Betta not getting better

[Bethany92]

We purchased a betta in July/August, it’s my 3yo’s first fish and he named him Silly. I am brand new to keeping fish, tried researching as much as I could but unfortunately my lack of knowledge may be causing his early death. I noticed his fins were torn up, so I completely re-did his tank - got different substrate and new silk plants and removed any sharp edges on them. Unfortunately, I didn’t understand cycling a tank and just used TopFin water conditioner and TopFin bacteria starter thinking it would be fine and did complete water changes every month and washed everything in his 5gal tank off in hot water. The tank was also an issue as it had a back panel to hide the filter which was too much for him, even on the lowest setting that the company said was safe for bettas. Since discovering Aquarium Co-op, I’ve removed that back panel, got a sponge filter and am currently trying to cycle that tank for when (or if) he recovers. I also have plans for getting live plants instead of the fake ones I have now. I still need ammonia and ammonia test strips. Now, he’s in a 1.5 gal “hospital” tank as of yesterday. I had done a week of BettaFix while he was in his normal tank not realizing it was a waste of money, I ended that on Wednesday of this week. I started him on Maracyn yesterday when I moved him to the small tank. I used the same water and put rocks in the tank with him. I’ve also been adding the bacteria starter about 12 hours after the maracyn. He perked up yesterday but today he’s floating at the top of the tank like he’s dead but he’s not dead. He also ate this morning. I added a few pictures including the most recent test strip of the water he’s currently in, as well as the hospital tank set up. I also believe he is losing his slime coat as there’s white stuff peeling off of him like we peel after a sunburn. And his tank temp is at 77 F

 

Any suggestions or tips? I feel like he’s going to die regardless of what I try to do so I’m hoping there’s something different I can do for him instead of just letting him go. I think the tank needs nitrates based on the test strip but I don’t know how to get those in there. 

[quikv6]

So first and foremost: We ALL make mistakes. That is how we learn. Try not to beat yourself up, which can be hard in itself. On to the fish:

You still have a fighting chance. If the fish ate, that is a great sign. You are on the right track. What you need most is stability. Here is my recommendation:

1) Don't worry that the hospital tank isn't cycled. You will counter that with regular partial (keyword:partial) water changes. By regular, you may want to start with an easy measurement. If the tank is 1.5 gallons...perhaps change 0.5 gallons every other day. essentially 1/3 every other day. You can even do 1/3 daily, if you are up for it.

2) Buy Seachem Prime as the dechlorinator. It not only dechlorinates, but has the potential to detox any potential Ammonia and Nitrite by binding it up for 48 hours, approx. (At your lower PH level., a small amount of ammonia should not have much, if any toxicity.)

3) Aquarium Salt. It will help the fish heal, especially since you are showing outer scale and finrot issues. Combined w/ clean water, salt does wonders. I would start with a teaspoon and a half for the tank (to match the gallons). If you change .5 water, add .5 teaspoon of salt back in. Salt plus clean water does wonders. (You can up the dosage more, but I'd start there).

4) Maracyn can help. Follow the directions. If a waterchange interferes with the dosages, just try to account for adding the maracyn that was removed. (similar to the salt). You can sprinkle a bit of maracyn on the food, and let it soak in a touch of tank water to absorb the meds. It helps, and it can get medicine directly in the gut of the fish, where it can work the fastest.

5) Temperature: I am assuming you have a heater. I have read that Bettas do best around 80, possibly 81 degrees. Try to keep the temp stable, and at least around 78 or a few degrees above. (When water changing, try to match temp.)

6) Relax...and know that you are learning every step, and you will succeed. If not now (though I think you can), then very soon. If and when the betta heals up, you can certainly space out the water changes more based on parameters, once the tank fully cycles.

You can do this!

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by quikv6

[jwcarlson]

Is his tank full of your tap water or some sort of bottled water?  That's softness and lack of buffering that I have zero experience with.  

You said he's in a 1.5 gallon hospital tank now, what tank was he in before?

Regardless of all that.  Take a look into the nitrogen cycle: 

 

 

You can water change your way through cycling, though it's not ideal.  Additionally, some of the bottled bacteria works pretty well to help kickstart.  Tetra SafeStart is one and Fritz 7 (or Fritzyme 7 maybe it's called) is another.  I think Seachem Stability is another.  If you can find one of those, buy a bottle.  Then do a big water change with water that's the same temperature and source as what he's already in.  Add in the starter bacteria after the water change.

I was changing 50% of water twice a day to get my tank through whatever upset happened with my newer tank.  Took awhile (about three weeks), but didn't lose any fish.  And I just monitored daily or twice a day, some days it was only one water change because nitrite levels were registering, but weren't particularly high.  

It's good that he's eating.  If you can do some good, daily water changes (while keeping the temperature and pH pretty stable, he probably has a good chance of recovering).

Edited February 11, 2022 by jwcarlson

[FrozenFins]

Looks like major finrot to me. My betta went through this his entire life and not to long ago passed away. Its defentley a hard disease to treat fully. In my experiance Bettas are tough and they are fighters. With given the right conditions and medications he will survive and hopefully get through this and heal. I agree with @quikv6 completey. He's still eating which is a great sign and means he may not be as close to death as you think. For now I would hold off on feeding. In my experiance rest for bettas is a great way to treat them. Turn the light off, no medications in the water, and no food. I would also suggest to add tannins like Indian Almond Leaves. 

I'm crossing my fingers for you and good luck!

[quikv6]

Great advice above from FrozenFins, especially on how to eliminate stress. What is special about this forum is we can generally all agree that there are multiple ways to achieve success.

The only place I would differ would be with food, and here is my rationale.

1) Food provides nutrients, and will help the fish be stronger to fight an ailment.

2) It is an effective way to administer meds. For example, I have had good results with Kanaplex in the food, but not so much in the water column. In the case of Maracyn (As you mentioned you were using), you can effectively use a far smaller dose in the food, which would minimize harm to any good bacteria, especially since the tank is uncycled.

3) Eating is a good way to gauge progress (or lack thereof) when a fish is fighting (or developing) an ailment.

Just my .02 cents. Everyone on this forum is here to help. We have all been there, and all learn as we grow. Please keep us posted.

 

EDIT: You may want to test your tap water, and see how close or different it is from the parameters you posted.

Edited February 11, 2022 by quikv6

[BAT]

@Bethany92I had the SAME problems with a betta we bought for my son! His name is Cutie. The kids pick the best names.  I came to the forum for help back in January and it was great. See my previous posts on it.

Recs from my experience - I found Kanaplex to work best. Since fin rot is largely caused by gram negative bacteria and Kanaplex covers more gram negative baceteria than Maracyn. (Gram positive and gram negative bacteria are classifications for different bacteria).

I also found that the kanaplex really started to work wonders when i got the salt up to 1 TBSP per gallon. I started at 1 TBSP per 5 gallon, then went to 1 TBSP per 3 gallons, then 1 TBSP per 1 gallon. 

Check out this link from AC. https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/aquarium-salt-for-sick-fish

Finally, i increased the temp of his tank to 80F to reduce any stress he was feeling.

i think you still have a chance to save him!

[Torrey]

@Bethany92 you are here, asking for help. That's huge. You can't know what you don't know, and you were doing the best you could with the information you had.

1. Looks like you already did the research and found out anything that ends in 'fix' can harm the labyrinth organ (bettas have 'lungs' in addition to gills) that they use to breathe air directly. 

2. Bettas are indigenous to Malaysia and are used to 90%+ humidity and 78° to 84° F water. When they are stressed, they will get sick and need warmer water. Most bettas will recover faster at 82° to 84° F.

3. Bettas are used to lots of Indian Almond leaves (IAL) in their water. The tannins *specifically* in IAL have a therapeutic effect on bettas. I have never had success bringing a betta back from the brink, without IAL.

4. Most bettas available in the US are bred in the Philippines, Myanmar, Malaysia, Vietnam, and warm, equatorial countries in Southeast Asia. Fresh water is not affordable, so bettas are bred in brackish waters mixed with fresh water. 

This means it is very, VERY typical for bettas to be bred and raised in 82° to 86° F brackish water, with IAL, and 95% humidity for their labyrinth organ. Then, between 4 to 6 months, the bettas are bagged, shipped to a holding warehouse, flown to the US, put in little cups with a drop of methylene blue, left at store temps (68° to 74°), sold, taken home and 90% of them go to a home with even less knowledge than you had.

That's a whole lot of stress for a little fish.

So the most important things you can do to give him the best chance to recover, is minimize his stress. 

1. Get the tank to a consistent 82°

2. Purchase IAL and add the IAL to his tank.

3. Add salt. You can dissolve a tsp of salt into a gallon jug of dechlorinated water (2 to 4 drops of Prime to 1 gallon water) to use for water changes. Take out half a gallon of water from the quarantine tank, and replace with a half gallon of the aquarium salt added water (try to maintain the new water at 80° to 82° to prevent temperature shock) from the gallon jug.

90% of the time, high quality food (live or frozen daphnia, live or frozen baby brine shrimp, live or frozen cyclops, live blackworms, and live or frozen blood worms), plus clean water with a half gallon of water removed and replaced every day, and temps kept consistently at 82°F so the IAL will turn the water 'tea colored' will bring a betta back on track.

The salt will kill most parasites, and irritate the fish so that the fish will produce a strong slime coat.

The heat (82° F) will allow more calories consumed to go to healing, instead of surviving cool waters.

The IAL will boost the immune system (google 'peer-reviewed research betta Indian Almond leaves) of the betta, and make it easier to fight any infection. 

[Bethany92]

Thank you for the advice!
 

Both tank heaters that I have now are preset ones and only get the tank to 75-78 F (both the 1.5 gal and the 5 gal tanks). So I’m getting a Fluval 50w adjustable heater for the bigger tank and a 5W flat heater for the hospital tank, the reviews say it keeps the water 78-82, so I’m hoping that’s true. I do have a thermometer in the 1.5gal now that I periodically check throughout the day.
 

I use tap water for his tanks and always use a water conditioner and wait for the filter to cycle it through the entire tank for 30min before I ever put him back in. I tested the tap water and it’s not at all different from the posted parameters, which is interesting because I expected there to be more chlorine, but there’s actually a minimal amount.

I got the aquarium salt, the seachem prime, ammonia test kit, and ordered cattapa leaves from aquarium co-op.
 

I did about 1/3 water change and used the seachem prime and aquarium salt in the new water I added last night. The ammonia levels were at 0ppm.
 

He ate this morning and still tried to perk up when he saw me, so I have some hope for him. He’s still acting the same, just kind of laying limp - either floating at the top of the tank or in an odd U shaped curve at the bottom of the tank.

 

I’m continuing the Maracyn as I will have to wait for the Kanaplex to ship. Today is day 3 of the Maracyn, so I’ll finish that out to day 5 and continue with the water changes and trying to maintain a warmer temp for the tank.

[Torrey]

I know that a lot of people here use the Rainbird for a heater failure prevention tool.

I had my last of the adjustable heaters die last week, and the turtle pond is now hanging out at 63° because the turtle isn't safe with the flat heaters.

The rest of my heated tanks [4 of 13] have flat heaters that are not programmable, they are just on. They are plugged into my  Pymeters, which I program to turn the heat on at a specific temp (determined by what is in my QT tank, and what parameters are needed for breeding or grow out tanks), and the Pymeter turns the heater off if the tank reaches the top temp.

I have not lost any more fish with this setup, and I have not had a single fish or snail get a heater burn. Just something to consider if you are going to be keeping bettas. Before my last betta passed, I already knew that I wouldn't be getting anymore. Especially after Gianne explained the role humidity plays in a healthy labyrinth organ. I just can't see a betta having optimal health in the high desert.

That being said, I used 2 flat heaters made for tanks twice the size, and a single Pymeter to control the temp for Krishna. His health was definitely optimal at 82° F, and our desert winters with non-existent humidity were hard on him. I couldn't keep temp in the tank above 78°, and his health reflected that.

So be prepared to possibly use more than one heater, even in a tiny tank. And for safety, I do recommend using an Inkbird or a Pymeter for controlling the temp. Mine yells at me if the temp gets too cold in the winter 😅

[Bethany92]

I will definitely look into getting your suggested heater set up whenever these heaters no longer work. That sounds incredibly helpful compared to the preset ones. I’m hoping the adjustable one isn’t too much of a headache, but we’ll see. The flat heater is in the tank now, thankfully we’re coming out of winter here. During the daytime the tank does get to 78. Overnight is when the tank  colder, maybe drops to 75-76. I may adjust our house heat tonight and see if it helps in addition to the new heater. He seems a little better with the tank at 78, so hopefully it can get up to 83-85 with the flat heater. 

[Bethany92]

So he’s gotten worse over the last 24h. He’s no longer swimming or eating. Just laying on the bottom of the tank. His gills are still moving, but rapidly. Is there a humane way to help him instead of leaving him to just suffer until he dies? The water parameters haven’t changed, I tried a water change hoping it would help but he’s still the same tonight. Not moving at the bottom of the tank, except for his gills. The heater got the water to 82 and there’s been no difference. 

[BAT]

So sorry to hear @Bethany92

@Torrey@Colu what would you recommend? I don’t have much experience.  

[Colu]

On 2/14/2022 at 1:29 AM, Bethany92 said:

So he’s gotten worse over the last 24h. He’s no longer swimming or eating. Just laying on the bottom of the tank. His gills are still moving, but rapidly. Is there a humane way to help him instead of leaving him to just suffer until he dies? The water parameters haven’t changed, I tried a water change hoping it would help but he’s still the same tonight. Not moving at the bottom of the tank, except for his gills. The heater got the water to 82 and there’s been no difference. 

Sorry to hear that if you think he's suffering you can use clove oil to humanly euthanize him he's some information

[quikv6]

Very sorry to hear as well.

[Torrey]

@Bethany92 I'm so sorry. 

I have found clove oil to be an incredibly humane way to let them go over the Rainbow Bridge with less suffering. 

I have clove oil, I actually add a drop of clove oil to a few grains of aquarium salt, and then dissolve the salt in a cup of tank water. The clove oil is more evenly distributed that way, and their breathing will start slowing down. 

I then follow the rest of the directions for adding a little more warm clove oil mixed in water, and finally freeze the fish and ultimately bury the fish under a new houseplant as a Memorial. 

[Bethany92]

He ended up dying last night. I did take him out of the medicated water and put him in clean water from his regular tank I had waiting for him once he was better, thinking maybe that would be more comfortable for him at least. Thank you all for your advice, it was all very helpful and gave me a much better understanding of taking care of bettas in the future.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Bethany92 I'm very sorry you lost your buddy. 😞 

[Torrey]

On 2/14/2022 at 7:47 PM, Bethany92 said:

He ended up dying last night. I did take him out of the medicated water and put him in clean water from his regular tank I had waiting for him once he was better, thinking maybe that would be more comfortable for him at least. Thank you all for your advice, it was all very helpful and gave me a much better understanding of taking care of bettas in the future.

I'm so sorry... it's hard when we can't find the 'magic' fix.

You made him as comfortable as possible, and I am confident that he was grateful. 

[BAT]

Sorry to hear @Bethany92

 

[quikv6]

Very sorry to hear, Bethany.

[BAT]

Sorry @Bethany92😢