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Request for feedback on intended stocking for large aquarium


anewbie
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I will be setting up an aquarium that is approx 8ft long 4 ft wide and 22 inches high. The target water condition is 30TDS; kh around 1 and gh around 2; temp around 82-84.

The stocking i was considering include:

10-14 GBR

40 cardinals

40 rummy nose

8 winemilleri

16-20 sterbai

Maybe a few pleco (not sure what type - maybe L397, L204, one or two of the gold nugget,some extra lemon bn...)

Maybe 4 Dicrossus maculatus if ph is low enough 

Maybe red lizard whiptail, smudge spot cory.

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The GBR are not optional and I'd like to include the winemilleri unless there is a good reason they can't co-exist with the GBR. Everything else is optional.

Not sure if many people have kept winemilleri or some of the similar geo. altifrons or sveni would be alternative.

THanks!

 

Edited by anewbie
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Wow, sounds like a terrific tank. Share some pictures along the way please!

That list sounds great too. Well, except maybe the red tail catfish which will end up being the only thing in the tank pretty quickly. 

Also you could probably double or triple the amount of rummy nose and cardinals and be fine. At over 430g 40 small tetras will disappear. 
 

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Willimeri will definitely eat cardinal tetras and probably rummynose if they can catch them.

Your dimensions would be a ~720 gallons when full and besides your Willimeri your tank would look empty. 
 

You would need at least 120+ sterbai cory fish to have them be noticeable. You would also need at least 500 small schooling fish like tetras to have any presence in a tank that big. 
 

you could do a bigger tetra like congo and have like 100 to have noticeable presence.

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On 2/26/2022 at 12:00 AM, ScottieB said:

 

 

On 2/26/2022 at 12:19 AM, 2000tetras said:

Willimeri will definitely eat cardinal tetras and probably rummynose if they can catch them.

Your dimensions would be a ~720 gallons when full and besides your Willimeri your tank would look empty. 
 

You would need at least 120+ sterbai cory fish to have them be noticeable. You would also need at least 500 small schooling fish like tetras to have any presence in a tank that big. 
 

you could do a bigger tetra like congo and have like 100 to have noticeable presence.

Are you sure willimeri will eat cardinals and rummnose? seriouslyfish suggest they will not despite the size difference. Also the vairious 'aquarium' calculators compute the volume as 438 gallons.

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The willimeri will probably not actively seek out the tetras but may eat one if the opportunity arises. The school will slowly dwindle though over time, those small tetras live a hard and fast life. I had a similar experience in an 8 foot long 300 discus tank and every few months I would add another 20 cardinals or rummy nose. 
Near as I can calculate that’s about 430ish gallons not accounting for displacement from wood, gravel, etc and not filling it to the brim. 

edit:typo

Edited by ScottieB
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On 2/26/2022 at 8:42 AM, ScottieB said:

The willeri will probably not actively seek out the tetras but may eat one if the opportunity arises. The school will slowly dwindle though over time, those small tetras live a hard and fast life. I had a similar experience in an 8 foot long 300 discus tank and every few months I would add another 20 cardinals or rummy nose. 
Near as I can calculate that’s about 430ish gallons not accounting for displacement from wood, gravel, etc and not filling it to the brim. 
 

What is your basis for saying that they would eat tetra? do you have experience with these fishes or can you quote another source? I know they are a lot larger but seriouslyfish suggest they are not able to eat such so I'm confused by the conflicting information.

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I also have concerns about any Geophagus since they’re omnivores and have large mouths.  I think your smaller fish would be in danger from them.  Same with the red tail catfish - did you mean Phractocephalus hemioliopterus?  They will also eat anything they think will fit in their mouth, are piscivores (fish eaters, plus more) and get HUGE, like 6 feet long, huge!  Did you mean red-tailed black shark - Epalzeorhynchos bicolor from Thailand?

The rest of your list sounds great except the numbers on your tetras.  I would at least triple or more on those numbers eventually in order to have them noticeable at all.  I have about 30 each of Kubotai rasboras, ember tetras, and chili rasboras in my 100 G and it’s nowhere near enough of each species to get the visual impact I wanted.  I barely see the chilis, in particular.  I’ll be adding more of each, I just need to get some fish moved on through my QT tanks first.  The Kubotai are the boldest and school around when the mood takes them, same with the embers.  The chilis just hide in the plants.  I’m pretty sure I’ll need to about triple their numbers to get the effect I want.  And that’s in a 100 gallon tank.  Your planned tetras (which are great, by the way) are proportionately larger, but you’ll need to build up their numbers to at least triple what you listed in order to get much visual impact.

How exciting, though!  Make a couple adjustments and plan to find a source of higher quantities (look at AquaBid) on your tetras, and you’ll have a gorgeous tank!

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On 2/26/2022 at 9:00 AM, Odd Duck said:

I also have concerns about any Geophagus since they’re omnivores and have large mouths.  I think your smaller fish would be in danger from them.  Same with the red tail catfish - did you mean Phractocephalus hemioliopterus?  They will also eat anything they think will fit in their mouth, are piscivores (fish eaters, plus more) and get HUGE, like 6 feet long, huge!  Did you mean red-tailed black shark - Epalzeorhynchos bicolor from Thailand?

The rest of your list sounds great except the numbers on your tetras.  I would at least triple or more on those numbers eventually in order to have them noticeable at all.  I have about 30 each of Kubotai rasboras, ember tetras, and chili rasboras in my 100 G and it’s nowhere near enough of each species to get the visual impact I wanted.  I barely see the chilis, in particular.  I’ll be adding more of each, I just need to get some fish moved on through my QT tanks first.  The Kubotai are the boldest and school around when the mood takes them, same with the embers.  The chilis just hide in the plants.  I’m pretty sure I’ll need to about triple their numbers to get the effect I want.  And that’s in a 100 gallon tank.  Your planned tetras (which are great, by the way) are proportionately larger, but you’ll need to build up their numbers to at least triple what you listed in order to get much visual impact.

How exciting, though!  Make a couple adjustments and plan to find a source of higher quantities (look at AquaBid) on your tetras, and you’ll have a gorgeous tank!

I meant red lizard whiptail which is quite small; not red tail catfish which I would never keep. I'm a bit confused on the geo eating tetra  since seriouslyfish description indicate they would not eat fishes more than a few millimeters in size and they have digestive issue with such if they were to eat them.

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On 2/26/2022 at 8:50 AM, anewbie said:

i meant red lizard whiptail.

That makes so much more sense!  Those should be an excellent choice as far as compatibility since they are very much bottom feeders and stay small, but they are excellent hiders.  You might need a fair number of them in order to notice them.

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On 2/26/2022 at 9:04 AM, Odd Duck said:

That makes so much more sense!  Those should be an excellent choice as far as compatibility since they are very much bottom feeders and stay small, but they are excellent hiders.  You might need a fair number of them in order to notice them.

Do you have any experience with the winemilleri or know anyone who has kept them. I want to resolve the issue if they would in fact eat the tetras...

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On 2/26/2022 at 9:08 AM, Colu said:

I think a big group of Columbian blue tetras maybe 60 would look stunning in a tank that size rather than the rummy nose or cardinals and they are bigger so I don't think the winemillieri would eat them 

Screenshot_20211026-001620~2.png

Screenshot_20211026-001707~2.png

They are nice looking fishes but if I am not mistaken they are not temperature compatible.

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On 2/26/2022 at 9:03 AM, anewbie said:

I meant red lizard whiptail which is quite small; not red tail catfish which I would never keep. I'm a bit confused on the geo eating tetra  since seriouslyfish description indicate they would not eat fishes more than a few millimeters in size and they have digestive issue with such if they were to eat them.

I don’t think they are going to actively hunt them, but I would bet that they would opportunistically snack if a tetra bumbled it’s way into their face.  If a tetra comes in reach of a hungry Geophagus, I’d bet it could get snapped up.  They typically eat small crustaceans so I don’t know why a small fish would be problematic to it’s digestion.  I have not kept any Geophagus, but all their descriptions I’m finding say omnivore, and they get up to 8”, so . . . . . . I think you might be taking chances of gradually diminishing groups.  It’s going to be hard to tell when relatively small tetras die in such a big tank (which is why I have no idea of how many chilis I have in my 100 G - I know how many I put in there, and I’ve never found a single body, but I don’t see very many of them).

You might be safe enough, but other sites specifically say large tetras, which I don’t think of rummy noses or cardinals as “large” tetras, they’re more mediums, to me.  I didn’t find any other site besides that mentioned them not being able to handle larger prey items.  Hopefully someone will speak up that has experience with the species vs. my speculation based on size and that ‘omnivore” categorization.

I think the rest of your plan is absolutely solid, but build into your plan higher numbers on the tetras.  It will be worth it!

On 2/26/2022 at 9:06 AM, anewbie said:

Do you have any experience with the winemilleri or know anyone who has kept them. I want to resolve the issue if they would in fact eat the tetras...

No experience at all.  I’ve read a bit about them since they’re so interesting, but I’ve never kept any.  I hope someone who has experience can chime in for you!

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On 2/26/2022 at 8:44 AM, anewbie said:

What is your basis for saying that they would eat tetra? do you have experience with these fishes or can you quote another source? I know they are a lot larger but seriouslyfish suggest they are not able to eat such so I'm confused by the conflicting information.

So they will probably not eat your tetras and will likely have no interest in them. I would believe seriouslyfish for sure. But I don’t think anyone can definitely predict the behavior of an individual fish. I would still have no problem with your stocking list (except the red tail). I think Odd Duck said it well above. 
I look forward to seeing it all come together! 

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On 2/26/2022 at 2:56 PM, Patrick_G said:

Murphy’s tank is slightly smaller than yours. It’s stocked with Rummy Nose that have grown really large and a species of Geo. Maybe @brandonnaturallycan comment on how they interact. 

I've been searching quite a bit after reading seroiuslyfish and i'm finding mix reports. Altifrons seems to actively hunt smaller tetras but some of the other species won't touch them. However I can find almost nothing on winemilleri (or my second choice sveni). I know they are large fishes but it seems some of the large geo don't care much for fish dinners.

-

Ok sveni will definitely eat tetra.

Edited by anewbie
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On 2/26/2022 at 7:28 PM, anewbie said:

I've been searching quite a bit after reading seroiuslyfish and i'm finding mix reports. Altifrons seems to actively hunt smaller tetras but some of the other species won't touch them. However I can find almost nothing on winemilleri (or my second choice sveni). I know they are large fishes but it seems some of the large geo don't care much for fish dinners.

Maybe start a separate topic asking specifically for more info about your Geo. winemilleri or sveni?  That might bring in more expertise and experience for you.  Post a link to this discussion so everyone knows where you’re coming from.

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