Plant Nutrients

[Guppysnail]

So this new side journal may go something like…

Well @#$& that didn’t work

but hopefully it will be…

Woohoo I did it! 🎉🍾

A little background.  I’m a fish girl who likes plants not a planted tank aquascaper with some fish. I’m all about the fish and breeding them and raising fry totally not for profit just for fun. I like plants because they look nice but more because they serve an essential function of cleaning my nasty tap water. Range from tap on nitrate is 20-25 nitrate has been known to hit 30-35 at different times. RO/DI or remineralized distilled is not an option. 
 

Normally I can keep my tanks around 30-40 sometimes get down to 15-20 on good tap weeks. I always have fry or juveniles in most of my 7 tanks (8 including scrap for scape tank no fish). I normally have fantastic luck with plants living where I do those nitrates are agricultural runoff so my tap is essentially easy green low phosphate and apparently low iron (thank you @Seattle_Aquarist for both the fertilizer runoff and iron deficiency info). Having fry water changes are heavy and often. I’ve owned this house for over 20 years so it’s just a routine part of keeping my tanks anymore. 
 

I have never used any fertilizer in my tanks. My water is crazy hard (higher than api chart 13-15 drops average). With relatively high kh. Copper already at .52 on average but my shrimp and snails do fine. Just enough phosphate that if I don’t miss a water change it keeps green spot algae “mostly” at bay. I grow only minor algae and my critters feast on most of it. My water is very high silicates so brown diatoms any time I make changes which for me is often.  Chemicals of any type for life in general I detest (I have allergies or sensitivities to most). So adding anything to my tanks is crazy scary to me as a whole and other than conditioner I just don’t do it. Thanks to @Torrey taking the time to explain each ingredient in fertilizer and what they did and why each individual thing was not harmful my fish I have been pondering it. I even ordered a few a couple months ago but chickened out using them in tank so just use them in a plant recovery grow out tank 🙄.  What I ordered was seachem phosphate, potassium and flourish. Flourish had nitrate and more copper than I was ok with. 
 

Recent things brought about my desire to add individual needed nutrients. My plants outgrew y available phosphate even 3x a week 50% water change fry tanks. Bursitis flare threw my wc game off and I was testing a new nitrate test so wanted to see how it registered at higher. I added a second strip light to my 29 & 40B to compensate for well growing tall plants that were causing shade…yes you just heard that stupidity. Already maxed out on available phosphate yet we pushed plants further 🤦‍♀️🙄. Guess what predicatably happened…GSA EVERYWHERE. Brown starving spots on plants and my pothos. 
 

I had also started using terra cotta pots with some gravel in to plant plants. All went great …until it did not because I do not use root tabs and not enough flow the roots started rotting. 
 

So here is where I am starting from. My new growth already now that I’m back on track…

My Alternanthera Reiniki Rosenervig-AR not as vibrant red.  My ludwiga broad leaf (ps I don’t know most scientific names) Not as stunning pink and smaller leaves  These are the two plants I’m going to focus on in these two tanks  everything else is growing fine save for iron deficiency in my anubias but they are still flowering.  
 

GOALS:  get back to vibrancy and consistent growth even with missed wc because I’m old they happen  Reason for goal nitrate reduction as nitrate go up exponentially when missed wc causes plants to stop growing properly.  
 

STEPS TO START: Purigen in hopes of removing organic waste prior to it breaking down fully in my tank  I’m hoping this works better than polyfill as a mechanical helper.  I have chosen GLA green leaf aquariums dry ( thank you @Mmiller2001 for the crazy inexpensive recommend). phosphate and potassium (I hate paying a company 5x more for them to add water and dilute prior to sending it to me I can do that myself 😁 I’m frugal!)  i did order the seachem iron  once I use that I will also switch to the GLA brand .  

I prep water in tubs so I started with seachem phosphate today until my GLA order gets here  2.5 ml per 20 gallons (1/2 dose)  I am only treating the added water and only for the amount of water I’m adding  I don’t want an algae farm breaking out from shocking my tank with more than it can use until plants recover a bit more.  When the seachem iron arrives Seattle aquarists recommend 1/2 cap per 25 gallons so I will start there.  
 

Im keeping this side journal because I have goals for this project and don’t want my info lost in my Chatty Cathy journal 🤣  Wonderful plant nerms feel free to add tips or suggestions  your tank pics would help me when you make suggestions so I can see your results and ask you more questions 🤗  I have zero scraping and layout skills so obviously have no shot (or dedicated plants patients) to have the beauties the greats like @Mmiller2001have but definitely want plants that can do the job when I can’t not plants that fail without me when I need them most.

less stunning pink smaller ludwiga new growth 

AR I TOOK SUBSTRATE OUT SO IT COULD GET NUTRIENTS (I do better suction cupping things to walls 🤷‍♀️) I cut out most of the gsa affected and condensed 4 cups to 2 

gsa affected the stems have already started spouting new shoots and will be cut once they grow out to make new plants as the affected and deficient will not recover  the anubias leaves gsa hit have already been removed  the plant is still flowering at least P. LIGHTS ARE ALREADY OUT FOR THE NIGHT SO I WILL GRAB BETTER CURRENT TANK PICS TOMORROW. HAPPY ADVENTURES TRY SOMETHING NEW

 

 

 

 

 

[lefty o]

im no plant guru, but the iron supplement should help the reds out a good bit. the other plants like it too, but the reds seems to really require it to do their best.

[Guppysnail]

Forgot to mention I do not use CO2 high side of mid flow. Surface agitation across the entire surface. Ph 7.6-7.8. 
here is what I ordered. CRAZY inexpensive 😁

[Guppysnail]

This journaling gives me an opportunity to rethink things to get them into understandable wording. There was a fundamental flaw in my way of thinking of taking this in baby steps doing only one individual nutrient at a time to start. If any of them are missing the plant won’t preform correctly so I need to definitely do phosphate and iron immediately. I don’t have the iron yet but should soon. Potassium is usually low in most water and fish need potassium so it won’t hurt them….Can anyone tell me if I should not add it just to be safe?  I have on occasion seen pin holes but never consistently. Is there a test for potassium and iron I could not find one.  So last night I removed 5 gallons added a dose of potassium for the amount of water I changed yesterday and returned it to the tank. The rest of the purigen is here and going in today. I’m not trying to prove or disprove anything just get results so several changes at once I’m not worried about sticking to any scientific method. 
Phosphate in both tanks was 2 this morning. And these are my nitrate readings.
 Side note. I’m using the Hanna high range marine checker supposedly only good for salt water. After seeing a video that said it does work in freshwater by someone named Kevin Novak Ph.d I looked into it. I don’t know if this guy is reputable or not or what his degree is in so I tested it for 7 days on all 7 tanks against api liquid and coop test strips as well as seachem reactive agents(6days I ran out). It matches all 3 and works in my water. I don’t care about scientifically accurate because I can barely tell the difference in api colors and in different light it reads different etc. I just wanted a consistent numerical value vs waiting 20 or more points before I could tell a difference.

40B   

29

[AndreaW]

On 2/24/2022 at 8:36 AM, Guppysnail said:

Is there a test for potassium and iron I could not find one.

API has a potassium test (found mine on amazon). Iron is much harder to come by.

@Guppysnail I'm sorry, I was thinking of Phosphate (not potassium).

Edited February 24, 2022 by AndreaW

[Guppysnail]

On 2/24/2022 at 10:53 AM, AndreaW said:

API has a potassium test (found mine on amazon). Iron is much harder to come by.

Can you send me the link. I just looked again on Amazon and nothing 😕

[AndreaW]

@Guppysnail ~ Salifert makes a freshwater potassium kit.

[Guppysnail]

On 2/24/2022 at 10:58 AM, AndreaW said:

@Guppysnail ~ Salifert makes a freshwater potassium kit.

I seen that but it only measures from 250-470. Im not even certain how much I’m supposed to have 🤣🤣🤣 I was just wanting to make sure there is “some” but not “way too much”. 🤣🤣🤣 now everyone sees what a detailed sciencey person I am…NOT 🤣

[AndreaW]

@Guppysnail No, there is a freshwater one. I don't know if I can post links or screenshots to a competitor store, but this is what it looks like: 

[Guppysnail]

@AndreaWThe reef is the only one that shows for me when I searched. I just looked again. I know we are allowed to post Amazon links. My old tablet just does not work to do that I get error messages 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Guppysnail

[AndreaW]

I found it at another aquarium supplier... AquaCave? I don't know anything about them and have never ordered from them so I can't vouch for them at all.

[Guppysnail]

On 2/24/2022 at 11:22 AM, AndreaW said:

I found it at another aquarium supplier... AquaCave? I don't know anything about them and have never ordered from them so I can't vouch for them at all.

I seen that and one other I was not familiar with. I don’t order from places I don’t know. 

[Guppysnail]

Sad state of post bursitis overgrown tank. 29. My elodea is opportunistic and whenever any plants do poorly it hogs up everything and goes bananas. All my tiger lotus leaves are now at surface level instead of throughout the tank  I trimmed off all the gsa hit but don’t want to trim back anything else until the ludwiga recovers enough to eat some of the nitrates  I think this is the right approach  1st picture is what it looked like pre bursitis but I took 4 of the terra cotta pots out too crowded  2nd is now mess  

pre B ludwiga and AR

40B now I spilled gravel but cannot clean it up  I have these cuties all over the pace I don’t want to accidentally smoosh one because they have no fear of my hands

[Guppysnail]

Todays results and some questions 

29. Expected 45-50 nitrate based on my feeding and how it’s been running. Actual 41.6 nitrate  (I need to make a chart to track these 🙄)

I do not think my plants responded in just one day of phosphate and potassium) Phos reading still at 2 ppm so they only used what was in the food or decomposed in the tank.  I believe this may be from the purigen pack I added. 🤷‍♀️  Usually my cutoff for wc is 40 with fry in tank but 2 wk old guppy fry are not that extremely sensitive so I’m letting this go until tomorrows reading more explanation in a moment why.

40B 

Expected same 45-50 due to feeding the eating machine BN fry. Phos reading still at 2 ppm so they only used what was in the food or decomposed in the tank.  Was stunned nitrate 23.2 😲(verified yesterday and todays results using api liquid and coop strips to be certain). Again I do not believe this was rapid plant response that it not only did not increase it decreased  I have the same pothos and lucky bamboo in each the difference is I put 2 bags of purigen in the 40.
Today I’m adding another pack of purigen to the 29 to see what happens that’s why no wc. 
 

Here is my question @Mmiller2001 or anyone who understands this type of thing about dosing. Is my thinking correct? I’m thinking keep my dosing the same as long as I’m seeing 2ppm in the tank because it’s not being used to keep gsa at bay. Increase only if new gsa appears or if plants eat in to the 2ppm buffer. Or do plants perform better with a higher saturation of excess phos?  
 

I feel like a child trying to do calculus while still trying to learn long division. 🤣

[Mmiller2001]

Personally, I would dose. Through my reading and learning I came across a common consensus that tank generated nutrients never do quite as well as those who add nutrients via fertilizer. The why and how wasn't clear, but many folk agree with this statement. It probably has to do with limitations that might pop up between testing and dosing eliminates that possiblity.

[Guppysnail]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:09 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

Personally, I would dose. Through my reading and learning I came across a common consensus that tank generated nutrients never do quite as well as those who add nutrients via fertilizer. The why and how wasn't clear, but many folk agree with this statement. It probably has to do with limitations that might pop up between testing and dosing eliminates that possiblity.

I’m at 2ppm now. I’m using seachem phos until my dry gets here how much would you add to a 40 b please. Or what target ppm in tank would you shoot for?

[Mmiller2001]

https://rotalabutterfly.com/nutrient-calculator.php

I'm assuming the 40B has about 35 gallons in it. Try adding 1ppm to start. Adding 1ppm to 35 gallons looks like this. 

Adding 33.1 ml will bring the tank to 3ppm.

[Mmiller2001]

You mentioned that you premix water. After this dose and going forward, you just use the gallons of your storage and add the amount to raise the premixed water to the totals you want. 

If you want 3ppm in your tank. Make the premix water to 3ppm.

[Guppysnail]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:44 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

You mentioned that you premix water. After this dose and going forward, you just use the gallons of your storage and add the amount to raise the premixed water to the totals you want. 

If you want 3ppm in your tank. Make the premix water to 3ppm.

Awesome this is very helpful. Thank you. 

[Guppysnail]

yesterday dosed to 3? ppm phos the api goes from 2-5 so guessing added 2nd purigen bag
40b

day 3 no wc should have been 60. I like the purigen. I know my plants have started consuming again some new growth on a few ludwigia and a new red tiger lotus leaf greeted me this morning  even full health strong growth the plants don’t keep it this low  in 20+ years in this house I have never run out of nitrogen…that would be so lovely…dream big! 😊 
29 

added the second purigen bag yesterday but day 3 should be 50-60 so progress. I know it’s mostly the purigen. I added it to the other 5 tanks and I’m getting the same results. Only found this new growth though but this tank was in worse shape because it’s not fed as heavy

I’m doing 50% wc to replenish anything I’m not testing for and to keep the bacterial load down for my fry. I will redoes to 3ppm using the wonderful calculator and do a full bottle prescribed beginner dose of potassium. I hope my iron arrives today I would like this new growth to exhibit the deeper pinks and reds they used to maybe even better would be delightful. 

[Mmiller2001]

There's a guy I follow over on another site who explained that putting purigen in a dedicated reactor improved performance. It's worth a look if interested.

Page 33 about mid way down.

https://www.plantedtank.net/threads/90-gallon-custom.1278317/page-33

Edited February 26, 2022 by Mmiller2001

[Guppysnail]

On 2/26/2022 at 12:01 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

There's a guy I follow over on another site who explained that putting purigen in a dedicated reactor improved performance. It's worth a look if interested.

Page 33 about mid way down.

https://www.plantedtank.net/threads/90-gallon-custom.1278317/page-33

Thank you I will look into that this evening. 

[Guppysnail]

On 2/26/2022 at 12:01 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

There's a guy I follow over on another site who explained that putting purigen in a dedicated reactor improved performance. It's worth a look if interested.

Page 33 about mid way down.

https://www.plantedtank.net/threads/90-gallon-custom.1278317/page-33

That reactor looks awesome I see why it would work better. It gave me ideas. I have almost zero diy type skills and my fish room is a second floor bedroom that I’m out of space in. However do you think this would work to help clean my tap.  I have quite a few different filters to the house None lower nitrate or tds so almost worthless except for sediment removal. This is a quick one I threw on. The filter inside comes out. Fill that on the outside of the existing cotton filter with purigen. Any reason that would not work? 

I should add the purigen turns beige from rinsing in my tap so I know it’s removing stuff

[Mmiller2001]

I'm not sure. I've only used purigen a few times. I wonder how long it would last in something like that?

[Guppysnail]

On 2/27/2022 at 9:49 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

I'm not sure. I've only used purigen a few times. I wonder how long it would last in something like that?

Hmmm that’s a good point I already have to change it monthly add showers laundry dishes ....I’m nixing that idea.