Hold My Beer While I Detoxify This

[KittenFishMom]

On 2/23/2022 at 12:18 AM, Cinnebuns said:

@KittenFishMom I think that's something we can all agree on!

Please pass the beer this way. Cheers

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 2/22/2022 at 8:17 PM, modified lung said:

You're right, just put salt in the water. SeaChem is trying to capitalize on a byproduct of dechlorination. What they don't tell you is a water change is still necessary to get this effect which makes using it pointless in most situations.

I brought it up not to defend Prime but because these chemists that think they are disproving Prime works are actually unknowingly proving it does work at least in certain situations. That's because they are completely ignoring what's by far the most important variable—the fish.

After all, when something is said to be toxic, that means it's toxic to a living organism, like a fish for example. You can't do a toxicology test without involving a living organism. Otherwise you're just doing a chemical test. That kind of methodology in a toxicity test would be laughed out of a science journal in a nanosecond.

Interesting that the aquariumscience.org guy is aware both that dechlorinators release chlorides and that chlorides detoxify nitrites. I smell an agenda.

Please explain. How are they proving it does work?

How exactly does it "detoxify ammonia" (to the fish?) and what does that have to do with detoxifying nitrite? 

Also, what agenda do you smell exactly? 

Thanks

Edited February 23, 2022 by Wrencher_Scott

[Minanora]

I think you may have had one or two beers before you started. 😛 Just kidding.

But this is a good topic of conversation, worthy of a whole evenings "cocktail hour" imo. Lol

My thing for these products.... even if you "detoxify" even just for a short period... more ammonia is being produced. More nitrate, more nitrite... so you still  need to do a water change! Which means however many capfuls of product you used, you still need to dump it down the drain, and the sooner the better. Especially if the "detoxification" is only temporary. I like to cut out the middleman and just do the right thing and do a water change.

But I will say, when I'm acclimating shrimp I follow flip aquatics guide and add prime to the water they came in. I didn't do that once and lost one shrimp. But I also didn't have an airstone in it. SO... who knows. But if it does anything, cool, if not, at least I feel a tiny bit more at ease.

I'm not a chemist. I am fascinated by the subject though.

[Andy's Fish Den]

I'll start off by saying I am in no way even close to understanding chemistry, I came so close to failing it in high school. Now, I wish I had paid more attention since I see how handy it would be in this hobby. But, when I lived in a house that was on a municipal water source that used chlorine in the water, I always used Prime or whatever brand of chlorine remover was available cheap at the LFS. One day, I was doing my water changes on my tanks, drained 50% of the water out of all my tanks, and went to start refilling them. I grabbed the bottle of dechlorinator and had that "Oh crap!" moment, when I realized it was pretty much empty and had forgot to get another bottle when I was at the LFS. I thought I would just put a little bit in each tank and had always heard that chlorine dispersed out with aeration and I figured between the little bit of dechlor and I held the nozzle of the hose up so it had a good amount of aeration and movement as it was going into the tank that I would be ok. I filled the tanks, and sat down to eat, went into the bedroom to feed the fish then, and found several of them dead or floating on their sides barely breathing. I chalked it up to not having enough dechlorinator in, as I had done everything the same as I had always done. Was it because of that? I have no idea. Could it have been something else? Very well could have been, but its a strange coincidence that I never had it happen before, but it did when I didn't have enough dechlor solution to put in the tanks. So, for me, I have seen firsthand that they work by doing something to the water. I have never felt that they remove chlorine, but it does something chemically to detoxify it. Like I said, I am not a chemist, so I couldn't even hazard a guess as to what happens. 

Thankfully, I live in a house now that has a well, and do not chlorinate it, so I don't have to use Prime or anything else. 

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 2/24/2022 at 4:59 AM, Andy's Fish Den said:

I'll start off by saying I am in no way even close to understanding chemistry, I came so close to failing it in high school. Now, I wish I had paid more attention since I see how handy it would be in this hobby. But, when I lived in a house that was on a municipal water source that used chlorine in the water, I always used Prime or whatever brand of chlorine remover was available cheap at the LFS. One day, I was doing my water changes on my tanks, drained 50% of the water out of all my tanks, and went to start refilling them. I grabbed the bottle of dechlorinator and had that "Oh crap!" moment, when I realized it was pretty much empty and had forgot to get another bottle when I was at the LFS. I thought I would just put a little bit in each tank and had always heard that chlorine dispersed out with aeration and I figured between the little bit of dechlor and I held the nozzle of the hose up so it had a good amount of aeration and movement as it was going into the tank that I would be ok. I filled the tanks, and sat down to eat, went into the bedroom to feed the fish then, and found several of them dead or floating on their sides barely breathing. I chalked it up to not having enough dechlorinator in, as I had done everything the same as I had always done. Was it because of that? I have no idea. Could it have been something else? Very well could have been, but its a strange coincidence that I never had it happen before, but it did when I didn't have enough dechlor solution to put in the tanks. So, for me, I have seen firsthand that they work by doing something to the water. I have never felt that they remove chlorine, but it does something chemically to detoxify it. Like I said, I am not a chemist, so I couldn't even hazard a guess as to what happens. 

Thankfully, I live in a house now that has a well, and do not chlorinate it, so I don't have to use Prime or anything else. 

Yes, you killed the fish with chlorine, no doubt about it. It is VERY poisonous to fish. Dechlor does neutralize chlorine. 

ammonia takes a long time to kill, it was the chlorine for sure.