fish keep dying and I dont know why (SOLVED!)

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 2/10/2022 at 5:39 AM, Guppysnail said:

@mountaintoppufferkeeper would know the affects of different altitudes on dissolved o2 levels. 

I am looking forward to completing my tests as another high altitude keeper of the group and comparing the reaults. We are at 9,137 feet altitude up here. My only similar experience was a co2 diy set up blowing co2 all night full open and killing bucktooth tetra within hours. The video did seem like the water was a bit cloudy along with washed out color and rapid breathing. @Pinky I also keep a resin obsorber on hand like the square polyfilter, or those bag versions chemi-pure etc. They are my what is happening 911 response along with a waterchange just in case something got in the tank I wasnt aware of.  I also have used the polyfilter cubed up in a box filter to give me a sense of water quality based off its color change for what it has taken in. 

@Guppysnail

Im certainly not an expert but have a few observations ive picked up on the mountain. The oxygen in thinner air does change your blood a bit with more red blood cells by volume which allows proper oxygen levels in blood. I do not see why that system adjustment would be limted to mamals though. I assume that it is possible fish produce more blood cells to maintain some level of stability in oxygen capacity at lower o2 concentrations at high altitudes assuming the water conditions are good otherwise. If that is accurate I would also assume that younger fish and those individuals or species without some weakness in their circulatory systems adapt easier.

I do not have my dissolved oxygen stats yet but I will update when I do and try for a few tanks of various flows temperstures and supplemental oxygen to compare.

My tanks all run lots of plants, sponge or box filters, and airstones. Any differences in O2 havent negatively impacted survivability or reproduction of my freshwater puffers, dwarf pike, bolivian rams, rarer kribs, corydoras, or mouthbrooding betta. When I have recieved mature species up here breeding occured within a week or two. I believe that is partially attributable to air pressure difference ( similar to a weather front coming through). I have lost fish within hours to co2 failure on before, a cycle mini crash/a bad bottle of conditioner, or some substance interfering with the oxygen exchange of the fish would do it. More oxygen has never been a bad thing up here. 

My (subject to change) belief is that fish are highly adaptable to a huge range of ph, oxygen, temperature, and food source changes and most will thrive in the oxygen levels we have in aquariums at sea level up to at least 9,137 feet.

There has been limited research on the subject with inverts at altitude:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C6&q=oxygen+saturation+of+water+at+altitude&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DdVOKwTSbhJ4J

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Update my O2 tests.

The indepth tank stats -

75 gallon with heavy plants, 2 box filters, one bio wheel for surface agitation, temperature 74⁰-76⁰, 3/4" of pool filter sand for substrate.

Stocking level : Pao cf palustris 1 adult male 2 adult females

Plants: 1 crinum, +/- 1/2 lb of subwassertang, 12"x12" patch of a dwarf chain sword colony, 15"x6" pogostemon octopus. Anubias barteri, floating versions of moneywort and pennywort, duckweed, 15"x15" sword plant of some sort. 

My O2 test reads about 10 ppm dissolved oxygen at 148pm water temperature 75⁰

Light:  fluval aquasky 900nm usimg these settings. More power has created more algae and less exploring by the puffers. I shoot for a subdued light that still grows plants for the water quality benefits

 

This tank gets indirect and occasional direct sunlight through sliding glass door. Sunrise up here was 653am today. 

 

other two checked :

A 50 gallon with butterfly fish and baby dolphin runs at 77⁰-78⁰ with 30% light power and less live plants or algae. That reading was closer to 8ppm which could be a function of the temperature of the water. 

A 35 gallon tank with goodied and java moss 66⁰-72⁰ depending on the furnace cycle of the day. That was +/-12 ppm dissolved O2

The results were varied and im sure would be lower at sunrise due to the plants. My guess is if i run live plants and airstones it stays between 8ppm and 12ppm of dissolved oxygen up here and the temperature is more of the determining factor than the altitude. 

Final results 1pm-2pm (lights on + 5 hours to lights on +6 hours)

77⁰-78⁰ 50 gallon tank +/- 8ppm  dissolved O2

74⁰-76⁰ 75 gallon tank +/- 10ppm dissolved O2

70⁰-72⁰ 35 gallon tank +/- 12 ppm dissolved O2

[Pinky]

Thats awesome! Thank you for all these stats!