Ashlyn Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 We have two golden rams in our tank (a pair) and then these two blue rams. Are these both males? If so are two more females required? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mydonkeyfish Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) The bottom one has a more defined fin shape which could express dominance but as far as gender normally male fish are more colorful and females are duller. Good luck😁 Beautiful tank btw😄 Edited January 11, 2022 by Mydonkeyfish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 female gbr normally have a distinct pink belly and are a little smaller than males. IF both of these fishes are mature then i suspect they are males. Historically the fins can be used to identify the sex but with the domestic breeding sometimes it can be a little tricky though the bottom has what I would expect of a male. I think @Fish Folkhas bred a lot of rams and might have an opinion. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashlyn Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 We have had the two blue rams since at least October 1st, and then we got them from the pet store so they were unknown age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_G Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 I’ve read that the females have blue spangles in the black spot while males have a solid black spot. I’d say you have two females, but will defer to @Fish Folk’s expertise. beautiful fish in any case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/10/2022 at 6:56 PM, Ashlyn said: We have two golden rams in our tank (a pair) and then these two blue rams. Are these both males? If so are two more females required? I need to see a 2-min video of them swimming to answer this fairly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashlyn Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 Hopefully this link takes you to the videos of both fish, via Dropbox. I keep being told the files were to big so I used that platform as a roundabout way. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nv68j3rijlylzkf/AABoGngYNP4kLqX3wwjElO43a?dl=0 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) On 1/10/2022 at 10:15 PM, Ashlyn said: Hopefully this link takes you to the videos of both fish, via Dropbox. I keep being told the files were to big so I used that platform as a roundabout way. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nv68j3rijlylzkf/AABoGngYNP4kLqX3wwjElO43a?dl=0 Ok. I’m going to get into this awhile here. Your fish are beautiful! Your tank is gorgeous! I’ll share my personal assessment with you at the conclusion. First off, here is a pair of the very first Rams we ever raised from fry. Their “dad” is the Ram in my Forum logo (first one we ever bought). So, in photos, here is the male… And here are key sexing features… The totally non-jeweled, flat-black spot can be a giveaway. A lengthened 2nd and 3rd dorsal lobe are also helpful. Now, here is the female… Here are key sexing features… Of course the pink belly is a giveaway. Notice several jeweled scales in her spot. There is also some extra bright spots on the lower dorsal. Now, these were very special specimens. They were matured in fully planted tanks with lots of live foods, frequent water changes, and attentive care. Years later, and a completely different line, I’m just watching my young Rams I’ve just bred this past year mature. They’re actually in the same tank as the above photos, but separated by time and different stocking. I’m going to share several photos… Here are my sexing observations… Males are typically larger than females. Here is another photo of this young Ram colony… I can’t properly sex all of them, but I’m 90% sure on three… Now, let’s look at YOUR Rams. From your second video… I apply these sexing IDs… My conclusion is that this one (2nd video) is likely a male. I could be wrong, but that’s my guess. For the first video, I think this Ram is also another male… Hes hard to sex because he’s from a cross with some Electric Blue genetics. One giveaway was the face-off with your Golden male (right side below). BTW, your golden pair is getting ready to spawn here… Note the pink belly on the golden female above. Awhile back, my son bred a ton of Rams for BAP. We crossed Golden with Electric Blue, then crossed them with each other. The gene tree after a few inbreedings looked like this… This summer, the pair I spawned were not as easy to sex as others I’ve had before. Here are the keys though… Awhile ago, we made this video to identify males from females in a larger Ram colony… Very long way of saying… I think you’ve got two fellas. Of course, if they begin laying eggs, I’m all kinds of wrong! Edited January 11, 2022 by Fish Folk 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi_Aquatics Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 @Fish Folk Thanks for sharing! I really learned a lot from your detailed notes! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashlyn Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 Thankyou so much! This is all so helpful! I’m excited to see how the golden ram eggs end up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashlyn Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 @Fish Folk should we add two female rams to the tank or just have a ratio of 3(males):1 (female) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) On 1/11/2022 at 1:41 PM, Ashlyn said: @Fish Folk should we add two female rams to the tank or just have a ratio of 3(males):1 (female) Hmm… how large is your aquarium? I’ve learned that Rams are not really monogamous. They’ll switch partners… but generally, the fittest male and the meanest female find the partners they prefer. It’s not always the “homecoming king & queen” either. I’ve seen females entice subdominant males before. Though males might chase females everywhere, it’s the females of egg layers that decide when it’s time to start a family. Males can try to coax all they want, but usually the girls are the bosses. (Totally opposite from guppies) You’ve got at least one female Apisto in there. Ever see her go at a male Apisto when it’s time? She’ll turn yellow and dance him where she wants. If your tank is large enough, and if there’s several places where a pair can find some measure of undisturbed privacy, you can get away with two mature breeding pairs. Just make sure you get an actual female! Now, it’s possible to breed them in large colony style numbers too. But that’s something you want good experience with… For a very clinical, thorough, step-by-step successful Ram breeding guide, my son made a bunch of videos you can watch on the forum at this link… If you want another loooong journal to follow, I’ve been keeping this one awhile too. Edited January 11, 2022 by Fish Folk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) Rams pair up; you are best with pairs - i would see which male bonds with the female and remove the other 2; if the tank is large (40B or larger); and well structured (leaf liter, driftwood, rocks and other barriers) you can create 2 territories and keep 2 pairs. Edited January 11, 2022 by anewbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashlyn Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 The tank is 150gallons, but is a community tank. The videos are amazing you provided! Here is a picture of the full tank, there is lots of coconut homes, little huts and other houses that are unoccupied still. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Be sure to keep the temp 81-83 range for the rams. The angels will be fine not sure what other fishes you have but rams really prefer the warmer temp. Also they are very sensitive to rapid temp change (water changes and such). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srhymes87 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 I have a question about the 2nd & 3rd extended dorsal lobes. . . .do males tend to have a red or reddish 3rd lobe, whereas females have black? I've noticed my males tend to have reddish 3rd lobes and I wasn't sure if it's something that I may be able to use as another identifier when I have females with extended lobes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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