Subscalarium Journal

[OnlyGenusCaps]

The main place I have to keep tanks of various sorts is underneath the stairs to my basement.  Glamorous, I know.  Actually, it's even worse than that.  To get there, you need to exit the basement into the garage (cold in a Minnesota winter, and hot in a Minnesota summer), then through a cramped storage area, past the well tank and water treatment equipment, near the boiler, finally to access the one wall I can put tanks on.  This rabbit warren of a space, is my little sanctuary.  And inspired by @Atitagain's description of his aquatic vivariums, I have also decided to give this odd little space a Latin name - "Subscalarium", which roughly translates as the under stair -arium. Basically, I've decided to combine all of my efforts in this one place into a single journal.  And I thought it needed a...  Unique name.  Yes, let's go with unique.

I'll get photos of the space at some point soon, partly because I have plans to make it much nicer.  You know, so I want to spend time there.  I'd been thinking about this for a month or so, but then Zenzo's new vid really sold me on the importance of finding ways to spend time with your tanks.  I mean, how can I enjoy them if I am never near them?!  And this part of the house is about as far away from anything as I can get - so I have to go there. 

The thing that made me decide to post something today, is this:

These are hatched but not yet released wrigglers of desert gobies (Chlamydogobius eremius).  I have been trying to figure out how to get the fry for a while now, a little like @HillstreamBoy's efforts with his Rhinogobius.  The problem is that the male cares very well for the eggs, and any time I pulled them they fungused on me quite quickly.  So, I've been working on timing the pull correctly.  But I've also figured out that the flow I was getting in my Ziss breeder box was woefully insufficient for this species.  I suspect the male is fanning them almost constantly.  I wasn't quite sure what to do, until I got to chatting with the guy who owns Twin Cities Guppies.  He told me that the Fluval hang-on breeder boxes can be hooked up to a small desktop fountain pump and provide way more flow that way.  So that's what I've done here:

You can see I've stuffed some 30ppi Poret foam in the main overflow to try to keep the wrigglers in.  And here is the tiny pump I bought on Amazon:

I'm pretty encouraged.  For one thing, one of the wrigglers went free swimming while I was finishing getting this set up!  Sadly, it was pulled over the tiny stream of the secondary overflow, which lead me to put a second strip of Poret over that.  I am a little worried that the current will be too strong for the little guys when they release.  I need to go and get some moss tomorrow.  I don't have any on hand.  A big breeder no-no.  But I'm excited because I am getting so, so close! 

Wish me luck on this batch.  I'd love to BAP these.  They are the coolest fish!

[Struggle]

We’ve been looking for desert gobies for awhile now, they are very interesting little fish!

[Odd Duck]

@OnlyGenusCapsGenius!

[Torrey]

Brilliant!

[Fonske]

I totally fell for the inventive, er, "unique" name, thinking it's a journal about some angelfish subspecies 😄

I'm glad I did though, the baby gobies are so cool, wish you all the luck with them! 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 2/12/2022 at 9:19 PM, Struggle said:

We’ve been looking for desert gobies for awhile now

I hope you successfully find them soon.  They are awesome, and should be way, way more common in the hobby!

On 2/12/2022 at 9:24 PM, Odd Duck said:

Genius!

On 2/12/2022 at 9:53 PM, Torrey said:

Brilliant!

Totally!  The owner of TCG is a really smart dude, and he's so willing to share his knowledge.  I really enjoy talking to him.  This little trick of his may have solved my problem!

On 2/12/2022 at 11:50 PM, Fonske said:

about some angelfish subspecies

That's hilarious!  It did not occur to me it could be taken that way. Thanks for wishing me luck!

[OnlyGenusCaps]

The conundrum of the eggs and wrigglers needing high current so they don't, well, you know...  Die.  And the fry being swept around and bashed on the sides in the same maelstrom, has at least been partly solved today.  Following inspiration from @Fish Folk's awesome floating fry container, I have decided to collect the fry in a fry container as soon as they hatch.  I've done this by removing the sponge from the overflow on the breeder box, like so:

The almost guarantees that the fry, once they release themselves, will be sucked over the falls.  I now have a waiting container clamped to the side that I have drilled holed into and stuffed with Poret to let the water, but not the fry, out.

This acts as an automated fry catchment device.  The current was pretty strong in there still, so I added some sand, which pitted immediately, and some X-Mas moss.  I think the moss will help.

Now I just have to figure out what to feed these little guys.  If I have a dirty greenwater tank with loads of little critters in it, that would be just the ticket.  For now, some of the Xtreme Krill Flakes that I fed the parents got chopped up by the water pump and made their way into the box.  Perhaps they will eat that?  Given that BBS is as big as their entire head, I'm not sure that will work.  I'm still figuring this out, but it's a really fun journey!

[Torrey]

On 2/13/2022 at 7:24 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Given that BBS is as big as their entire head, I'm not sure that will work.

BBS were bigger than my danio fry🤣

I found dropping egg yolk in boiling water, and then pressing through a cheese cloth was an effective first food. I literally put the cheese cloth in and the fry would swarm it. Change the cheesecloth every 2 to 4 hours during the day and water parameters stay pretty stable.

Adults ate the egg yolk that I actually squeezed through for the first 2 weeks, after that the fry were big enough to alternate feedings between eggyolk, and bbs.

I started whipping crushed/powdered adult food into the raw yolk before "egg dropping" the yolk into the boiling water at the end of week one. It seemed pretty effective, and I only lost 3 of 67 fry.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 2/14/2022 at 11:43 AM, Torrey said:

I found dropping egg yolk in boiling water, and then pressing through a cheese cloth was an effective first food. I literally put the cheese cloth in and the fry would swarm it. Change the cheesecloth every 2 to 4 hours during the day and water parameters stay pretty stable.

I may give this a try.  Thanks!  I've also just remembered that I have freeze dried cyclops.  I always have trouble getting them to sink, but that's probably worth a try too.

------------------------------------------------

And now for the promised "before" photos of the space.  Prepare to be...  Drum roll, please.  🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁  Unimpressed.

The first photo is of where I have a few tanks on a rack.  Right now just 3 x 20H and a 75 on the bottom rack.  You can see the air line I put in and that the tanks are drilled to drain to the utility sink (with the 75 going to the floor drain).  That the backbone of the system I'll build out.  But I need to add some of the purple insulation behind the tanks, which means I need to pull the rack out.  Which means I need to relocate the tanks temporarily.  Etc. Etc.

But that's not all folks!  No, no.  That is not the part that gives this journal it's odd name.  To the left is the section under the stairs.  As you can see there is a lot of purple foam board in there.  This is because until about a month ago it was a seperate room I had built to grow some highland tropical (i.e. plants that like warm days and cool night year round) carnivorous plants.  I'll plunk a photo of them at the end.  Most of the plants are now gone.  I've kind of gotten out of the exotic and weird plant growing world.  Mostly.  The plants at the end are now in a different grow room I built to overwinter the tropical plants my wife likes on the deck in the summer.  But I digress.

The plans here are to extend the area tanks can go down the wall into this space.  It will allow me to keep, and importantly breed, more species.  I also want to spruce it up a bit.  The purple is not my favorite, so that's got to get covered up. I want to turn this sort of dank hole in the house into a place I can sit back and enjoy my tanks.  It'll be a project.  That's for sure.

Okay and those plants.  Here they are.  Still alive, and in my care.

[Torrey]

On 2/14/2022 at 8:17 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I may give this a try.  Thanks!  I've also just remembered that I have freeze dried cyclops.  I always have trouble getting them to sink, but that's probably worth a try too.

------------------------------------------------

And now for the promised "before" photos of the space.  Prepare to be...  Drum roll, please.  🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁  Unimpressed.

The first photo is of where I have a few tanks on a rack.  Right now just 3 x 20H and a 75 on the bottom rack.  You can see the air line I put in and that the tanks are drilled to drain to the utility sink (with the 75 going to the floor drain).  That the backbone of the system I'll build out.  But I need to add some of the purple insulation behind the tanks, which means I need to pull the rack out.  Which means I need to relocate the tanks temporarily.  Etc. Etc.

But that's not all folks!  No, no.  That is not the part that gives this journal it's odd name.  To the left is the section under the stairs.  As you can see there is a lot of purple foam board in there.  This is because until about a month ago it was a seperate room I had built to grow some highland tropical (i.e. plants that like warm days and cool night year round) carnivorous plants.  I'll plunk a photo of them at the end.  Most of the plants are now gone.  I've kind of gotten out of the exotic and weird plant growing world.  Mostly.  The plants at the end are now in a different grow room I built to overwinter the tropical plants my wife likes on the deck in the summer.  But I digress.

The plans here are to extend the area tanks can go down the wall into this space.  It will allow me to keep, and importantly breed, more species.  I also want to spruce it up a bit.  The purple is not my favorite, so that's got to get covered up. I want to turn this sort of dank hole in the house into a place I can sit back and enjoy my tanks.  It'll be a project.  That's for sure.

Okay and those plants.  Here they are.  Still alive, and in my care.

You and my BiL could probably geek out on your carolina pitcher plants for at least a day.

And then he would invite you over to see his entire yard of exotics, his carnivorous, and move on to the bog plants... which would necessitate a visit to the mosquito eating fish.

 

<in other words, ORD😍>

[Odd Duck]

On 2/14/2022 at 9:17 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I may give this a try.  Thanks!  I've also just remembered that I have freeze dried cyclops.  I always have trouble getting them to sink, but that's probably worth a try too.

------------------------------------------------

And now for the promised "before" photos of the space.  Prepare to be...  Drum roll, please.  🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁  Unimpressed.

The first photo is of where I have a few tanks on a rack.  Right now just 3 x 20H and a 75 on the bottom rack.  You can see the air line I put in and that the tanks are drilled to drain to the utility sink (with the 75 going to the floor drain).  That the backbone of the system I'll build out.  But I need to add some of the purple insulation behind the tanks, which means I need to pull the rack out.  Which means I need to relocate the tanks temporarily.  Etc. Etc.

But that's not all folks!  No, no.  That is not the part that gives this journal it's odd name.  To the left is the section under the stairs.  As you can see there is a lot of purple foam board in there.  This is because until about a month ago it was a seperate room I had built to grow some highland tropical (i.e. plants that like warm days and cool night year round) carnivorous plants.  I'll plunk a photo of them at the end.  Most of the plants are now gone.  I've kind of gotten out of the exotic and weird plant growing world.  Mostly.  The plants at the end are now in a different grow room I built to overwinter the tropical plants my wife likes on the deck in the summer.  But I digress.

The plans here are to extend the area tanks can go down the wall into this space.  It will allow me to keep, and importantly breed, more species.  I also want to spruce it up a bit.  The purple is not my favorite, so that's got to get covered up. I want to turn this sort of dank hole in the house into a place I can sit back and enjoy my tanks.  It'll be a project.  That's for sure.

Okay and those plants.  Here they are.  Still alive, and in my care.

Ooooh, sun pitchers!  Nice!

[eatyourpeas]

Oh my, you have been busy @OnlyGenusCaps! It is looking great! 😀

[HillstreamBoy]

Don't worry about it it took took 11 spawns to find how to hatch these guys!! If they hatch then you just have to feed them. Also put some spoonfulls of salt it helps with gobys.  Desert gobies eat everything just dont worry about it. Also let a spawn hatch in the parent tank or take the parent with the eggs just to see when the gobies hatch inyour water temp. Measure exackly the days and them you should have your taktit laid out for the next ones!! Here is a video of theit habbitat when they were rediscoverd in sumbuddys well in the middle of the desert!!!! Let me nhow if you need help my zoom is almost always ready for a fish chat!!!

 

[Patrick_G]

The location of the sink couldn’t be better. I think that’s the shortest fish rack drain I’ve seen. 
 

On 2/12/2022 at 7:15 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

To get there, you need to exit the basement into the garage (cold in a Minnesota winter, and hot in a Minnesota summer), then through a cramped storage area, past the well tank and water treatment equipment, near the boiler, finally to access the one wall I can put tanks on.  This rabbit warren of a space, is my little sanctuary.

Wow, I think we need a video of the journey from basement to fishroom 😁

[Torrey]

On 2/16/2022 at 11:24 AM, HillstreamBoy said:

Don't worry about it it took took 11 spawns to find how to hatch these guys!! If they hatch then you just have to feed them. Also put some spoonfulls of salt it helps with gobys.  Desert gobies eat everything just dont worry about it. Also let a spawn hatch in the parent tank or take the parent with the eggs just to see when the gobies hatch inyour water temp. Measure exackly the days and them you should have your taktit laid out for the next ones!! Here is a video of theit habbitat when they were rediscoverd in sumbuddys well in the middle of the desert!!!! Let me nhow if you need help my zoom is almost always ready for a fish chat!!!

 

How much rain does this area get during the wet season,  and does this little stream dry up completely in the dry season?

Amazing to watch!

[Guppysnail]

This info on the fountain pump is awesome. I have been hesitant to pull Cory eggs because my ziss Hatcher lets fry food fall through and my fluval breeder flow is too slow. I have a few of these pumps around. I never would have thought to hook one up. Thanks. This is a great project. Looking forward to following along. 

[eatyourpeas]

On 2/16/2022 at 10:24 AM, HillstreamBoy said:

Here is a video of theit habbitat when they were rediscoverd in sumbuddys well in the middle of the desert!!!!

Gobies are so fun to watch! Mine can entertain for hours! 😍

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:24 PM, HillstreamBoy said:

Here is a video of theit habbitat when they were rediscoverd in sumbuddys well in the middle of the desert!!!!

That's an incredible video!  I'd not seen it.  There is far more flow than I'd anticipated.  My experience with desert spring fish in Arizona was that the flow speed in the pool was much, much slower.  Explains why the fry and doing alight in the catcher I created.  Thanks for that!

On 2/16/2022 at 12:24 PM, HillstreamBoy said:

Let me nhow if you need help my zoom is almost always ready for a fish chat!!!

Ha ha ha, I might just.  Thanks for the offer!

On 2/16/2022 at 12:44 PM, Patrick_G said:

Wow, I think we need a video of the journey from basement to fishroom 😁

I feel like I gave the expedition notes in short form.  😜

On 2/16/2022 at 2:36 PM, Torrey said:

does this little stream dry up completely in the dry season

These fish are in part of the Great Artesian Basin is Australia.  Incredible source of fresh water - if it was properly managed.  It really is one of the great hydrological feature of our planet!

On 2/16/2022 at 6:59 PM, Guppysnail said:

This info on the fountain pump is awesome.

I am happy if it is useful.  It's been a game changer so far for me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Today was a heavy lifting day.  Rented a van to pick up more foam board and the fake brick paneling to go over it (which was weirdly heavy, and not easy to maneuver into the awkward space I am in on my own).  Now, I just have to get everything prepped in the room.  It's a tight space to maneuver 96"x48" panels as it is, but I'll have to dismantle the rack to install the paneling behind it (yes, I believe this is worth it). That means cleaning up all the junk on the rack, and moving the empty 75gal on the bottom out in preparation for draining the 3 x 20H tanks that have fish in them.  I'll have to work fast to mostly drain the tanks, place them on the floor, dismantle the rack, install and fit the foam-board, then the fake brick paneling, then rebuild the rack, replace the tanks, and refill them with water that I'll have sitting in the room to bring it to temperature in advance, all in a single day.  If next Tuesday isn't a snow day for my kids (right now that's the forecast), I'll be very tired at the end of the day, that's for sure.  Wish me luck.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Been so busy getting things ready to make my space nicer by redoing the wall behind the tanks (will require moving the tanks + fish, and tearing down the rack, getting the wall redone, then rebuilding the rack to get the tanks back up - all in one day I hope). 

But, I wanted to update on the goby fry.  I don't want to jinx anything, but this crazy setup might be working.  Here are a couple terrible photos:

The blurs are the fry excitedly eating freeze dried copepods.  I'd say I have about 15 fry in there so far.  They are kind of dribbling out slowly.  Most are still firmly attached to the rock.  I sort of expected them to hatch within a day or two of each other.  Nope, they've been doing this for almost a week, and there are way more to go!  Not really sure what the end game looks like yet, but for now I'm pleased. 

 

[Torrey]

On 2/18/2022 at 8:32 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

(will require moving the tanks + fish, and tearing down the rack, getting the wall redone, then rebuilding the rack to get the tanks back up - all in one day I hope). 

So, you are an extremely ambitious nerm! Duly noted!

I am hoping it all goes very smoothly for you!

[Atitagain]

This is great, the double fry container solution is the best! I had to look up gobbies they seem like an interesting fish. I will have to research more and give them a try. Good luck with the fry, this will certainly be an interesting follow.

Also interested to see the faux brick.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 2/18/2022 at 10:26 PM, Torrey said:

So, you are an extremely ambitious nerm!

I don't know if I'm ambitious or a poor judge of my abilities. I think I was inspired by the incredible progress @Jimmy made on his Fish Room 64 build.  I am certainly not as talented though, so we'll see how it goes.

On 2/19/2022 at 6:46 AM, Atitagain said:

This is great, the double fry container solution is the best!

Thanks!  @dasaltemelosguy has named it "Fry Falls", and I have decided I quite like as a moniker.  I have an update on it today actually. 

Today was the largest release of the fry into the water.  The system has caught every single one now, over the course of a week.  They all seem to be doing well as far as I can tell.  I was a bit worried about the really high flow rate in there until @HillstreamBoy posted that awesome video taken from their native spring.  The fry seem to be okay with the flow for now.  Or at least they are when they can hide in the X-Mas moss and behind it in a calm spot.  Still, when the freeze dried cyclops  go in many of them rush up into the stream and seem quite capable of dealing with that sort of flow.  So, who knows, this crazy contraption might just work yet.  I hope so.  I'd be really excited to have a bunch of these!

[Torrey]

On 2/20/2022 at 7:52 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I don't know if I'm ambitious or a poor judge of my abilities. I think I was inspired by the incredible progress @Jimmy made on his Fish Room 64 build.  I am certainly not as talented though, so we'll see how it goes.

Thanks!  @dasaltemelosguy has named it "Fry Falls", and I have decided I quite like as a moniker.  I have an update on it today actually. 

Today was the largest release of the fry into the water.  The system has caught every single one now, over the course of a week.  They all seem to be doing well as far as I can tell.  I was a bit worried about the really high flow rate in there until @HillstreamBoy posted that awesome video taken from their native spring.  The fry seem to be okay with the flow for now.  Or at least they are when they can hide in the X-Mas moss and behind it in a calm spot.  Still, when the freeze dried cyclops  go in many of them rush up into the stream and seem quite capable of dealing with that sort of flow.  So, who knows, this crazy contraption might just work yet.  I hope so.  I'd be really excited to have a bunch of these!

I went shopping today, so I could see how much I need to budget for when the LFS orders there next batch of danios.

Last week we did some strategy planning, due to the heater in the pond going out. [I can't believe that I missed any endlers. Moreover, I can't believe that they are breeding at 50° F]

For now, they are able to make more money on endler trios than danios, so I am ramping up endler breeding, and I will get a 6 week notice when more danios are needed. Identified who has the fainting gene, so was able to remove from my breeding stock.🧐

I am excited to try this out.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:19 PM, Torrey said:

Last week we did some strategy planning, due to the heater in the pond going out. [I can't believe that I missed any endlers. Moreover, I can't believe that they are breeding at 50° F]

Sorry to hear about the heater, but I'm glad the danios kept right on going for you!

On 2/20/2022 at 9:19 PM, Torrey said:

For now, they are able to make more money on endler trios than danios

I wonder how long that can last. I have Endler's and they are nothing if not...  Productive.

On 2/20/2022 at 9:19 PM, Torrey said:

Identified who has the fainting gene, so was able to remove from my breeding stock.

Nice work!  Although, those fainting goats were popular for a while.  I wonder what a strain of fainting fish would be like?  😛

On 2/20/2022 at 9:19 PM, Torrey said:

I am excited to try this out.

I'm guessing you are doing some sort of modified version?  The way I have this set up helps me grab fry as they pull away from the rock they are adhered to.  My understanding is danios are egg scatterers (I don't have any, so what do I know!).  Are they eggs sticky?  I'm fascinated to find out what you are up to!

[Jimmy]

On 2/20/2022 at 6:52 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I don't know if I'm ambitious or a poor judge of my abilities. I think I was inspired by the incredible progress @Jimmy made on his Fish Room 64 build.  I am certainly not as talented though, so we'll see how it goes.

Thanks!  @dasaltemelosguy has named it "Fry Falls", and I have decided I quite like as a moniker.  I have an update on it today actually. 

Today was the largest release of the fry into the water.  The system has caught every single one now, over the course of a week.  They all seem to be doing well as far as I can tell.  I was a bit worried about the really high flow rate in there until @HillstreamBoy posted that awesome video taken from their native spring.  The fry seem to be okay with the flow for now.  Or at least they are when they can hide in the X-Mas moss and behind it in a calm spot.  Still, when the freeze dried cyclops  go in many of them rush up into the stream and seem quite capable of dealing with that sort of flow.  So, who knows, this crazy contraption might just work yet.  I hope so.  I'd be really excited to have a bunch of these!

Well thanks for the mention. Great little journal very interesting. I’m far from talented! I didn’t go for precision carpentry but the electrical I gave the most attention to.