Want to attempt a Walstad Method Tank any suggestions?

[PattysAquatics]

So to start I am in the research part of wanting to start a Walstad method tank. And anyone with experience in these type of tanks I would love any experienced tips or advice. From what Im reading and watching on YouTube some say just simple soil can lose it’s nutrients in around a year and seen a YouTube video where someone added a lot of different supplements to the soil for it to last for years. So Im leaning towards that but any advice is appreciated. Also I would like to try the no filter part. Anyone try this with fish and not have issues? I plan on doing this in a 20long and stocking with different crypts and root plants and having shrimp and some kind of fish but don’t know what yet. Just know if im not using a filter it should be under stocked. Also question about snails… are Malaysian trumpet snails a bad idea with these tanks? Seeing as how they live in the substrate and could release dirt into the water column? I have them in all my tanks (it’s a love hate relationship lol) they always seem to get in all my tanks. Like I said before any experienced advice or tips are greatly appreciated 

[Scott Stevenson]

I was just looking into Walstad tanks last night. I have no advice for you but will for sure follow this conversation.

[Hobbit]

@Streetwise is our resident Walstad pro, but I can give you a bit of advice based on my experience.

I started with a 55g tank and I wanted to cap my soil with black sand. I was also planning on doing a no-filter tank because I wanted to be as true to the Walstad method as possible.

The big-box fish store was out of black sand the day I was shopping, so I got black gravel instead. And I was cheap so I only bought 2 large bags. *cue worrisome music* 

I let the tank season for ages with just the driftwood and soil and a few hitchhiker snails. Eventually I added plants, and then shrimp and fish. The plants did great, and so did the shrimp!

However, I noticed my fish looked like they weren’t getting enough oxygen. Gasping for air near the top of the aquarium, or just looking really out of breath near the bottom. So I decided to try to get some flow going. I still was trying to avoid a filter, so I bought some wave makers. This helped a bit, but the flow was too much. Trying to wrap them in coarse sponge material just made weird areas of intense suction that the snails would get stuck in. so I ended up with a powerhead that could pull in air bubbles.

Meanwhile, I went to the fish store with my husband who fell in love with the yoyo loaches. It was the only sign of true interest he’d shown in my hobby yet, so I bought them despite their love of digging.

Now, that relatively thin gravel cap stood 0 chance against the loaches and the flowing water. Dirt dust began coating all my plants and the algae LOVED it. My java moss looked like the cobwebs out of the show Hoarders. The sponge on the powerhead intake was constantly getting clogged. The tank just always looked dirty.

The plants only did well for about six months before they ran out of enough nutrients from the soil. The stem plants got weak and pin-holed and eventually all I could grow was anubias, crypts, and sword plants (who are still doing great).

I bought some MTS online and they eventually took over the tank. Absolute infestation. Even with the loaches. I think they were great for the substrate but they did start eating my gourami’s eggs out of their bubble nests. ☹️ Eventually I ended up getting two assassin snails.

So the lessons I learned are:

• A 55 gallon tank is too deep to go without an air stone or filter.
• Put a thick cap on your soil (<—Streetwise will disagree with me here 😅). 
• Don’t introduce any more flow into your tank than you have to.
• Do plan on fertilizing, especially if you want stem plants.
• If you don’t want to fertilize, avoid stem plants!
• Avoid fish that dig.
• MTS are great for the substrate but they can really take over, so be ready to get some control measures.

Hope that helps!

[Streetwise]

Nice description! I won’t necessarily disagree. I will say that there might be a flexible Goldilocks zone. I am probably more wary about cap depth, because I have used a two-layer cap of gravel over sand, and the sand depth has been an issue. If you only cap with gravel, as I have done most recently, you probably have more freedom.

You want just enough cap to keep your soil down, but not too much that you inhibit gas exchange and mulm reabsorption.

Have fun!

[PattysAquatics]

@Hobbitthats a lot of tips , I appreciate it. I know there are so many different ways to do this style of tank so it’s good to hear others experiences. I’m hoping a 20 long will allow me to go filterless but can always get a nano sponge filter if I need to. And don’t want to introduce MTS to this tank but they are in all my tanks and find there way eventually. Fertilizer wise I guess I was going to see how I did the soil and take it from there. 
 

@Streetwise

i looked at your thread with your tanks and think they are awesome. I was going to use the black blasting sand to cap the soil, how much do you suggest to cap it?  and what type of soil do you use? 

[Streetwise]

@Grizzly, I recommend a gravel cap, not sand. I have used topsoil from a local Vermont composter, but I need to find a new source. If you can find a local source for organic topsoil (not potting soil), that should give you the best value. If you have to go commercial, avoid Pearlite or any moisture additives.

I use about 1.5 inches of organic soil. Some of my older tanks have more.

I would do between 0.50 and 1.5 inches of cap, just enough and not too much. Go light at first, and top off just a bit at a time.

[PattysAquatics]

@Streetwise 

Is there an upside of gravel over sand?

thanks on the soil tip. May have to go commercial but will definitely take that into account when choosing 

[Scott Stevenson]

so what do you do long term about replenishing nutrients? I suppose that's were the fish come in, but I can see a heavily planted tank out pacing mulm and such, with what seems the usual light fish load that seems to go along with having a walstad tank.

[Streetwise]

@Grizzly, I prefer gravel caps in all cases. I live with some sand layers, but I don’t like them as much. Gravel allows the the soil to breathe, better gas exchange, and lets mulm rejoin the soil.

[Streetwise]

I am going to have to figure out how to take better substrate photos. This is the 20H that I moved to my apartment. This is a rimmed tank. You can see how the mulm is going into the gravel, but that sand layer is quite the barrier. The white bits in the soil are pockets of gas.

The reboot I did on my oldest tank was to remove almost all of the sand and gravel, separating the layers with sifters. I set the sand aside, and re-added most of the gravel.

[_DiAm0nDs_]

Running a 55gal filtered white water Walsted community tank. Stem plants which I received as 2"-4" cuts off an Etsy plant pack in mid December are 8"-24" in height now. Zero ferts. I believe that the secret lies in the 2 year composted soil from my garden and strong aeration in the water column Im running two air stones one on each end of the aquarium and the Fluval407 at full speed 24/7. Lighting could be better as Im running non plant focused LEDs 12/12. so if you have good lights you should have even better luck is my guess. I have 50lbs of soil under 40lbs of creek sand, the subtstrate is definetly breathing, and having frogs, snails, and loaches and corys at the bottom keeps things moving along. I hope you give this Walsted thing a try and Id encourage you to expand beyond what you read about anywhere. Your vision is as valuable as anybody elses in this style of tank setup. There are too many variables possible to say one thing will work and another wont. 
 

 

[Scott Stevenson]

@_DiAm0nDs_ Nice! Frogs you say! interesting. I like your take on doing your own thing and trying new things out. I'll probably start out by the book and go from there.

[PattysAquatics]

@Streetwise, gravel does make a lot of sense but do you have issues with the soil releasing into the water?

@_DiAm0nDs_, I as well like your take on making it your own and agree. I’m very excited to start this. Hopefully in the next few weeks. 

[Streetwise]

@Grizzly, I am pretty good at adding plants, but if I make a mess, I don’t really worry about it. I just stir the water if I get soil on leaves.

If you have seen my journal, I routinely squeeze out mulm right back into my tanks. I want all the nutrients. My gravel layer is usually clear within 24 hours.

DW talks about various caps, and demonstrates a turbidity test that you can do in a jar. She favors gravel over sand, but as you can see in this thread, there are lots of things that work.

I spent time experimenting and trying different things, including four inch soil (too much!), and various cap layers. I needed to understand the recipe variations for myself.

Remember, DW doesn’t define a ‘Walstad Tank’; she basically published an awesome lab journal, with some Q&A from readers. I agree with her text. I still enjoyed testing +/- variations.

[PattysAquatics]

@Streetwise, I was looking at your journal this weekend. There is a lot of good info there and made it about half way through. Need to finish this week. Thank you for all your tips and everyone else’s. It’s greatly appreciated 

[KittenFishMom]

On 2/6/2022 at 4:13 PM, Streetwise said:

@Grizzly, I recommend a gravel cap, not sand. I have used topsoil from a local Vermont composter, but I need to find a new source. If you can find a local source for organic topsoil (not potting soil), that should give you the best value. If you have to go commercial, avoid Pearlite or any moisture additives.

I use about 1.5 inches of organic soil. Some of my older tanks have more.

I would do between 0.50 and 1.5 inches of cap, just enough and not too much. Go light at first, and top off just a bit at a time.

@Streetwise I have been reading the Walstad book. She says "use either potting soil or ordinary garden soil in my aquariums. They should not be mixed."Walstad, Diana Louise. Ecology of the Planted Aquarium: A Practical Manual and Scientific Treatise (p. 283). Echinodorus Pub. Kindle Edition. 

Do you know how she define 'potting soil" vs "garden soil" I was looking at something labeled organic soil made up of worm castings and peat moss. That didn't sound much like a soil at all. 

I have strange well water. It is very soft with a high pH. so I think something with peat moss might be good, but I don't know. 

You say you are looking for a new source. If you find something that is distributed, please let me know.  

 

 

[Streetwise]

Garden soil might involve food waste. I got my topsoil from a local compost bar, where they had topsoil with a lot of wood waste, and potting soil with more volatile food waste. They got bought out by a local waste management/recycling company when Vermont mandated food recycling, so I need to find a new source.

[Torrey]

On 2/6/2022 at 2:16 PM, Grizzly said:

@Streetwise 

Is there an upside of gravel over sand?

thanks on the soil tip. May have to go commercial but will definitely take that into account when choosing 

Yes, a huge upside.

The sand will create gas pockets, which contrary to old fishwive's tales,  didn't harm any of my livestock. The smell bothered me much more than it bothered them😅

My Walstad link in my signature documents everything I did, and explains what I did wrong, and what I am doing differently with my next set up.

If you want the look of a scape, I strongly recommend using plastic craft canvas to keep your gradient (like a retaining wall), as the Malaysian trumpet snails are the best at turning mulm into the substrate (keeping the soil bioactive), and the side effect is they end up rescaping for you. 

Look at Streetwise's journals as well. 

Plus, there's a journal on a period aquarium that uses no electricity, my brain can't remember whose journal it is...🤔 I just remember the angelfish 😁

Dr. Diana Walstad is quite active still in the Raleigh Planted Tank Society. She has been experimenting with soil in food safe containers and capping with gravel or river rock, to get the benefits of a dirt bottomed tank without the messy business of disturbed soil if you need to move a plant.

In the next couple of months, I'll have more information on the container method.🧐🤪