noob brown algae question

[Bigmike349]

I have a fluval flex 15 tank.  the only mods I made were adding a heater, swapping in a low flow nozzle from lid propz, and swapping the carbon in the filter for seachem purigen (to remove tannins leaching from my logs).  I have a black diamond blasting sand medium grit substrate with a stone and 2 logs I got from my local aquarium store.  I added aquarium co-op root tabs and I dose with easy green weekly.  I have well water with a softener so I dosed with seachem equilibrium to raise the hardness at the recommendation of my local aquarium store.  I started cycling my first tank on 1/29 with plants (Brazilian waterweed, water wisteria, and American shore weed) by the end of February I was fully cycled and added the first tank inhabitants, 4 amano shrimp and 4 cardinal tetras.  I do plan to get mare cardinal tetras but they only had 4 in the store when I got them.  when I added the shrimp and fish I had a slight algal bloom but now things have gotten out of hand.  I find myself pulling out clumps of it daily and it still looks like the picture below at the end of the day.  light is on 8 hours a day.  my water wisteria is doing great but the Brazilian water weed got choked out by the bloom and I had to take out a bunch of it that was beginning to rot.  my American shore weed in the front is completely covered but still seems ok.  all my water parameters are normal.  

if I'm not mistaken this brown algae is actually diatoms and will eventually resolve itself but I was wondering if there is anything I should be doing differently. should I stop dosing with easy green?  also I plan on adding more plants and I was wondering if I should add more root tabs or not before adding them as it might contribute to more brown algae.  

pictured is the initial setup, the start of the brown algae bloom, and how it looks currently with tons of wispy brown algae everywhere

[FrozenFins]

You can try vaccuming some out with your siphon.

Also dim the light, and stop dosing ferts all together. once this algae problem has been resolved you can start dosing some more but at a limited amount. I like to go off by what the plants tell me. If it looks like they could use more nutreints ill dose, however if they look happy i wont dose at all.

[Brandon p]

TrY less light hours and try adding liquid carbon I think from co-op Sells liquid carbon. I have used hydrogen peroxide with a big syringe in a small needle that you can get at like Rural King or tractor supply if they have the blunt tip needles are the best that way you can accidentally poke yourself. I personally would be very careful if you choose hydrogen peroxide  side because it can kill your plants you have to be very careful and that’s why used syringe and use a little tiny bit in the start you may wanna just try widow one little tiny spot with not much hydrogen Peroxide. I would definitely adjust the light down to six hours maybe eight depending on the help of your other plants and  try easy carbon first from aquarium co-op

Edited March 10, 2022 by Brandon p

[JoeQ]

More plants, and build your cleanup crew!! Ottos and nerite snails, you also failed to mention your water change frequency and fert schedule (or i miss read) . You might want to space out the fertilizer instead of 1 big dose. I'm also not a fan of the blanket reduce light matra. Make sure your lights are on a timer, but if your plants are opening and closing in sink with the lights there is no point to modifying!  Plants need light, it makes them grow! The best way to avoid algea is to grow healthy plants! 

[Brandon p]

G do Plants do need light but much less that people think. There is a a certain amount of light that makes plants grow at there best. To much light will cause plants to grow to fast. What does that mean. One thing in stem plants is the distance between the leaves is greater. That means less leaves per plant. Less leaves means than less sugars are produced to help the plant grow more faster. Same is true for land plants. The reason the reduction in light is often recommended? And I do agree it is not always the answer but for beginners and tanks that get out of control is because algae is very efficient at using light and Nutrients to out compete the plants you want to grow. 6 to 8 hours is more than enough light if it is Quality light( niether of us mentioned that but if you have poor light you would need more. In agree that water changes will help l. I would also stop doseing the water column with fertilizer band only use root tabs with the plants you have. I think @JoeQagree more than disagree. I would not turn the Intensity of the light down but limit the time. I personally think regular carbon works better to remove tannis than an a produce like sea Sean that has stuff added. I saw you changing for the carbon, I use a one of my favorite filter tool for things to fine for filter bags pantyhose. Carbon needs to be changed somewhat often. I only use carbon for tannin removal. Now that carbon is different than use carbon. I agree with Joe that your fish and Invertebrate selection will not help the cardinals are not gotinv to control otos and many others could help. The shrimp with tend the Algae and keep it healthy. Look at so some fish that will eat the algae and snails will help. Snails are personal because some of them you could have for ever. I would not get Mobile Asian Snails as the can go crazy. Joe is good with the nerlie snails will not reproduce in that tank. I like ramshorn  but they can 

[JoeQ]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:24 AM, Brandon p said:

G do Plants do need light but much less that people think. There is a a certain amount of light that makes plants grow at there best. To much light will cause plants to grow to fast. What does that mean. One thing in stem plants is the distance between the leaves is greater. That means less leaves per plant. Less leaves means than less sugars are produced to help the plant grow more faster. Same is true for land plants. The reason the reduction in light is often recommended? And I do agree it is not always the answer but for beginners and tanks that get out of control is because algae is very efficient at using light and Nutrients to out compete the plants you want to grow. 6 to 8 hours is more than enough light if it is Quality light( niether of us mentioned that but if you have poor light you would need more. In agree that water changes will help l. I would also stop doseing the water column with fertilizer band only use root tabs with the plants you have. I think @JoeQagree more than disagree. I would not turn the Intensity of the light down but limit the time. I personally think regular carbon works better to remove tannis than an a produce like sea Sean that has stuff added. I saw you changing for the carbon, I use a one of my favorite filter tool for things to fine for filter bags pantyhose. Carbon needs to be changed somewhat often. I only use carbon for tannin removal. Now that carbon is different than use carbon. I agree with Joe that your fish and Invertebrate selection will not help the cardinals are not gotinv to control otos and many others could help. The shrimp with tend the Algae and keep it healthy. Look at so some fish that will eat the algae and snails will help. Snails are personal because some of them you could have for ever. I would not get Mobile Asian Snails as the can go crazy. Joe is good with the nerlie snails will not reproduce in that tank. I like ramshorn  but they can 

We probably agree more than disagree. I just think different than most. The OP already stated he has his light on 8 hours, and upon looking closer the plants appeared to be reacting well to the light (in the beginning) but at the point we are now cutting the light and modifying his fertilizer regimin seems futile. At this point id do a huge waterchange, scrape/clean algea, salvage whats salvageable and start over with more fast growing plants!! Starting a tank with a lot of plants is incredibly easier than trying to regrow damaged plants alone. 

[Torrey]

@Bigmike349 your tank is still in baby stages. The plants have to finish adjusting to your parameters (takes 2 - 3 months), the tank won't finish cycling through various algal stages until about month 6, and most clean up crews won't have the stable food supplies and stable parameters until somewhere between 6 to 12 months. Nerites and otos won't really eat and thrive on commercial foods, they **need** reliable and consistent food supplies (which is why most people struggle to keep them alive for a long time.

Looking at your tank, you got off to a great start and then got a little impatient, and that happens to all of us.

Joe gave you one option: essentially start over. A lot of people go that route. 

I'm a more pragmatic tankkeeper. I'm keeping water, it's a chemistry thing. Once I get the water growing healthy green things, I'll start adding other things. Like snails. Ramshorns, pond, and bladder snails are all great at eating plant melt detritus and most algae.

Unless you are running CO2, lights being on for more than 4 hours at a time don't really promote more growth. I recommend looking at some of Guppysnail's journal, or my Walstad inspired journal, or Streetwise's journals, to see how cutting light back helps limit algae growth, and how a siesta period in a non-CO2 tank can boost plant growth. 

You actually have some great growth. A toothbrush will help get most of the algae out. If the light is on a timer, I would try setting two different photoperiods for 3 hours each, and a 4 hour break in between. Clean the algae out with a toothbrush and water change. Post your parameters, including TDS, GH and kH if you know them. Maybe some close-ups of the plants after you clear some of the algae out.

If you are like me, and tank maintenance is spoon dependent/pain level dependent, just clean the algae off the plants. The rest of it will start dying back as you cut back on feeding. Test where your nitrates are, most new tanks don't need heavy ferts for plants as the plants begin to adjust to new water parameters, or to submerged growth.

It feels a lot more frustrating right now, because it looked gorgeous on the first photo. Consider this the gangly teenage stage of scaped aquariums, it only lasts for a few months. Cut back on ferts and fish food, split up your photoperiods, and focus on water quality for fish and plants. The rest will start to balance out.

 

[Brandon p]

@Torrey why 4 hours is that enough light for the plants to make more sugars that than are going to use. In my research less than six hours for most plants for periods of time has the opposite effect where CO2is being given off and not being used to produce sugars and slowly breaks down of the plants begansto add to a bad situation. The lower respiration of the plants doesn’t allow for plants to bluish up energy stores and the plant starts to steal sugars from Elsewhere in the plant to grow. It doesn’t look like the light they have is top of the line. I’m all for cutting back on the light and a few other things I mentioned before 4 hours just stood out there . 

[Torrey]

On 3/10/2022 at 10:39 PM, Brandon p said:

@Torrey why 4 hours is that enough light for the plants to make more sugars that than are going to use. In my research less than six hours for most plants for periods of time has the opposite effect where CO2is being given off and not being used to produce sugars and slowly breaks down of the plants begansto add to a bad situation. The lower respiration of the plants doesn’t allow for plants to bluish up energy stores and the plant starts to steal sugars from Elsewhere in the plant to grow. It doesn’t look like the light they have is top of the line. I’m all for cutting back on the light and a few other things I mentioned before 4 hours just stood out there . 

When a tank is not using CO2 injection, the plants are the most efficient with photosynthesis in 4 hour chunks. Even if I hadn't read most of what was documented with water tests in the NC Aquarium Plant Keepers group, it is actually pretty much in alignment with what I saw living in meso and south america: most aquatic plants aren't in direct sunlight for long periods of time.

The water tests that were done showed that when lights turned on CO2 saturation levels had slowly risen over the course of the night, and max CO2 was measured about 4 hours after the lights turned off (hence recommendation for a 3 to 4 hour siesta period). Levels got their lowest about 4 hours after the lights turned on. The idea is, leave the lights on long enough to benefit the plants, but not long enough that the plants are no longer at max efficiency, leaving things like algae to start benefiting. Obviously, this is not applicable for people injecting CO2 into the tank.

For those of us who are going a bit more low tech? It can be a game changer.

I need to take new pictures of my tanks, this one is of the 4' I did for my spouse, back in January after I removed a 5 gallon bucket of plants from the tank. I did have a cyanobacteria problem in this tank, because TDS had gotten too high. Now I am using ZeroWater for top-offs during the week (zero TDS) and contrary to my expectations plants took off in growth thanks to a very high density of endlers. I am now removing a 5 gallon bucket of plants every 2 weeks. Lights are on 10 am to 2 pm, then 6 pm to 10 pm.

[Brandon p]

Thank you. That was a very respectful answer that I  understand. I have extensive knowledge in land based plants and grasses. There where my major and nearly 20 years experience. I did some(very limited)research which is so hard to find on the subject that why I asked. I have a greater understanding and now  know who to ask about plant questions 

[Torrey]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:03 AM, Brandon p said:

Thank you. That was a very respectful answer that I  understand. I have extensive knowledge in land based plants and grasses. There where my major and nearly 20 years experience. I did some(very limited)research which is so hard to find on the subject that why I asked. I have a greater understanding and now  know who to ask about plant questions 

Some questions I can answer really well, some questions I can answer if my post TIA brain is co-operting. Mostly, I write down everything I can in here, so when I forget something I can find it. ::shrug::

My partner and I joke that every time we level up on something, we have to let something else go. I have leveled up on my fishkeeping. I let go a lot of my language skills. My new docs think I am doing great, until they talk to someone who knew me pre-TIA and discover how much I have lost, easy recall wise. My latin recall is gone. Most of my foreign language recall is gone. I can type better than I can speak (most of the days) because I can look up correct spelling. I can't see as well (unless seeing in triplicate is a desired skill), but I can listen to my plants and my fish and meet their needs and when I run into a problem I am like a determined terrier after a rat until I can track down what the issue was... like TDS causing my  cyanobacteria issue, which Mmiller helped identify the root cause.

If I don't know the answer, I will say so. If I remmeber how to search for the data, I share that info, too.

[AndreaW]

I love reading through threads here because I learn so much from everyone. I also have a new tank setup and am new to aquatic plants (but not fish-keeping) which I'm struggling to figure out. Houseplants and gardens come easy to me.  I'm thinking I need to back off on my ferts and lights as well.

[JoeQ]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:53 PM, AndreaW said:

I love reading through threads here because I learn so much from everyone. I also have a new tank setup and am new to aquatic plants (but not fish-keeping) which I'm struggling to figure out. Houseplants and gardens come easy to me.  I'm thinking I need to back off on my ferts and lights as well.

Andrea, looking at it as keeping water (parameters) that just so happens to be ideal for fish and plants was a huge breakthrough moment for me. It really simplified things. 

[AndreaW]

On 3/11/2022 at 5:19 PM, JoeQ said:

Andrea, looking at it as keeping water (parameters) that just so happens to be ideal for fish and plants was a huge breakthrough moment for me. It really simplified things. 

I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the nutrients part. I can tell in houseplants and my garden when a plant needs iron, calcium, etc. but now that I see plants underwater, I can't figure out if they need more nutrients or if it's typical new plant/new tank reactions happening.

[JoeQ]

The fertilizer aspect is my weakest topic within the hobby.... Ideally going from a all in 1 to a npk & micro fertilizer day will bring me clearity. My advice, look up a deficiency chart, study it and watch your tank! Over time youll start to notice things you didn't see befire

[Torrey]

On 3/11/2022 at 5:23 PM, AndreaW said:

I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the nutrients part. I can tell in houseplants and my garden when a plant needs iron, calcium, etc. but now that I see plants underwater, I can't figure out if they need more nutrients or if it's typical new plant/new tank reactions happening.

There are more similarities between houseplants and aquatic plants than differences. A lot of folx find it easier to grow both in the tank. If the pothos or dracaena or lucky bamboo (or I have roses, philodendron, sprouts) shows a deficiency, your aquatic plants have the same deficiency. Spider plants are helpful, too.

[Football Hooligan]

Hi BigMike,

I am a noob to the hobby and suffered from the same problem you did.

On March 1 2022  I started a Fluval Spec 5 tank for my daughter's Betta fish.  I used Carib-Sea Eco complete substrate and Seachem root tabs.  Planted 3 Valisneria and 2 Micro Swords.  Dosed Easy Green 1x per week and used the stock light that came with the Spec 5.

Within 2 weeks I had a HORRENDOUS hair algae problem just like yours.  I was using my gravel vac and water changes every couple of days to try and keep it under control.  Nothing worked.

Then I stumbled upon one of Cory's Aquarium Co-Op videos about lighting, and in it he made a passing comment that blue light just serves to grow algae.  Since I'm sure my Spec 5's stock light has blue in its RGB mix (duh), I decided to swap it out and instead run a Fluval Aquasky 2.0 12W 15-24" model for a bit.  I was saving this Aquasky 2.0 for a Fluval Flex 15 that I'm building, but I thought I'd see if it could make a difference on the Spec 5 algae issue since the Aquasky is programmable.  I programmed my Aquasky 2.0 with an 8 hour daylight period with NO blue light and NO blue light at the nighttime cycle.  I couldn't believe the results....

ALGAE PROBLEM SOLVED!  My hair algae is now 98% gone and all I did was eliminate blue light from my lighting schedule.  Cory was right, cutting the blue light cut my algae by unbelievable proportions.

I plan to get another Aquasky 2.0 for my Flex 15, remove the stock light and silicone the Aquasky to the lid.  Once I get my Flex 15 up and going I hopefully won't have the algae issue.

To further test my theory I removed blue light on an Aquasky 2.0 schedule I'm running on a 10-year old 10 gallon tank and I saw the same result.  Algae growth is way way down. 

Over time perhaps I'll be able to add some blue light back in as the Spec 5 gets fully cycled and I add some clean up crew friends - I did want to add shrimp to the Spec 5 at some point.  Shrimp would be advantageous for keeping Algae in better control than what I was seeing without shrimp, at least that's my hope.

I know you might not want to drop ~$65.00 to solve your algae problem by buying an Aquasky 2.0.  However I gotta think Cory is right - if there's a way you can cut the blue light it will help eliminate your algae issue as it did mine. 

Best of luck to you and to all in the hobby!