Fish need enough darkness at night, right?

[Hobbit]

So, I’ve been staying up too late. I don’t get back to the bedroom until about 1:30am. This means the lights are often on in my kitchen and living room until then, so even though the tank lights are out, the fish aren’t in total darkness by any means.

Having the lights on so late at night can’t be good for me—I mean, my fish. I’m sure it’s disrupting my their sleep cycle. I don’t want to stress them out. This can’t be good for my their long-term health.

Fish fam, I really need to turn the lights out earlier, right? The fish are clearly sleeping, but I mean, the poor things. They can’t close their eyes! Surely they need more than 4.5 hours of true darkness. Right??

[Guppysnail]

I’m very particular about my fish and ambient/tank light. I figure in my area the least amount of darkness is approximately 8 hours. But that darkness is not a blackout. Moon 🌙 and stars 🌟 and fish eye reception cones (I’m sure there is a sciencey name for that 🤣) are much more sensitive than human. As long as they are not super bright lights and dim I’m sure they are fine. 
Now let’s talk about YOU 😁. Make sure in the evening the blue is turned off on all electronic devices it’s proven to disrupt sleep(more sciencey ….). Make certain there is light behind where your eyes are focused (can’t remember why the doctor told me that is important but it is. Fish depend on you to self care so you can care for them. Even if you just sit quietly with your eyes closed and relax/meditate it is rejuvenating to your body. 
All of this is me being the planets biggest hypocrite since I have not been able to sleep more than 5 hours at a time in over 20 years 🤣🤣🤣. Big hugs 🤗 I hope your being up so late is because you find super interesting things to keep your attention and not because of worry or inability to fall asleep. 

[Hobbit]

Thanks @Guppysnail! Part of my (many) weird medical problems is a delayed sleep cycle. I feel tired and foggy during the day, but clear and energetic at night. So it’s hard to motivate myself to go to sleep. Of course it can turn into a negative feedback loop, where if I go to bed later I feel foggier during the day. The good news is I can pretty much sleep any time I try!

In terms of self care, I’m much more motivated to take care of my fish than myself 😄 The blue screen light is a real problem. It’s hard to stay away from screens, whether for work, hobbies, or relaxation.

So I should only have very dim lights on at night for the fish. I can do that.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Hobbit
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[gardenman]

I broke my femur in 2018 and my fish tank lights were on 24/7 for 15 days until I got back home. The fish were fine. Maybe a tick more stressed, and a whole lot hungrier (though they did consume nearly all of the snails while I was gone) but none of the fish died. (My tanks are now all on smart plugs to turn the lights on and off.) Is it ideal for fish to be exposed to light when it should be dark? Probably not. Now I have a pair of Wyze cams pointed at my tanks and sometimes at night I'll sit there with the Wyze app up on my phone to watch the tanks in darkness and the level of activity in the tanks stays the same as if the tanks were lit for much of the time after the lights go out. It's kind of neat to watch a tank in total darkness. You can see stuff happening that you had no idea was happening. At some point later on the fish settle down as they're pretty much nestled down when the lights come on in the morning, but I've watched them for an hour or so with no lights and they behave the same as they did with the lights on.

[Guppysnail]

In the settings to devices turn them to warm or dim some even have blue damper settings. I know (and you folks do to🤣) when I can’t sleep I’m on here. When my medical problems were at the worst my doctor had me force my cicadian rhythm back to daylight as I had the same issues. It took 2-3 weeks and some nights I would lay in bed with my eyes closed the entire time and not actually sleep. Set a bedtime go lay down(this was hardest for me since I was incapable of getting up so could not relocate my body to a set sleep area) lay with closed eyes not even trying to fall asleep. Just lay there set a specific up time and get up and leave the designated sleep spot. It sounds hokey but it did work and I use the reprogramming behavior sometimes now. I felt weird during the day at first when I would just lay there and then force myself up when I was finally sleeping but it did work. 

[Hobbit]

ORD but thanks to both of you!

[lefty o]

i dont think they need total darkness, but as long as they have light, and dark periods they should be fine.

[KatFish]

I have a weird sleep schedule too, due to having chronic migraines and insomnia. 
So whenever I do fall asleep- I need to sleep in total darkness, otherwise the light will keep me up (or stress my migraine worse). 
I also have double blackout curtains- so if it wasn't for a watch or a clock, I couldn't tell you the time of day.
I keep the rule of thumb of I'm up, lights on. I'm going to nap, lights need to be off. 

If I was heading out for errands, I kept the lights on and my music going. 
One, because it helps my dog and well- I dunno, if it helps my dog, maybe it'll help the fish.
If it didn't eh, no harm no foul. 

[Mmiller2001]

I've read somewhere they need a minimum of 5 hours of sleep. However that's achieved should suffice.

[Odd Duck]

I think as long as the lights aren’t bright, it’s no different than a bright starry or moonlit night.  They should be fine.

[Hobbit]

Thanks everyone! Still ORD but I appreciate the input. What I’m choosing to hear is that I should really turn out the lights earlier. 😉😉 What I’m also hearing is that if I don’t, I shouldn’t feel guilty.

My fish do get an extended nap during the day when the tank lights go out, and they do seem to rest during that time. 😌

[Randall from Texas]

On 2/10/2022 at 8:14 AM, gardenman said:

I broke my femur in 2018 and my fish tank lights were on 24/7 for 15 days until I got back home. The fish were fine. Maybe a tick more stressed, and a whole lot hungrier (though they did consume nearly all of the snails while I was gone) but none of the fish died. (My tanks are now all on smart plugs to turn the lights on and off.) Is it ideal for fish to be exposed to light when it should be dark? Probably not. Now I have a pair of Wyze cams pointed at my tanks and sometimes at night I'll sit there with the Wyze app up on my phone to watch the tanks in darkness and the level of activity in the tanks stays the same as if the tanks were lit for much of the time after the lights go out. It's kind of neat to watch a tank in total darkness. You can see stuff happening that you had no idea was happening. At some point later on the fish settle down as they're pretty much nestled down when the lights come on in the morning, but I've watched them for an hour or so with no lights and they behave the same as they did with the lights on.

I knew I wasn't the only one! If anyone wants to see the next level of nerm get a wyze cam so you can check your qt and main tanks when you're on vacation lol. Or supposed to be working, at work.

[PineSong]

I just wondered today whether leaving the lights on in my tanks full of fry could be stunting their growth--They are not getting as much sleep as they would if lights went off when the sun goes down, which means they are burning more calories swimming around and begging like there's no tomorrow anytime someone enters the room. 

I've noticed that my big platies go to bed before everyone else and they do it while there is still lots of light in the room though the tank light is off, around 9:30.

@Hobbit, (or anyone else with sleep onset issues) I work in a field that involves talking to lots of folks about sleep problems. Turning off screens an hour before bed (or better, two!) and using the math/spatial part of your brain by coloring, doing word search puzzles or mazes (on paper, with a pencil),  progressive muscle relaxation, paced breathing and listening to sleep stories are some of the things that can help people wind down the most. Picking a routine that involves 2-3 of these and sticking to it at the same time every night for 2-3 weeks can help you 'reset' and often after that you can shorten the routine to just one. There are lots of training vids on Youtube for progressive muscle relaxation and paced breathing--if you want to try these, find one you like, and practice the same way every time. Apps like Headspace and Calm have sleep stories and there are some free ones on Youtube and probably other apps as well, those are just the ones I know. 

If you want to adjust your bedtime by more than a half hour or so, try moving it back 10-15 minutes at a time over the course of months instead of using a cold turkey "I'm going to bed at 10pm from now on!" when you usually are up until midnight strategy. More likely to work if you give each new time a few weeks to get settled before you move it back even earlier.

I'll stop now! Just want everyone to get good sleep because it's so important for anxiety, depression and ADHD!

 

 

On 2/10/2022 at 10:35 PM, Randall from Texas said:

I knew I wasn't the only one! If anyone wants to see the next level of nerm get a wyze cam so you can check your qt and main tanks when you're on vacation lol. Or supposed to be working, at work.

This would literally be the end of my employment! But of course I am going to go look them up right now. Hope my fish will be okay living under a bridge with me.

[Hobbit]

Thanks @PineSong! Having the house dim (for my fish’s health of course) is already making me feel sleepier. 😃

My sleep issues are frustrating because when I find any sort of intervention that helps address my underlying health issues, it will often shift my sleep cycle back towards normal by 2-3 hours. It happens almost immediately, but unfortunately the effects slowly decrease over time. My homeostasis sucks.

The truth is I don’t want to go to bed earlier because it’s the time of day I feel best. But I do want my fish to be happy and healthy, hence my attempt to find motivation this way! Thankfully I have no trouble falling asleep at any time of day or night. I really feel for the people who can’t sleep.

To address your other point, I’m sure your fish would be fine living under a bridge with you if you chose a bridge over a really clean river. Lots of water changes full of tasty microbes! 😀

[Flumpweesel]

On 2/11/2022 at 6:19 AM, Hobbit said:

The truth is I don’t want to go to bed earlier because it’s the time of day I feel best

I understand that feeling. I'm not a morning person I'm normally on here when I'm trying to wake up enough face the world outside of my duvet to start work at a reasonable time and I never start a tricky task in the morning. But come midnight I'll be forcing myself to stop reading/working/crafting and go to bed. 

My fish lights go off at 10:30pm the will get some ambient light after that but they will relax because that food giant never visits in the dark.

Eye comfort mode on TVs, phones and monitors reduces the blue I use this as standard as I have sensitive eyes. And newer stuff is just silly bright.

[Torrey]

On 2/10/2022 at 6:26 AM, Hobbit said:

So, I’ve been staying up too late. I don’t get back to the bedroom until about 1:30am. This means the lights are often on in my kitchen and living room until then, so even though the tank lights are out, the fish aren’t in total darkness by any means.

Having the lights on so late at night can’t be good for me—I mean, my fish. I’m sure it’s disrupting my their sleep cycle. I don’t want to stress them out. This can’t be good for my their long-term health.

Fish fam, I really need to turn the lights out earlier, right? The fish are clearly sleeping, but I mean, the poor things. They can’t close their eyes! Surely they need more than 4.5 hours of true darkness. Right??

 

On 2/10/2022 at 7:12 AM, Hobbit said:

So I should only have very dim lights on at night for the fish. I can do that.

Most of what I share with people has already been covered, so I am going to bullet point my suggestions. 

1. Eliminate all blue light at least 10 hours before you need to be functional. 

2. If you can program your lights, program red only for the last hour before you need to sleep. Complete night routines as close as to red light time.

3. Watching fish under red light, or reading the most boring manual, tends to slow the brain down. So does coloring, and so do body scans (Ninad, Trauma Healing & Prevention, Calm Whale, and a few other YT channels have free options).

4. Getting morning sun (or blue light on the aquarium) before 10 am helps the pineal gland get itself back on a circadian rhythm. 

Fish, cats, dogs, birds all benefit like people do, from having a gradual ramp up of brighter light in the morning, and a ramp down that includes red lights in the evening. There's a sleep study using zebra danios, right now, lol. 

Originally humans had 2 sleep cycles: people naturally slept in 4 to 6 hour chunks, and were frequently up for an hour or so about 4 hours after falling asleep. Our sociology class discussed the potential 'survive & thrive' benefits, and safety benefits (having a couple of people awake in short stretches throughout the night would keep the larger group safe from predators at night. Would also keep the fire going all night) of sleep shifts.

So it makes sense that some of us function best during the witching hour (midnight to 2 am), and others would need longer stretches of sleep that was uninterrupted, and others do best with a siesta (sleeping from 2 pm to 6 pm) to beat the heat when living on the equator. 

My biggest irritation since my sleep schedule is not accommodated by modern school or work schedules in the US, is how the various teachers and bosses I have had declared my inconvenient sleep schedule was a result of my being lazy😒 instead of acknowledging that there is sociological evidence that my sleep schedule has historically been an evolutionary adaptation. 

[Hobbit]

Thanks @Torrey! I’ve also heard of a study that observed traditional tribal communities and discovered that different age groups tend to be awake at different times: the teenagers are awake latest and the elderly awake earliest, to the extent that there’s very little time when everyone is asleep. They were also concluding it’s for safety reasons. Makes sense!