Close to cycling, need feedback for next steps

[Preyhunter]

Testing done with API Master.

I'm doing a new unplanted (for now) 29g tank setup and am at around week 6.  Dosed with ammonia to start and it was somewhere between 4 and 8ppm and daily Stability.  Took a long time (expected) for nitrites to show up, but went to about 2ppm and have stayed in that range. Today I'm showing .25ppm ammonia and somewhere between 2 and 5ppm nitrites and somewhere between 20 and 40ppm nitrates.  I know that ammonia going down and nitrates going up is a good thing.  It seems this thing is almost done cycling, but info for the end of cycle seems hard to come by. My questions:

Do I just keep waiting until nitrites eventually come down, then do water changes to get the nitrates down?

If I keep waiting, will I starve/kill off my ammonia BB?  Do I need to dose with ammonia?  If so, what's best, use pure ammonia or use fish food?

This is a painful wait.  Before, I'd have dechlorinated the tap water, dumped it in the tank, and thrown fish in.  Now I know better, but it doesn't remove that desire for instant gratification.  Anyway, thanks for any input on how I should proceed.

[Chad]

I'd say you're almost there. I'm not a pro here but have done this a few times so with that said, I'd keep dosing daily (ammonia or fish food but I think ammonia is cleaner) until the nitrites are at zero. .25ppm ammonia wouldn't bother me too much, just something to watch for in case it rises. Get the nitrates to 20ppm or lower via a water change and you're ready for fish! What are you thinking of adding? 

[StanF]

Disclaimer:  I'm not an expert - I only have 1 tank that I cycled.

My understanding is that you need to continually feed ammonia to the tank for the bacteria to consume while monitoring the water parameters.  When you can add 2ppm of ammonia to the tank each day and the ammonia/nitrite levels stay at zero while the nitrates are increasing, then you have completed the cycle.

It sounds like you are very close.

StanF

[Levi_Aquatics]

I agree with @Chad I always ghost feed instead of using ammonia but that is just personal preference. You could also add a few snails to help get the cycle going quicker. 

[Chad]

I used ammonia because the recipe I followed for cycling my first time called for it vs food. Since then I've learned either work so really it's your call. I don't think there's a wrong answer. Snails could help but I don't know how hardy they are to nitrites? What do you think @Levi_Aquatics? I'm not much help with how to hurry it along.

[Preyhunter]

Ok, so consensus appears to be dose with an ammonia source and keep waiting.  I've already waited this long, I can keep it up.  I gotta have fish in this thing by Superbowl though.  It was empty when people were here NYE and asking why there weren't any fish in the tank, knowing that I had set it up at Thanksgiving. 

On 1/10/2022 at 3:49 PM, Chad said:

I'd say you're almost there. I'm not a pro here but have done this a few times so with that said, I'd keep dosing daily (ammonia or fish food but I think ammonia is cleaner) until the nitrites are at zero. .25ppm ammonia wouldn't bother me too much, just something to watch for in case it rises. Get the nitrates to 20ppm or lower via a water change and you're ready for fish! What are you thinking of adding? 

Clown loaches and Bolivian rams.  I had the clowns in the past and really loved them.  Rams will be new to me.

[Levi_Aquatics]

I rarely have measurable nitrites in my water so not sure how snails react to that. I would think you could probably see how it goes as they would help and show how close you are. Some plants also never hurt. 

[Chad]

On 1/10/2022 at 4:12 PM, Preyhunter said:

Clown loaches and Bolivian rams.  I had the clowns in the past and really loved them.  Rams will be new to me.

I've never kept either but I think they're both great looking. Please share with the group, I'm eager to see your setup when you finally get them.

On 1/10/2022 at 4:17 PM, Levi_Aquatics said:

I rarely have measurable nitrites in my water so not sure how snails react to that.

Me neither @Levi_Aquatics, nitrites have always been 0ppm, I have dealt with ammonia bumps (.25ppm) a few times. 

[Levi_Aquatics]

@Chad I rarely have ammonia either knocking on wood. But I struggle with keeping nitrates low even with water changes and plants 

[Chad]

@Levi_Aquatics Of problems to have nitrates are the best one to have, it means you've got a thriving tank. Good for you! And how low do you mean? I only ask because nitrate levels seem to be a hot-button topic if you travel to facebook groups and ask. Something I don't personally recommend and yet I enjoy lurking in from time to time.

[Levi_Aquatics]

@Chad I struggle to keep it under 80-120

[Chad]

On 1/10/2022 at 4:41 PM, Levi_Aquatics said:

@Chad I struggle to keep it under 80-120

Well you're right, that's pretty high. How big and what frequency are the water changes?

Sorry, @Preyhunter, I don't mean to hijack your thread but I can't help my curiosity.

[Preyhunter]

On 1/10/2022 at 4:48 PM, Chad said:

Well you're right, that's pretty high. How big and what frequency are the water changes?

Sorry, @Preyhunter, I don't mean to hijack your thread but I can't help my curiosity.

Haha, no worries.  I've already dosed the ammonia and have a good idea of how to finish this cycle.  Thanks everyone!

[Preyhunter]

I'm dosing the tank with ammonia to 2ppm every other day and the BB is processing it at a rate of about 1ppm/day.  What's weird to me is that the nitrites don't budge from what I can tell is between 2 and 5ppm.  They have been at that level for at least a week. That tells me that there is some conversion to nitrates (at about 20ppm last check) but the nitrites aren't dropping.  Is this normal in a new cycling and I just need to be patient while the nitrite converting BB multiply or something?  It's just strange to me that the level has remained the same for so long.

[Guppysnail]

On 1/10/2022 at 4:38 PM, Preyhunter said:

Do I just keep waiting until nitrites eventually come down, then do water changes to get the nitrates down?

Yes. Throw in a tiny smidge of fish food every other day or three. 
Can I ask why not plants to start?  They make fish keeping soooo much easier and safer for your fish. 

[Preyhunter]

On 1/13/2022 at 11:40 AM, Guppysnail said:

Yes. Throw in a tiny smidge of fish food every other day or three. 
Can I ask why not plants to start?  They make fish keeping soooo much easier and safer for your fish. 

Here's the excuse I'm using...I've never done plants in the past and it seemed like a little too much for me getting back into the hobby after a long layoff, and they create more variables and less control as I'm trying to start this tank.  I do plan to plant the tank once I get it up and running.

[Intuos]

I would suggest adding some plants to the tank as will really help with the cycle as they will bring in bb on them, maybe some floating plants or stems. 

I use ammonia when doing a fishless cycle, you sound like you are on your way to being cycled but without plants it can easily take 8-12 weeks depending on your water choices of substrate and decorator. 

The cycling will be completed when you can convert 2ppm of ammonia to 0ppm of ammonia and nitrite in 24 hours. 

[HH Morant]

I don't think plants speed up the cycle. Plants consume ammonia and nitrite, the same things that beneficial bacteria need. If beneficial bacteria is in the pot the plant came in, just put in the pot.

If you are doing a fish-in cycle, you might want plants to cushion any ammonia or nitrite spike, possibly keeping ammonia/nitrite concentrations to levels that the fish can survive.

Nitrite-eating bacteria always lags ammonia eating bacteria when only ammonia is added to the tank. No nitrite is present in the tank until the ammonia-eating bacteria is already working. You can give the nitrite a head-start by also adding sodium nitrite daily in the beginning. See aquariumscience.org "How I Cycle" article.

I recently cycled a tank using the "How I Cycle" method and the nitrite-eating bacteria still lagged by 2 or 3 days, even though I added sodium nitrite daily from the beginning.

[Isaac M]

Hello @Preyhunter, I just posted about this topic in this thread:

I am referencing it as I think the information I posted is relevant to your post but I do not want to type all of that out again 😂 

[Preyhunter]

29g aquarium

AquaClear 50 with prefilter, 2 foam sponges and bioballs

wave maker

 

Water params today with API Master Test Kit.  I would normally add ammonia to bring it up to 1-2ppm range at this point.  Today I will not do that and test again tomorrow to see if anything changes.  Everything below has been steady for over a week except for ammonia.  If no change, I will do a water change and go from there.  Not really a question, just documenting what's going on.

Temp 78.0

pH 8.2

Ammonia .25

Nitrite 2.0

Nitrate 20

Edited January 14, 2022 by Preyhunter

[Odd Duck]

@Preyhunter, I think you’re very close to being cycled.  I would still add ammonia daily to get to 2 ppm.  When your BB’s are able to convert that ammonia to nitrites, then nitrates within 24 hours, your tank should be ready.  I would do one last challenge of another 2 ppm ammonia after that, then you should be good to go for plants, then fish.

It’s not unusual to get a small spike when you add plants since there will often be some leaves dying off, but after doing a fishless cycle like you have, it may be so small and transient that it may not even show up on your tests.  If you want to wait out some of the inevitable adjustment of new plants, you can do some blind feeding to make sure your BB colonies stay strong or dose with much lower ammonia doses which will keep your BB’s alive just fine now that your colonies are grown and getting more established.

You should also be safe with starting to add fish gradually.  Depending on what kind of fish you want, I tend to start with the least aggressive fish (if you have any that might be aggressive), build populations gradually, and add whichever fish might be most aggressive last.

[Preyhunter]

I didn't do a water change, but I did skip the ammonia dosing.  The ammonia went to 0, nitrites have not moved from 2ppm no matter what I do.  Haven't checked nitrates since Fri (been sick and had gout since the weekend so I've been a little lax).  I'll check all params tomorrow.  If I see 2ppm nitrites again tomorrow, I'm tempted to do a sizable water change just to see if that number changes at all.  I'm sick of seeing 2ppm, it's the bane of my existence these days.  I'm curious to see if the water change would drop it below 2ppm and then if it will go back to 2ppm after a day or two.

[Odd Duck]

On 1/18/2022 at 10:15 PM, Preyhunter said:

I didn't do a water change, but I did skip the ammonia dosing.  The ammonia went to 0, nitrites have not moved from 2ppm no matter what I do.  Haven't checked nitrates since Fri (been sick and had gout since the weekend so I've been a little lax).  I'll check all params tomorrow.  If I see 2ppm nitrites again tomorrow, I'm tempted to do a sizable water change just to see if that number changes at all.  I'm sick of seeing 2ppm, it's the bane of my existence these days.  I'm curious to see if the water change would drop it below 2ppm and then if it will go back to 2ppm after a day or two.

If you ammonia drops with a water change then goes back up you’ve got an entirely different issue.

[Preyhunter]

On 1/18/2022 at 10:32 PM, Odd Duck said:

If you ammonia drops with a water change then goes back up you’ve got an entirely different issue.

All of the ammonia increases have been from me adding it.  I expect ammonia to be at or near 0 when I test pre-change tomorrow.  It was at 1ppm today.

[Odd Duck]

On 1/18/2022 at 11:05 PM, Preyhunter said:

All of the ammonia increases have been from me adding it.  I expect ammonia to be at or near 0 when I test pre-change tomorrow.  It was at 1ppm today.

Yes, it should be gone.  If it pops up, that’s an entirely different discussion.  When you get zero ammonia tomorrow, dose again to 2 ppm and see if it goes to zero in 24 hours.  You should get a nice nitrate rise when you’re fully cycled enough to add fish.  Since you haven’t planted yet, you could start planting anytime after you get conversion of 2 ppm ammonia to zero within 24 hours.