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Zenzo did a video fairly recently where he gave a tip about Root Tabs that makes them easier to sink. Use a push pin to puncture a hole in them, then hold one tab in a pair of tweezers under water and squeeze a couple times to get the air out. I just did this last week and it made the whole process way easier. 

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On 2/23/2022 at 11:41 AM, Bethany92 said:

He’s gotten a bit of color back today, but still no flowing fins. He’s still very curious and eating, swims right up to me while I’m at the tank and tries to explore the syringe when I’m pulling water for tests. Always swimming around the top of the tank, plays with the bubbles from the sponge filter.

That's great news, he looks better and hope it continues!

I've heard the strips are convenient, but not as accurate as the liquid tests. I'm glad you have better results now. Keep up with testing. I think I mentioned above that if you use Seachem Prime, it binds up the Ammonia and Nitrites and temporarily detoxifies them so it won't harm your fish in the tank while cycling (as well as regular water changes). It's great peace of mind when first starting out as you will get (and ultimately want to see at some point, although in very low numbers) ammonia and nitrites which will stress your fish. It's one of my *Must-have* products when doing a fish-in cycle.

I found a chart that's floating around online for cycling a tank using Seachem Prime, that has this basic info: 

1783643250_ScreenShot2022-02-23at12_32_28PM.png.c068daa777798e55459ee79af2a6c022.png

 

While it can be useful, I don't follow it as law. For instance, I *think* a planted tank can be "cycled" with 0ppm Nitrates. And I don't think it take into account Nitrite/Nitrate levels when you add fertilizers or certain substrates. I use this chart as a general guide.

Also, I won't do a 50% water change unless I'm moving a tank or something drastic like that. I'd rather do a couple smaller water changes so I don't overly stress the fish. I usually won't do more than 25% water change. That's just me though. I know others have different opinions. As long as you are adding Prime, the fish *should* be okay with a little Ammonia and Nitrites while you are establishing your beneficial bacterias.

I don't think I caught your Betta's name?

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On 2/23/2022 at 2:34 PM, AndreaW said:

That's great news, he looks better and hope it continues!

I've heard the strips are convenient, but not as accurate as the liquid tests. I'm glad you have better results now. Keep up with testing. I think I mentioned above that if you use Seachem Prime, it binds up the Ammonia and Nitrites and temporarily detoxifies them so it won't harm your fish in the tank while cycling (as well as regular water changes). It's great peace of mind when first starting out as you will get (and ultimately want to see at some point, although in very low numbers) ammonia and nitrites which will stress your fish. It's one of my *Must-have* products when doing a fish-in cycle.

I found a chart that's floating around online for cycling a tank using Seachem Prime, that has this basic info: 

1783643250_ScreenShot2022-02-23at12_32_28PM.png.c068daa777798e55459ee79af2a6c022.png

 

While it can be useful, I don't follow it as law. For instance, I *think* a planted tank can be "cycled" with 0ppm Nitrates. And I don't think it take into account Nitrite/Nitrate levels when you add fertilizers or certain substrates. I use this chart as a general guide.

Also, I won't do a 50% water change unless I'm moving a tank or something drastic like that. I'd rather do a couple smaller water changes so I don't overly stress the fish. I usually won't do more than 25% water change. That's just me though. I know others have different opinions. As long as you are adding Prime, the fish *should* be okay with a little Ammonia and Nitrites while you are establishing your beneficial bacterias.

I don't think I caught your Betta's name?

His name is Milo, my three year old wanted to name him “blue clue” so his full name is Milo Blue Clue as a compromise 😅

 

The ammonia was increased to 0.25 this morning, so I dosed the tank with 0.5mL of Prime (I went with the 5mL per 50 gallons dose which was 1mL per 10 gallons, equating to about 0.5mL for 5gal). He’s also back to pale with clamped fins, though still swimming around and eating. I had added an Indian almond leaf last night, so hopefully as that starts disintegrating, it helps him with the stress and prevents any disease from starting. 
 

Question about Prime and the nitrogen cycle - if I have increased ammonia in the tank and that affects the fish, but nitrates and nitrites test at 0ppm, would dosing Prime to help the fish interrupt the nitrogen cycle or would the ammonia still be available for the bacteria but not harm the fish?


From what I understand now of the ammonia cycle - an ammonia increase is the beginning of the cycle, then it progresses as one type of bacteria starts changing  ammonia into nitrites that feed the second type of bacteria which turns nitrites into nitrates until both types of bacteria are at high enough levels to essentially detoxify the tank of ammonia and nitrites. And the tank is considered cycled when there are low levels of nitrates and 0ppm ammonia and 0ppm nitrites while feeding the fish normally for a week or two - which indicates there’s enough beneficial bacteria to sustain the current bio load of the fish.

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I would not dose prime because of what you stated, I'd do water changes. Blue is most likely stressed from all the changes resulting in color loss and clamped fins. I'd concentrate on 1 thing, the nitrogen cycle. Aquariums take paitents, doing too many things at once is counter productive IMO. Also on the almond leaves, this will affect water parameters (i believe) this might be something you want to research. For me fish/plant keeping became much easier once I saw it as keeping water that just so happens to be favorable to the aquatic life I want to keep. Think keeping water, not keeping plants/fish.

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On 2/24/2022 at 10:03 AM, JoeQ said:

I would not dose prime because of what you stated, I'd do water changes. Blue is most likely stressed from all the changes resulting in color loss and clamped fins. I'd concentrate on 1 thing, the nitrogen cycle. Aquariums take paitents, doing too many things at once is counter productive IMO. Also on the almond leaves, this will affect water parameters (i believe) this might be something you want to research. For me fish/plant keeping became much easier once I saw it as keeping water that just so happens to be favorable to the aquatic life I want to keep. Think keeping water, not keeping plants/fish.

I know the leaves affect the pH, so I’m also testing that daily. Since it’s actually at 7.4, I decided it shouldn’t tank the pH and may help the fish more with the stress and hopefully help him fend off any disease.


From what I’ve seen about Prime is it just “locks up” the ammonia for 24-48 hours so it’s not harming the fish during tank cycling, and it’s used during the fish in cycling. There’s two different ways for fish in cycling  - water changes or Prime to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels from harming the fish, but I don’t think Prime stops the cycling process from what I’ve been finding. https://fishlab.com/fish-in-cycle/#seachem-prime-fish-in-cycle

I will try to be more patient. I’m getting panicky about losing Milo or having him get sick because of this prolonged stress and uncycled tank. I’ll keep focused on water parameters and taking it day by day and not make anymore changes. 

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On 2/24/2022 at 7:40 AM, Bethany92 said:

Question about Prime and the nitrogen cycle - if I have increased ammonia in the tank and that affects the fish, but nitrates and nitrites test at 0ppm, would dosing Prime to help the fish interrupt the nitrogen cycle or would the ammonia still be available for the bacteria but not harm the fish?

Prime will NOT affect your nitrogen cycle. In fact, it will help protect your fish from the toxic ammonia and nitrites. When using Prime, the ammonia is still there and you still need to do a water change to keep it low. Prime is a safe way to keep the ammonia there for the beneficial bacteria to develop without hurting your fish. 

This is from Seachem's website: "Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. It contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water."

It only binds temporarily (24-48 hours) so you still need to be testing frequently.

On 2/24/2022 at 8:31 AM, Bethany92 said:

From what I’ve seen about Prime is it just “locks up” the ammonia for 24-48 hours so it’s not harming the fish during tank cycling, and it’s used during the fish in cycling. There’s two different ways for fish in cycling  - water changes or Prime to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels from harming the fish, but I don’t think Prime stops the cycling process from what I’ve been finding. https://fishlab.com/fish-in-cycle/#seachem-prime-fish-in-cycle

You are correct. You still will want to do water changes in conjunction with Prime for best results. Make sure you are dosing Prime for the full volume of your tank each time.

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On 2/24/2022 at 8:03 AM, JoeQ said:

I'd concentrate on 1 thing, the nitrogen cycle... For me fish/plant keeping became much easier once I saw it as keeping water that just so happens to be favorable to the aquatic life I want to keep. Think keeping water, not keeping plants/fish.

Agree 100%. It's all bout the nitrogen cycle and focusing on water quality.

Curious why you would recommend not doing the Prime though? Or are you saying water changes are more important than dosing chemicals?

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On 2/24/2022 at 10:33 AM, AndreaW said:

Prime will NOT affect your nitrogen cycle. In fact, it will help protect your fish from the toxic ammonia and nitrites. When using Prime, the ammonia is still there and you still need to do a water change to keep it low. Prime is a safe way to keep the ammonia there for the beneficial bacteria to develop without hurting your fish. 

This is from Seachem's website: "Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. It contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water."

It only binds temporarily (24-48 hours) so you still need to be testing frequently.

I didn’t even think to look at Seachem’s website, but that’s reassuring! I assumed it wouldn’t stop it but I wanted to double and triple check before just going with my assumption. I’ll make notes on the information you provided earlier in the thread about Prime and it should be mostly smooth sailing until it’s fully cycled now. 

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On 2/24/2022 at 10:41 AM, AndreaW said:

Agree 100%. It's all bout the nitrogen cycle and focusing on water quality.

Curious why you would recommend not doing the Prime though? Or are you saying water changes are more important than dosing chemicals?

I haven't used prime to cycle, l haven't done research on use of prime in the cycle. In my eyes its a chemical and IMO should only be used in emergency situations (Such as not being able to do a water change that day). If anything I now just see it as an extra step, adding prime to put the water change off for a day or two.

 

Edit: I need to edit this to say: your fresh water change water should always be dechlorinated and detoxifyed with prime. 

Edited by JoeQ
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Here’s a link you might find interesting. It’s by a Betta breeder who did a popular talk for the Aquarium Co-op online club. She a master of caring for and breeding Bettas. As you can see she keeps her fish in one gallon jars and does water changes once a week. Most breeders use similar system and that’s how Milo was raised. Now he’s in a spacious 10 gallon getting frequent water changes and lots of attention. You’re doing the right things! Keep it up 😁

https://www.ingloriousbettas.com/jarring.html

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On 2/24/2022 at 10:52 AM, JoeQ said:

I haven't used prime to cycle, l haven't done research on use of prime in the cycle. In my eyes its a chemical and IMO should only be used in emergency situations (Such as not being able to do a water change that day). If anything I now just see it as an extra step, adding prime to put the water change off for a day or two. 

That makes sense. With needing small water changes to keep ammonia levels low, what level of ammonia would you do a water change and what percentage of water would you change in a 5gal tank for that level of ammonia?

Is it correct to assume you don’t want to do daily water changes? Or would 10% daily changes be more beneficial than waiting x amount of days in between larger water changes (like a 25% water change)?

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On 2/24/2022 at 9:14 AM, JoeQ said:

I would do a water change if there is any ammonia in a fish in cycle, as for the size it would depend on how much was present. Smaller more frequent changes are preferable to 1 big change once a week.

Same here. When cycling my tank I did a water change when I detected .25ppm ammonia. It was only 10-20% at most. I generally don't do more than 20% at a time unless it's extreme measures (like moving a tank).

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On 2/24/2022 at 11:28 AM, AndreaW said:

Same here. When cycling my tank I did a water change when I detected .25ppm ammonia. It was only 10-20% at most. I generally don't do more than 20% at a time unless it's extreme measures (like moving a tank).

In mine I won't do over 50% unless its an emergency.  30%~35% is my normal change. And on my 10g ill siphon the fresh water in with an airhose so im now shocking the inhabitants. 

Im also pretty sure beth can use this equation to figure out how much shes diluting her ammona concentration. 

 

Xppm-(Xppm*water change size%) 

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On 2/24/2022 at 11:36 AM, JoeQ said:

In mine I won't do over 50% unless its an emergency.  30%~35% is my normal change. And on my 10g ill siphon the fresh water in with an airhose so im now shocking the inhabitants. 

Im also pretty sure beth can use this equation to figure out how much shes diluting her ammona concentration. 

 

Xppm-(Xppm*water change size%) 

I’m just now learning the siphon method for putting fresh water into a tank. Before I used to put the fish in a separate tank while I did the water change with a rather strong gravel vacuum thing, then wait 2 hours for the temp to regulate in the tank before putting the fish back in. And that was a lot of going back and forth between the kitchen and the fish tank to refill it and messing up my tank decor. Now that I’ve discovered the siphon method and how much gentler it is on the tank and the fish, I’ll just prepare the freshwater, put a heater in it and once the temperatures are equal, I siphon the water into the tank. I got a Python (the lower cost one, not the fancy spill free one) and that’s much gentler than the other gravel cleaner I had so I’m more comfortable with the fish staying in the tank for both cleaning and filling.

I’ve seen a method of putting a tube into a knot to slowly drip water into a new fish’s cup/bag to slowly acclimate them to the tank. Like incredibly slow drip. I assume I could do something similar with putting the fresh water into the tank instead of waiting for it to heat up, so the temperature on the tank doesn’t drop. But I will wait until I can experiment with it so I don’t temperature shock my fish. 

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On 2/24/2022 at 11:50 AM, Bethany92 said:

I’m just now learning the siphon method for putting fresh water into a tank. Before I used to put the fish in a separate tank while I did the water change with a rather strong gravel vacuum thing, then wait 2 hours for the temp to regulate in the tank before putting the fish back in. And that was a lot of going back and forth between the kitchen and the fish tank to refill it and messing up my tank decor. Now that I’ve discovered the siphon method and how much gentler it is on the tank and the fish, I’ll just prepare the freshwater, put a heater in it and once the temperatures are equal, I siphon the water into the tank. I got a Python (the lower cost one, not the fancy spill free one) and that’s much gentler than the other gravel cleaner I had so I’m more comfortable with the fish staying in the tank for both cleaning and filling.

I’ve seen a method of putting a tube into a knot to slowly drip water into a new fish’s cup/bag to slowly acclimate them to the tank. Like incredibly slow drip. I assume I could do something similar with putting the fresh water into the tank instead of waiting for it to heat up, so the temperature on the tank doesn’t drop. But I will wait until I can experiment with it so I don’t temperature shock my fish. 

Tempature shock isnt really going to be an issue as long as you are refilling slowly. The problem arises when you plunk a fish into waters with a huge tempature diffrence. Refilling a 75 degree tank with 25% of 65 degree water isn't going to make a huge difference and the difference that it does make is going to be so slow the fish will have time to adapt. Massive sudden change are what you have to be careful of

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Milo is much better today! I did a small water change, maybe 15%, yesterday and only put in Prime (used tap water for the change) and Stress Guard. Left the Indian almond leaf in the tank. The water parameters have all been consistent, aside from the ammonia which was about 0.5ppm yesterday. Today, ammonia was below 0.25ppm and the nitrites are at 0ppm. Added a second dose of Stress Guard per instructions, and this is Milo about 3 hours later. His color is definitely coming back and his fins are starting to relax! 🥰 Now, it’s just a matter of convincing him he can’t eat just freeze dried brine shrimp and daphnia. Thank you all for helping me figure out how to help Milo and get my tank cycled properly!

7930DA71-6C47-4FFA-B116-044E85C2663D.jpeg

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That is great to hear, but I prefer to call him Blu on account of I also know the pain of not being able to name a pet when I was young! 😂 Just be sure to feed Blu a balanced diet,  spirulina, algae wafers, ect. Bettas are labyrinth fish and need access to the top of the water, if they get constipated it will oftentimes mess with their swim bladder and prevent them from reaching the surface.

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