I want to prevent problems when switching from a natural native tank to a tropical tank, this spring

[KittenFishMom]

I am wonder what steps I need to take when switch a natural native tank to a tropical tank this spring, to prevent problems for the tropical fish. I would to plant the tank during the winter, but it might be safer for the tropical fish to wait until spring and completely clean out the native tank and filters before I start planting. 

This is the current set up. 

Aside from 3 plants, everything I have in the tank came from Owasco lake (NY state finger lakes). The tank is a 55-gallon room temperature tank that I never quarantined.  All the fish seem very healthy, but I know from preparing bigger versions of these fish to eat, that they almost always have parasites. I have removed a few leeches from fins in the fall when I set up the tank. I haven't seen any lately. I think the fish ate the rest, but you never know.

The fish in the tank are: 3 bullhead catfish that are the last that I raised this summer, a bunch of blunt nose minnows, 3 banned killifish, a rock bass, and 4 or 5 sunny/bluegills. (all small, probably less than a year old) There are also several large snails. I think Guppysnail thinks they are apple snails. There is one rusty crayfish. There were a lot of small snails, but I think the bullheads ate all of them. I have put in large number of scuds to feed and seed the tank, but I think the fish have eaten most of them.  There is a wide variety of plants floating about, as well as some living in pots with rockwool.

I have 4 HOB filters, some with media, others with plants. I also have an internal Marineland filter.

I have gravel, pebbles and rocks at each end of the tank and an arrangement or large rocks going from one end to the other. 

I think I have 3 options. 

1) I am hoping I can start planting the 55-gallon tank at one end, and work toward the other over the winter, (with the native fish still is the tank) Then in the spring, move the native fish to my 120 native tank (in the garage when the weather warms) and add heaters and then my tropical fish to the 55-gallon tank.

2) I may need to wait until spring. Then remove the native fish and completely empty and clean the 55-gallon tank & filters and start planting it and cycle it before I put the heaters and tropical fish into the tank. This would be to make sure that the native set up  did not have anything harmful left behind for the tropical fish to get infected/infested with.

3) possible do option one, but add a complete quarantine trio on the 55-gallon tank after I take the native fish out, and wait a week or 2 before putting the tropical fish in, while feeding the tank fish food to keep it cycled?

There may be many other options I haven't thought of that might work out better.

Please let me know what you think.

Thank you,

KittenFishMom

[ScottieB]

Sounds like a cool tank! Lets see a picture before you break it down!

I think the best chance of long term success is option 2. That is, move the fish to the garage. Get them settled, even move over some of the media and filters to get them established. Then start with a clean slate in the 55, get some new plants and build from there. You could do the thing with the med trio and QT the 55 if you were in a hurry but that feels like a half measure. 

Besides, I don't know about you but I find something cathartic about emptying, cleaning and starting a brand new tank.

 

[KittenFishMom]

@ScottieB I'm not much of a photographer. You can see 2 photos of my native tank in my December 21 post in "Off Topic" in "Anyone use random décor in theur tanks?".  (sorry about the type, I haven't found a away to correct topic headings). 

[jwcarlson]

I think I'd gut the thing and 'sanitize' it, personally.  Native fish (as you note) actively live with all sorts of pathogens that we can't really imagine.  Seems kind of risky to me.  You can get some seeded media from another tropical tank?  Or maybe you don't have one currently.

In any event, I think I'm all for option 2.

[KittenFishMom]

I have 3 tropical 10 gallon tanks going now. I know those fish will be growing and should go to the 55 gallon tanks sooner than later.

I thought that the votes would be for cleaning out the native tank. I was just hoping I was wrong. Spring and summer are a very busy time, gardening, boating, fish keeping, etc., and I wanted to start on the 55 gallon build during the slow winter months. That would be good for me, but not for my fish.

These fish are all pets, so I will wait until spring to take the natives out and start the cleaning and then the build. It may take the bulk of the summer to get the build completed. Right now I have a cart full of driftwood I need to cull, and a big pile of stream rocks. I ordered more plants today. I might start another 10-gallon to hold the plants for the build until I am ready to plant. That way I can get more substrate and filter material cycling before I start on the 55 tank.

[jwcarlson]

I did a dummy move and ordered all the plants I wanted for my 75 right before buying a good portion of the community that's going in there so that I could QT them.  Now the QT tank is very well over stocked with both fish and plants.  But at least the plants help with being overstocked on fish!

There might be a good chance of "getting away with" not cleaning/sterilizing the whole tank, it's just something I'd be really hesitant to do personally.  

[KittenFishMom]

@jwcarlson I am really hesitant to do it without "the forum" saying it should be just fine. I want to do it, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea, or that I will do it. I want me fish to be OK more than I want to plant the tank over the winter. They are my pets, not my money making game plan.

[KittenFishMom]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:18 PM, jwcarlson said:

I did a dummy move and ordered all the plants I wanted for my 75 right before buying a good portion of the community that's going in there so that I could QT them.  Now the QT tank is very well over stocked with both fish and plants.  But at least the plants help with being overstocked on fish!

There might be a good chance of "getting away with" not cleaning/sterilizing the whole tank, it's just something I'd be really hesitant to do personally.  

You just need a 75 QT. Problem solved 8-)

[Guppysnail]

My personal opinion…wild fish are stronger and hardier than aquarium fish. Most of my fish keeping prior to 1993 was catch my own. (1993 I moved to Las Vegas dessert so….no fish catching) They have parasites worms etc like you mentioned and are not noticeably affected. I want to add keeping wild fish from the 70s to the 90s I NEVER seen ich culmanaris wasting etc etc. aquarium fish on the other hand…well I doubt they can handle what’s in a native tank and many things have non host needed stages and are free range in tanks.  I would break down the tank soak/scrub with hydrogen peroxide and dry. Use new filter media and new plants. That’s just my opinion because I have kept both. 

[KittenFishMom]

I have started passing the word around to see if anyone is interested in my native fish, so I can move them out of the 55 tank sooner than spring and start the cleaning now. All the native fish are growing and look healthy. If I can give away some, I can move the rest to a smaller tank for a few months. The only person I heard from wanted to feed them to his turtles. 😒

I am also feeling a bit overwhelmed by the project.  Will I need to toss all the plants I have in the 55 native tank, including my turnips?

Is there a way to make the plants safe for the tropical fish?

I have the same question about the small snails.

I was planning on using lake scuds to seed the 55 tank. but am now not sure that will be safe either. Will buying them online be any safer?

Will I need to boil the gravel and rocks? If so, for how long?

I have a cart full of driftwood & rocks that I gathered that is sitting outside in sub-zero weather, drying and getting sun bleached and wind blown. Will that need to be boiled too? It has all been in the lake a long time and the bark has all been washed away.

I did move plants, snails and scuds into the tropical tanks from the lake.  The fish in the tropical tanks also all look healthy and are growing well. I don't see any symptoms of anything in those tanks. I have set up leech traps in my 3 tropical tanks, and they were empty after 24 hours. I baited with frozen fish food (bloodworms & shrimps).  I'm wondering if I will need to throw away or boil everything in those tanks before I move anything to the cleaned, cycled, planted 55 tank.

Is moving these tropical fish to the new tank safe? If it isn't, what can I do with them? 

The newbie mistakes are always so frustrating, and discouraging.

[jwcarlson]

I can't answer specifics, I know some people suggest sterilizing plants (1:20 bleach:water solution).  You could probably do that.

The more I think about it, the more I kind of wonder if it wouldn't be acceptable to do something like a combination of med trio and (if possible) leaving the tank uninhabited for some period of time.  That doesn't solve the problem for all pathogens, but would probably at least help with some.  Could also increase the tank temp to help burn through some of that stuff while treating/waiting.

Could also change a bunch of water as well leading up to tropical inhabitants.  

I don't know what you're planning on stocking with and what your quarantine procedure will be like.  But perhaps stocking something hardy into the tank first as a "hero" fish or small school of fish?  I know that's common practice while mixing discus from different suppliers.  

 

Editing to add that this is just me spitballing and thinking on what I might do.

Edited February 3, 2022 by jwcarlson

[KittenFishMom]

I found a home for the native fish in some educational display tanks and have taken EVERYTHING out of the 55 tank and let it dry for a week. I am ready to start sanitizing it. 

Does washing it down with a lot of full strength peroxide, then drying it for another week sound like it should do the trick? I also have a gallon of white vinegar that I could start with, then rise and dry and the follow with peroxide.  I want to get this tank really clean and safe before I start my build on it. I would rather go with over cleaning it than have problems down the road.

I'm open to all suggestions, except boiling it. I really don't have a pot that will hold a 55 gallon tank.

P.S. We took photos of the native tank before we took everything out. Will post them after I get them off the camera and scale them.

[Torrey]

@KittenFishMom were there any disease outbreaks in this tank?

If yes, cleaning everything with H202, or adding bleach (unscented, plain chlorine) to the full tank and running the filter for 48 to 72 hours will kill everything. 

Stir up the substrate, to get everything there.

Then drain it, rinse everything well in the yard, and after rinsing multiple times (to get rid of the bleach) fill up the tank again and add dechlorinator to the tank. Again, run the tank for 48 to 72 hours (until zero chlorine smell. Even better if you have test strips to test for chlorine, test the water **after** you can't smell it anymore).

Nothing (of concern in a tank) will survive a 72 hour bleach dip.

If I am not going to be using the substrate for a while, this is the point I would pour the substrate onto towels, or newspaper, and let it dry in the sun before pouring into a bin for storage.

[KittenFishMom]

@Torrey There was no sign of disease. It was my native tank. Probably lots of pathogens that the tropical fish have never seen. Probably a few leeches too, but I didn't see any.

The substrate is removed. Just rocks and pebbles to be boiled. The tank is bare.

How much bleach for a 55 gallon tank?

We have chlorine pool test strips.

We can not rinse it in the yard, there is snow and a thick layer of ice everywhere.

[Colu]

You can do the  3% hydrogen peroxide solution 1part hydrogen peroxide to 10 parts water leave for 48-72hr with the filter running empty and fill the tank with dechlorinated water and leave it running as hydrogen peroxide quickly breaks down into water and oxygen over a couple of days then you should be ok  to start cycling your tank

[KittenFishMom]

@ColuWOW that sounds SO much easier!

Now to get about 6 gallons of peroxide.

I'll call Cornell's Chem department stock room and see if they can recommend a source.  

[Torrey]

I'm ORD.

If you didn't have anything specific to kill, go with Colu's solution. Less toxic across the board.

[KittenFishMom]

@Colu What strength hydrogen peroxide do I want to use? I assume I want food grade, right?

Amazon has 3& and 12% in gallons

Edited February 20, 2022 by KittenFishMom

[KittenFishMom]

@Colu I think I will need 5 gallons of 30% hydrogen peroxide to add to 50 gallons of water to get 55 gallons of 3% hydrogen peroxide. Does that sound right to you?

[Colu]

On 2/20/2022 at 6:49 PM, KittenFishMom said:

@Colu I think I will need 5 gallons of 30% hydrogen peroxide to add to 50 gallons of water to get 55 gallons of 3% hydrogen peroxide. Does that sound right to you?

3% hydrogen peroxide is what I would use  yes  5 gallons is  the right amount

Edited February 20, 2022 by Colu

[KittenFishMom]

@Colu so the final 55 gallon would be 0.3%, and that is strong enough over time, before it breaks down to kill everything?.

That is good news.  35% food grade hydrogen peroxide would run about $50 to $60 per gallon, times 5 gallons.

[Colu]

On 2/20/2022 at 7:27 PM, KittenFishMom said:

@Colu so the final 55 gallon would be 0.3%, and that is strong enough over time, before it breaks down to kill everything?.

That is good news.  35% food grade hydrogen peroxide would run about $50 to $60 per gallon, times 5 gallons.

Yes that what I use to disinfect nets and equipment works well if I had an out break of something nasty like mycobacterium I would use a higher concentration of hydrogen peroxide  3% fine to deal with most bacterial and pathogens you will likely in counter

[KittenFishMom]

@ColuI'm sorry, but now I am confused again. Do I want 55 gallons of 0.3% or 55 gallons of 3.0% in the 55 gallon tank?

I can wipe it down with lots on 3%, but if I am filling it at 1 to 10, then the percentage drops to 0.3%.

If you use 3% to clean nets, will 0.3% clean a tank?

[Colu]

Sorry for the confusion 3% what you need 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Colu