimptopia is. I think I should leave the fry where they are right now, especially since there are still tiny fry.

But what should I do with the Least Killifish? I don't trust them with the the tiny fry. I want to get them out of the QT so I can move it to a better location. I am thinking about getting one of these for the Least Killifish to hang outside the Least Shrimptopia tank while I wait for the fry to grow a bit. I would float some stem plants for cover.

Fluval Multi-Chamber Holding and Breeding Box, Large https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005QRDCP2/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_BD723FPKVNPW0BR11XV1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Anyone have experience with this type of holding chamber, or other ideas for me to consider?

[Torrey]

If you are asking for my solution, when I discovered the danio fry last year I used it as an excuse to buy not one, but two new 10 gallon tanks, lol.

Story is in my Walstad Inspired Scape.

If you use tank water and a few plants out of the tank, you will move beneficial bacteria and microfauna into the new tank (microfauna don't like the dechlorinators, in my experience, so baby fish grow out tanks always get aged water/ water from established tanks). You could do something similar for your least kilis.

[Widgets]

On 4/1/2022 at 9:32 PM, Torrey said:

If you are asking for my solution, when I discovered the danio fry last year I used it as an excuse to buy not one, but two new 10 gallon tanks, lol.

I was quoting your post for the continuation of the microfauna discussion. 

I'd be more inclined to get a 20long than a pair of 10g's, but space is an issue. My QT is a 10g. The only spot I could put it now was below the 37g, but it is too low. Maintenance and observation is a pain.

I'm thinking about an outdoor pond for the fry growout, but observation would be even more difficult. 

Putting the Least Killifish in the holding tank would get them into the same water that they will ultimately stay in, and free up the QT for me to figure out where to put it.

The other option would be to move the fry to someting that I setup quick. I can move some water and plants from their current tank, and cycled sponges from the QT, but I don't think it would be as robust as their current tank. I also consider that they currently share a tank with new to me shrimp and one of them is now berries. I don't want to disturb the shrimp too much with a big water change.

The holding tank let's me move the Least Killifish and kick the fry decision down the road when they are bigger.

[Torrey]

On 4/1/2022 at 8:08 PM, Widgets said:

I was quoting your post for the continuation of the microfauna discussion. 

I'd be more inclined to get a 20long than a pair of 10g's, but space is an issue. My QT is a 10g. The only spot I could put it now was below the 37g, but it is too low. Maintenance and observation is a pain.

I'm thinking about an outdoor pond for the fry growout, but observation would be even more difficult. 

Putting the Least Killifish in the holding tank would get them into the same water that they will ultimately stay in, and free up the QT for me to figure out where to put it.

The other option would be to move the fry to someting that I setup quick. I can move some water and plants from their current tank, and cycled sponges from the QT, but I don't think it would be as robust as their current tank. I also consider that they currently share a tank with new to me shrimp and one of them is now berries. I don't want to disturb the shrimp too much with a big water change.

The holding tank let's me move the Least Killifish and kick the fry decision down the road when they are bigger.

Def move the least Killi to the holding tank, everyone else will thank you.

[Widgets]

I picked up the Large Fluval Breeding and Holding Box to hang off the Least Shrimptopia tank. I cleared out the QT into the holding tank. I originally put into quarantine the 4 female and 1 male Least Killifish that I caught in the canal in my backyard.  Later, I added the Guppy fry that was harassing the smaller Zebra Danio fry. I had seen as many as three Least Killifish fry in the QT, but since I added some floating stems it has been difficult to really see them. Tonight I pulled out 11 fry. I cannot get a good picture of them in the holding tank. I will try in the morning. 

I will also be able to check the QT better when the mulm settles.

[Widgets]

I found another fry in the QT this morning, but now there are only 7 fry in the holding tank with this new addition.

I was planning on moving some of the floating plants to the holding tank this morning. As I was kicking myself for not doing it last night, I noticed a Least Killifish swimming amongst the Zebra Danios. I'll be playing "Wheres Waldo" this morning. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Widgets
Stupid typos

[Widgets]

I think I have them all rounded up. It is hard to count them because they just won't stay still. I added a mesh cover over the output grate to try to keep them contained. 

while playing "Where's Waldo"  I see a fish that doesn't seem to look like the Zebra Danios. What could this be?