Subscalarium Journal

[OnlyGenusCaps]

And they are off!

All of the goby fry and finally released and, with the exception of two stragglers, are over the falls into the fry container with the moss.  Took them two weeks from when they were laid as eggs.  With them now out of the box, I pulled the rock, but left the box up.

I'm going to keep the arrangement for a few weeks, as I am a bit concerned that they will fit through the mesh on the Ziss. Once I am sure they will make it there, I'll put them into the larger Ziss space though. I think that's going to be their home for a little while though.  I'm new to this breeding fish where you can't just leave the fry with the adults.

I tried to get a photo of all of the little ones, but I couldn't get my camera on my phone to focus through glass then acrylic, all under water.  So, I am not going to bother with posting that photo.  I'll try for a better one later. 

As far as the room goes, I am a bit nervous about the fry dying, so...  I've decided to not try to overload and do everything in one day.  Here is my goal, assuming tomorrow is not a snow day here:

Day 1 - Disassemble drains and plumping, drain tanks, pull and place on ground, refill from extra water, add air from extra pump, take down rack

Day 2 - Put up foam board and then faux brick board over foam, two sheets wide

Day 3 - Reassemble rack, drain tanks, move to rack, refill tanks from extra water, reassemble plumbing

I think this is a much more tenable course of action.  Plus, I think the slower, more stable pace will decrease the likelihood of losing as many fry. 

My "extra water" is already in the bins.  It's important because I am on a well in Minnesota and my water comes out at about 5°C, which is a bit too chilly for a quick bath for the fish.  I don't have any heaters in any of my tanks, the room is to temp.  So, by sitting the water in bins, I hope to minimize and stress on the critters.  But it's a lot of water to sit around:

Now the astute among you, dear readers, might recall photos from the other direction and be thinking ":that's not going to leave a lot of space to work in once the tanks are next to the bins, is it?"  You would be correct.  It's not a spacious or glamorous space.  But it is mine, and there is something lovely about that.

[Torrey]

On 2/21/2022 at 5:57 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Sorry to hear about the heater, but I'm glad the danios kept right on going for you!

I wonder how long that can last. I have Endler's and they are nothing if not...  Productive.

Nice work!  Although, those fainting goats were popular for a while.  I wonder what a strain of fainting fish would be like?  😛

I'm guessing you are doing some sort of modified version?  The way I have this set up helps me grab fry as they pull away from the rock they are adhered to.  My understanding is danios are egg scatterers (I don't have any, so what do I know!).  Are they eggs sticky?  I'm fascinated to find out what you are up to!

I set up a 5 gallon drink container with a UGF and an airstone in the uplift tube. Played with the height of the UGF so the uplift tube would provide adequate circulation for water treatment, but not so strong as to pull the eggs up the tube, and into the water where the danios would eat the eggs.

I designed it after discovering how much easier it was to harvest amphopods via the spigot in a similar set up. It worked!

So, for a larger scale breeding operation, I just need the plastic craft canvas about 3 to 4 inches from the top of the tank. Eggs fall through, and (borrowing from another suggestion) are funneled into the UGF, which i don't have the uplift tube airstone at full blast.

Once the adult danios have done their thing, I add the floating baskets, and turn up the air supply.

Theoretically, the air stone can provide sufficient lift to pull the eggs up to the baskets.

I could (theoretically) add Endler mommas to drop fry, and the fry could be sucked through the UGF into the baskets. 

Only one way to find out!

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Day 1 of the background build is done.  I got a bit more completed than I'd anticipated.

I got the fish off the rack and settled in on the floor.  My backup pump couldn't deal with the clogged jetlift tubes (Once they are back up, I'll give them a good cleaning), so I had to run long air lines down to them from my central air line to keep them going.  I can't tell you how handy that ACOOP large air line roll has been!  I ended up needing all of the water in those bins, too!  But here they are, surviving, if unceremoniously, on the floor:

I took the rack down, and was making good progress.  So, I got a bit over confident.  That always comes back to haunt me when I do that.  I decided I had time to start putting up the foam board.  And just like that, I had both up.  Looking pretty decent, I must say:

The faux brick paneling was much, much heavier and less flexible than the foam board, so the dangling airlines had to go.  But it was otherwise, more straightforward then I'd feared.  I'd planned to use a bunch of adhesive on the back of the boards to stick them to the foam.  Even ran around town to find the right stuff.  In the end though, the panel board nails are so much easier and work shockingly well.  But with two panels up, it was looking pretty decent:

As I inspected it, I realized the bricks didn't exactly line up, which was a bit annoying.  It might be because I should have flipped the second panel?  Clearly the pattern is the same on both, so maybe that would be the solution.  But it wouldn't be one of my projects without at least a little hiccup.  The inspection also revealed I had neglected one little detail.  In my initial excitement at my unexpected progress, I had forgotten to make an opening for an outlet.  It had been covered by the foam board. 

After taking the panel down, I decided was really glad I didn't use the adhesive!  And I simply cut out a spot for the outlet:

I foamed around it because the hole I cut was not particularly nice.  I wasn't going to have enough time to get the drill out to start the hole in the paneling, so here is where the project sits tonight:

Not a bad bit of work.  For me at least.  Tomorrow, I'm going to grab some grey silicone (I only put the nails in where it looked like "mortar".  Then I can pick up by cutting off the foam around the outlet and make a proper hole in the panel for the outlet.  I even get a second chance to flip the panel around and see if it looks better - so not all bad.

I'm pretty tired and a bit sore.  Part of the tetris game of doing the work on such a confined place required me to haul the 75 gal around several times today.  I'll get to do it a few more tomorrow, but not quite as far or as intensively.  But it's already feeling worth it to me.

[Patrick_G]

Wow, it’s going to look great with the brick panels in place. You probably already know, but you can get little plastic blocks to shim out the outlet and cover so they fit flush with the panel. 
 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 2/22/2022 at 7:01 PM, Patrick_G said:

You probably already know, but you can get little plastic blocks to shim out the outlet and cover so they fit flush with the panel.

I think that's your nice way of saying, "you probably don't know about these".  And you'd be correct!  😆  Sadly, I think it's too late as I'd have to excavate the foam, but it stuck out previously, so, it shouldn't be too recessed.  And if it is not too late, I'll have access to that spot even with the rack in, so can fuss with it later.  And I might... 

Couldn't be happier that I got the fish set up well yesterday.  Woke up last night to a barfing child. I suspect little to no progress will be made today.  And even less if I get this creeping crud, which is possible as it has been moving through our house.  🙄

At least the fish are okay where they are for now! 

[Atitagain]

Great progress the faux brick looks good, how are you cutting that with a g grinder?

On 2/21/2022 at 10:11 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

But it is mine, and there is something lovely about that.

Same👍

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 2/23/2022 at 7:43 PM, Atitagain said:

how are you cutting that with a g grinder?

I hope I haven't misrepresented them.  This is just a panel board product.  So, it is some sort of molded, textured "hardboard" I believe, that has been painted to look like brick.  Which is good because I only own two, real power tools.  The second one I only got after being convinced to buy it for cutting plywood by the person to introduced me to this forum.  Anyhow, long answer just to tell you that I am using a variety of hand saws, though the most effective so far seems to be the 7tpi reciprocating saw blade that screws into a handle. 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I'm exhausted after two days with a sick kid and then trying to fit in some work on this space. I still need to do the finishing work, and the last panel simply wouldn't line up perfectly.  But it's largely done.  This is the space I will make a wall of tanks.  This is the first time I have had a space I have made an effort to look nice, and not just have my stuff in what lookes like storage.  Here is the wall that will back my future photos:

[Patrick_G]

I’m ORD but it’s looking great. It’s weird that the panels don’t line up but if you hadn’t pointed it out I wouldn’t have noticed. 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 2/24/2022 at 9:54 PM, Patrick_G said:

It’s weird that the panels don’t line up

I feared this might be the case.  Where the sewage stack that runs behind what is now the wall and connects to the foundation, it has a large metal collar? which comes out a bit.  I'd feared it might disrupt the project, which is why I started from the far opposite wall.  That way if it took a long time to figure it out, I could at least get the fish rack back up, and if it caused problems down the line, any issues would be at the furthest point from where you enter the room (and the most concealed under the stairs).  Turns out the latter was useful!  The sewage collar bowed the base of the paneling out just slightly but not the top of the panel, which left the lagging end of that panel 0.78 degrees from plumb with he bottom essentially shorter along the wall then the top.  This is why the bricks don't line up on the last seam.  The final panel, to get it flush with the previous one, ended up at that very slight angle.  Oh well.  For a space well under the stairs that will, hopefully, have a bunch of tanks in front of it, it seemed like a lot of work to try to correct such a slight misalignment.  While it would otherwise drive me nuts over time, the thought of how much work it would take to correct will probably keep that feeling under control.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

First let me give a blanket apology to the folks within unanswered DM's waiting for me.  There is very cool stuff waiting there that I just haven't had a chance to get to.  I'm been up working on the room, and then being woken up somewhere in the 5 o'clock hour by a small child.  I hope to get back to those DM's soon, but in the meantime please accept my apologies for my delayed correspondence. 

Then, just a quick up date.  The wall is done and most of the stuff is back.  There is a bit of clean up and re organizing to do.  But it's largely back together.  A new beginning.

Before anyone freaks out, yes I know this is not a safe setup in the photo.  Adding all of your tanks to the top is a terrible idea.  I have cinder blocks on the lower shelves at the back side to bias the shelf towards the wall.  I know, i know.  Still not a a good idea.  And it is not a permanent solution.  Once I clean out and sterilize the 75, it will go below again and make the structure more sound.  And it's getting warm enough these days around here to allow that to happen soon. 

I am 90% sure I am going to regret having those tanks up so high over time.  I need a step stool to do anything with them.  But the long term plan is to only use them a fry rearing spaces, so they won't be in constant use - I don't think.  Plus, it's been nice to see right into the tanks when I am up there.  Especially with the goby fry - which came through the process fairly well.

That's all for now.

[Torrey]

On 2/25/2022 at 5:52 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

has a large metal collar?

This is definitely a headache, and if there's a chance of moisture getting behind the wall there/ you see evidence of moisture behind the wall, it's worth doing 2 things:

1. Cut to accommodate the collar. If I were laying and mudding actual brick, I would have wet sawed the brick to fit snug around the flange and collar of the system. Your brick board should be infinitely easier to get flush.

2. Hinge a board to have access, and make the 'hinged door' small enough to not need to move your entire rack. Like, the size of a tank maybe, so you only need to move one small tank or plant grow out? Just want access to put a Boater's Friend dehumidifier (or similar dehumidifying salts) behind the board you have. Sometimes the outside of the sewage pipes sweat in cool spaces, because decomposition inside the pipes generates enough heat that cooler air outside the pipes will generate condensation. 

Your wall looks great!

If you hadn't said how you were cutting the board, I wouldn't have realized you didn't brick and mud the real deal from your photo.

[Ex ran a masonry business. Lick & stick 'em and boarding have definitely improved in the last decade!]

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 2/27/2022 at 10:49 AM, Torrey said:

Your wall looks great!

If you hadn't said how you were cutting the board, I wouldn't have realized you didn't brick and mud the real deal from your photo.

First off, you are far too kind!  But I appreciate the kinds.  Frankly, it didn't have to be all that good to be a significant improvement, so I had that working, strongly, in my favor.  🤪

On 2/27/2022 at 10:49 AM, Torrey said:

[Ex ran a masonry business. Lick & stick 'em and boarding have definitely improved in the last decade!]

Maybe.  All I know is that I saw these in [Redacted: name of bib box store] and kept thinking about them.  Then when Zenzo put out the vid on spending time with your critters, I realized that I really did want to enjoy the time there more, and spend more time there, but it was a pretty ugly space.  Thus an idea was born!

On 2/27/2022 at 10:49 AM, Torrey said:

This is definitely a headache, and if there's a chance of moisture getting behind the wall there/ you see evidence of moisture behind the wall, it's worth doing 2 things:

So, I knew 0% of that.  Thanks!  That said, the sewage stack has been partly (except the port/opening/door?) behind the foam wall for about 6 years already.  When I was cleaning out the insulation around it to make a bit more space to reduce the bowing, there was no sign of moisture back there.  This time it is sealed in closed cell spray fora with a layer of silicone over it.  Hopefully that continues to work out well.  🤞 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Quick update on the goby fry: they are all dead.  They didn't die from the moving the tank around.  Believe it or not.  I just think the flow in "Fry Falls" was too high over time.  The fry and teeny-tiny and I think they simply got exhausted and petered out.  So, I have doubled the space in the receptacle of Fry Falls and added a few small rocks.  It takes two clamps now, further proving the worth of always having extra clamps on the utility tub!  I'm hoping this gives them a better chance to have somewhere to rest.  Obligingly, the pair has spawned again, so I'll be able to test this new system soon.  Plus, thanks to the last MAS meeting, I am now connected with another person attempting to breed these, which is nice.  Here is the new setup:

Mostly what I have been doing is bunging out the back area of the Subsclarium.  The back bit under the stairs was a storage space for soil components for the exotic plants I grew.  I don't need most of those things these days, so it was time for them to go.  First, I had to unearth them from the other crap I had piled on top in the name of expediency to get the faux brick walls up.  I am happy to report, after mush struggle and reorganization of the remainder of the storage areas of the basement and garage, the are has been cleaned out.  It's looking like a nice new start if you ask me.

Edited March 14, 2022 by OnlyGenusCaps
I should really learn to proof read my posts!

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Progress has been slower.  I can't take PTO to accomplish massive things here all the time.  🤪  But with the weather warming and the light lasting into the evenings, there is promise of more progress. 

To finish off the current rack, I bought another 75, on sale - from the usual suspect.  I'm water testing it now:

I need to sterilize its partner with 12% H2O2, but that require ventilation (anything above 10% comes with a health hazard for inhalation).  Then, I'll drain the new one, add extra silicone, put in the corner matten braces, spray the backs of both tanks, and back they both go on the racks. 

But I'm making one of their back BLUE!  I've been interested in doing a blue backed tank, but I didn't really want to commit to a permanent situation.  I'm using PlastiDip spray.  That way if I really don't like it, I can peel off the backing and swap the matten sponges out.  But in the meantime, I have plans...

[Atitagain]

Everything looks great. You’ve made some good progress. Sorry to hear about the goby fry , atleast you got another chance. 😀

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 3/14/2022 at 9:09 PM, Atitagain said:

Sorry to hear about the goby fry

Oh.  Don't be.  This is my first time trying to breed a fish where it is a puzzle to solve.  In general I tend to gravitate to critters that have parental care for their offspring.  Not sure why.  Just a pattern I've noticed in my keeping.  For the most part the fish I keep and am interested in are cichlids.  So, getting successful breeding comes down to managing the social dynamics to the point where the fish can take care of their offspring themselves. 

These gobies do have parental care...  Of the eggs.  But this is the first time where I'm not going to get new fish out of the situation unless I intervene.  It becomes a question of when I just in and take over care, and how to proceed with the most delicate early stages.  I'll get there, and I'm finding it a surprisingly fun journey!  Who knows maybe I'll expand my repertoire to other fish where I need to care for the eggs from the start as well.  🤔 

[eatyourpeas]

On 3/9/2022 at 7:00 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

proving the worth of always having extra clamps

One simply cannot have too many of those. In our house it is "his clamps" and "her clamps", and they not cross over! 🤪

On 3/15/2022 at 5:04 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Oh.  Don't be.  This is my first time trying to breed a fish where it is a puzzle to solve.  In general I tend to gravitate to critters that have parental care for their offspring.  Not sure why.  Just a pattern I've noticed in my keeping.  For the most part the fish I keep and am interested in are cichlids.  So, getting successful breeding comes down to managing the social dynamics to the point where the fish can take care of their offspring themselves. 

These gobies do have parental care...  Of the eggs.  But this is the first time where I'm not going to get new fish out of the situation unless I intervene.  It becomes a question of when I just in and take over care, and how to proceed with the most delicate early stages.  I'll get there, and I'm finding it a surprisingly fun journey!  Who knows maybe I'll expand my repertoire to other fish where I need to care for the eggs from the start as well.  🤔 

It is always great to see how people deal with breeding, even though I am not going that route (avoiding MTS at all costs!) 🙂

This is looking great! 😍

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 3/15/2022 at 11:01 AM, eatyourpeas said:

One simply cannot have too many of those. In our house it is "his clamps" and "her clamps", and they not cross over! 🤪

One day I hope to have a clamp collection to rival my hole saw collection.  Hole saws seem to be like Pokemon for me - collect 'em all!  I always seem to need a size I somehow don't yet have.  

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I had a chance to quickly drill the new 75.  I thought I would post a couple picts.  I know @Jawjagrrl was talking about drilling for her 55x55 project, so I thought I'd post a couple photos of this drill.  Only four more in my immediate future to finish this new project.  🤪

This is my setup.  I do painter's tape on both sides of the glass.  I lay the tank on foam board on its side and then lay a towel inside with thick foam board on that.  That setup soaks up water, make clean up easy, and prevents the glass plug, if it falls, from damaging the tank.  Then, I place a jig I made from plywood over the area I want to drill.  Has the same side hole obviously.  Clamp that down, and I am all set.

And after about 20 minutes, keeping it cool with water...  Success!

As you can see the hole is not perfect.  Not my best work.  Chips around the edge.  But not bad enough that the bulkhead won't seal.

One step closer!

[Jawjagrrl]

thanks for tagging me! I watched Tanner at Serpa do a couple of these last weekend. I felt more confident about doing this even if I find myself leaning towards canisters for the 55 project and saving the sump idea for a possible future fish rank in the basement for growout, etc. I just added endlers out of quarantine to my husband's tank that included an adult female - and it's like teens at the drivein on Saturday night. Babies can't be far off!

[Brandon p]

I have canisters last on my list.  
1. UGF

2. sump

3. hob

4 sponge

5. canstiers

thats the order I personally prefer but I have all of them. There are different reasons why you chose filter and I think most do a good enough job for most fish. Make sure you have check values for sumps and canisters. Trust me I learned the hard way about 150gallons of learning 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Have a minute to do a short update.  It was a full, rich day of silicone adhesive!  I was able to finish sealing the new 75 (I feel like part of the problem people experience with the big tanks busting later is the manufacturers use as little silicone as possible, so I add some more to around the top and bottom rims).  And I got in the braces for the corner matten filters!

If you haven't installed a corner matten it's pretty straightforward.  I measure the distance from the corner where the braces need to go, and mark them with a sharpie on the outside of the tank - the later to be wiped off with alcohol. 

Then I run a tick bead of silicone down the marked line.  After that, I place the pre-cut glass brace in place, and smooth the silicone along the corners with my finger.  That's it for the braces.  Really easy.

Let me take a quick moment here to explain why I am using corner matten filters here, and why I am using mattens generally in my rack system.  I feel the need to do this because I am like a rash all over this forum professing my love for sump filters, and here I am installing matten filters all over the place.  I do still love sump filters.  It's just they are not appropriate or optimal in every situation.  Including this case.

So, the big first reason I am doing corner mattens here is that they are air driven.  With a sump you need a water pump, and in this space, I have invested (and I do mean invested given the price!) in a linear piston air pump.  Because of that, I should be doing everything I can as air driven, if possible. 

You might be asking yourself why I am not just using sponge filters.  It's a good question.  Matten filters have much more surface area, so do I think I need much more filtration?  No.  I could certainly use sponge filters and the water parameters would be just fine.  I'm not a college-kid, canister bro - though I totally had friends at the time who fit this stereotype:

Him: "Dude, want to see my new canister filter?  It's so powerful!"

Me: "Why do you have the largest Magnum filter on a 20 gallon tank?"

Him (attempting to justify his insanity): "I totally need the filtration.  I'm going to put a huge oscar in there!"

Me: "This raises other questions for me."

Him: "You just don't get it.  You don't even understand canister filters."

Me: "Ah."

Obviously, matten filters and sponge filters work the same way.  So, why go to the much larger expense, and greater work to install these corner mattens?  For me, it comes down to two things in this case - aesthetics.  Well, aesthetics in two ways.  The first is that I don't really like the look of sponge filters, and though matten filters are larger, they can more easily become the background.  I have black sponge for the tank I will be painting the back black, and blue for the soon to be blue background tank.  The other thing they do is obscure my overflow for my automatic water changer.  You can see in the second photo above that the bulkhead fits inside the corner matten braces.  Now, I'll probably have to cut down the sponge a little to get it around the overflow pipe, but at least I won't see it!  The other advantage of hiding the overflow would be that it is no longer is a danger to fry.  But if I am honest, and for the species that will be in these tanks in particular, I'm in it for the looks.  That's also one of the reasons I like sumps - they can hide equipment in the display tank. 

The last bonus is that I have hard water, and no matter how good the airstone, it's going to clog.  The Jetlifter tubes that these use clog far less often in my hard water.  And when they do, a super quick clean with an old toothbrush and some H2O2 brings them back to perfection.  Plus, they work better than any airstone ever can, simply because the bulk of an airstone blocks part of the tube, reducing water flow.  Just physics.  How it goes.  The combination of the Jetlifter tubes and the power provided by the linear piston air pump, means I can get basically attain powerhead level flow from them when they are in good repair, if I want to.  Between ease of maintenance and the flow potential, I've started to steer away from airstones.  

[Atitagain]

I haven’t researched matten filters, not really sure I’ve ever even seen one set up. But I think I get how they work. Although, does the air bubble to top and create surface agitation like a sponge would? And like you were saying of hiding the overflow couldn’t a heater (maybe one with a guard around it) be inserted into the matten. I know it would loose some surface area to collect beneficial bacteria but in theory could it work like that?

maybr I need to see one set up and I’m thinking of it all wrong…

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 3/17/2022 at 9:13 PM, Atitagain said:

Although, does the air bubble to top and create surface agitation like a sponge would?

Sure does!  The bubbles still work the same way for that.

On 3/17/2022 at 9:13 PM, Atitagain said:

And like you were saying of hiding the overflow couldn’t a heater (maybe one with a guard around it) be inserted into the matten.

Absolutely!  In fact, I plan to try to tuck the one heater I'll be using in there.  The room is heated, but one species likes it a bit warmer, so that one will get a small heater - right behind the mattern that doesn't have the overflow.  All tucked away out of sight!

----------------------------------

Today at lunch I learned I have no future as a graffiti artist.  I pained the backs to the tanks with two colors of PlastiDip.

These are the first tank backs I've ever pained.  I started with the blue; perhaps a mistake.  You can see from the outset, things are not going well.  Even coating?  No chance.

By the time it was done, it did have a bit of a waves on the seas pattern.  Sort of...

I chose to use PlastiDip because it can easily peal off.  While I am excited to have a blue backed tank, I've never had one and I didn't really want to commit fully.  So the idea that I could just peel this off easily was a bonus.  Unfortunately, the feature is also a bug.  The paint stuck to the tape and made getting the tape off without peeling the paint off a challenge. 

On the next tank with the black, I decided to put down a base coat first to give the second layer something to grab onto.

The first coat was really transparent, and it became obvious I would need to do many, many coats.  I think I ended up with like 5, 6 in a few spots.  But, I think this one came out better.  Black might also be more forgiving, I don't know.

Anyhow, here they are finished.  And back in the garage.

You may notice that in addition to the dribbly background on the blue tank, the paint also doesn't match the filter sponge.  Ugh!  I'm trying to decide if I want to try to find a spray paint that does match and start over, or all it good for now.  The missing piece of my lack of commitment to a blue background is that I forgot that one does not just pull and redo a 75 gallon tank on a whim.  It becomes a project. 

I'd welcome input about whether I should just leave it for now, or try to get a matching paint and start over.