Mopani Wood Soup

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Gator yes in fact I got 3 sadly 2 did not make it out of quarantine. 😞 In the end it turned out ok because the tank they were destined for didn't end up being the right fit for them and the tank that the surviving member went into would have only had space for 1. No Otos in there so the only eggs they could potentially eat are for the Ember Tetras as I only have male Endlers in there otherwise. They seem to be doing rather well. I named them Kirby, after the vacuum cleaner

@GatorI'm not surprised places aren't shipping- it's stupid cold where a lot of them are based- they could do heat packs but I don't know if they'd survive some of this weather at the hubs we're having. My last shipment of plants that came from a city just an 8 hour drive south of me didn't survive despite being packed very well (granted without heat packs but lots of insulation). I could just about feel frost on them. 

[Gator]

@xXInkedPhoenixX; Yep, a lot of planes are grounded because of staffing shortages and the weather, but I've decided against Hillstream loaches. I'm sorry for your losses.

[Torrey]

On 12/28/2021 at 8:18 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@StreetwiseHow does one know if a wood is aquarium safe? I hesitate to use anything that's not in an aquarium store.....which is dumb I know because I'm waaaaaaaaaaay overcharged.  I won't even use the lava rock outside for fear of pesticides. It's more about my bad luck than anything really.

Do you ever read the research on aquariumscience.org? My favorite part of the blog, is having access to the links for the research, especially when looking for my own wood and rocks.

I still rinse, boil and then rinse again, anything from the store to reduce the chances of pesticides getting in my tanks. Stuff I collect from the forest?

Not nearly as worried.

 

On 12/29/2021 at 8:25 PM, Gator said:

I wondered about what woods were safe to use in an aquarium so that I wouldn't have to pay big bucks at my LFS, so I went on google to find out. Soft woods like the Pines, Spruces, and the like are toxic to our fish,

The wood itself is not toxic, it's the saps and pinenes that can be a problem. Don't use green wood, and don't use wood that you can sniff and identify.

Wild harvested woods need to be sundried until the sap is gone.

I live in high desert, about the only things growing are creosote bushes, manzanita, cholla and pines. I currently have 2 pine logs in my spouse's tank, and the snails and endlers love it! Of course, it was paper lite when I put it in, and took forever to sink. The blackworms were able to bury in to the logs which helped them sink eventually. Also keeps the endlers entertained when a blackworm sticks out of the log and they try to catch it to eat it.

 

 

 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Torrey never been on the site but have seen others quote here from it. I'll put it on my list of "to dos!"

Edited December 31, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Torrey]

On 12/31/2021 at 1:32 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@Torrey never been on the site but have seen others quote here from it. I'll put it on my list of "to dos!"

Warning: it can lead to multiple rabbit holes! 😅

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Torrey probably why I've never been there, I'm not done with my other rabbit holes (here and youtube and....)

[Torrey]

On 12/31/2021 at 6:45 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@Torrey probably why I've never been there, I'm not done with my other rabbit holes (here and youtube and....)

ORD 🤣🤣🤣

[Gator]

@Torrey; It makes sense that it would be the sap from Pines and other soft woods that would be the problem against using them in an aquarium, but Pines and other soft woods are blown into lakes and rivers everywhere and enhances the fishing around them. Another wood that the article I read said not to use in an aquarium is Cypress and I don't know why. Cypress grows in freshwater lakes and rivers all over the SE all the way up to Reelfoot Lake in TN., and I've also seen it growing as far North as the Delmarva Peninsula in MD, so I'm kind of on the fence right now. I have Cholla wood, I like it and my fish like it.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Gator agreed I really like Cholla wood for how cool/alien it looks. Cypress is in the Evergreen family so maybe that's why they put it in the same category as Pine?

[lefty o]

my own thoughts on pine etc not harming anything in lakes and rivers vs an aquarium is that there is such a vast quantity of water in a lake/river vs an aquarium so that acids from sap are not diluted in an aquarium.

Edited January 1, 2022 by lefty o

[Gator]

@Torrey; I was in Olympia, WA back in '98 doing a job for the company I worked for. While II was there, I kept hearing people refer to the area East of the Cascades as the "High Desert," but when I left to go back to FL., I went East on I-84 and once I had crossed onto the Eastern slopes of the Cascades, I saw grass growing everywhere I looked. My first impression after seeing green grass growing so profusely was maybe it should be called the a "High Prairie" instead of a "High Desert." What constitutes a "High Desert?" 

[Gator]

@xXInkedPhoenixX; I don't think Cypress are considered evergreens because they lose their leaves (needles (?)) every Autumn, whereas evergreens don't. 

@lefty o: I never thought of it like that, but you're absolutely correct there is more water in lakes and rivers to dilute any toxins Pines and other softwood trees may exude.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Gator had to google it....it says that most species of cypress trees are evergreen with the exception of those in the Taxodium genus which are deciduous. So I guess there's a mix!

Edited January 1, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX
Typos are lame

[Gator]

@xXInkedPhoenixX; You're right, but I don't know about most being evergreen, at least not anywhere I've been, but there is one Cypress tree in Orlando that I don't think I've ever seen the needles fall off. When you go to see your friend in Orlando, ask her to take you to Eola Park in downtown Orlando. If you walk around the park, you'll see a seven-story apartment building that looks like it is built on park property, I forget the name. Next to the waters' edge is a Cypress tree that I've never seen it lose its' needles, ironically enough, this is a Bald Cypress. If the Swans are nesting, keep your distance, they will attack if you get too close, but park personnel should have a safe distance taped off. Eola Park is easy to find, take Orange Ave. N from Sand Lake Road and when you get close to town, the road will split, and you will be on Rosalind Ave. Northbound. When you cross Central Blvd., you'll very quickly see Eola Park on the right. Park, get out, and walk to the right, you'll see that apartment building, and that Cypress tree is right there. That apartment building has an excellent gourmet restaurant on the first floor named "Lee' Lakeside," but I think you'll need a reservation (?). 

[KittenFishMom]

I've read this thread and I have gotten an earworm:

"How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?"

(For those Nerms from PA, a woodchuck is a groundhog. but saying groundhog messes up the tongue twister. Try it, you will see)

I walked along the shore today picking up drift wood for my planted tank build. It is all bleached by the sun and sanded smooth by the waves. No way of know what kind of wood it is. I think roots make the most interesting shapes. They have to work their way around rocks, that are invisible once it becomes driftwood.

I have huge cooking pots, but nothing big enough to boil 3 foot long driftwood.  How do you guys boil big pieces?

I also have 2 boxwood bushes that someone uprooted and tossed in the compose area here. They are now on ther side in my yard to give the bird feeder birds shelter. They have great twisty roots, I don't know if boiled boxwood is safe for aquariums, do you? 

I wanted to make a wooden board frame with a screen bottom to look like a seawall. I would have plants above/behind the board and rocks and pebbles right in front and sand in front of that.  I was planning on getting rough untreated lumberyard scraps of hardwood. Again, I don't have anything that I could use to boil a 20 something long board. (I could bake it, but not boil it.)

I though a maple or beach board would look nice underwater.  

All thoughts are welcome !

 

[Streetwise]

Tannin-stained Amano shrimp:

[Streetwise]

Speaking of wood from the woods:

Comments from my 86-year-old dad:

“Back to the wood piece. In the Fall I cut up a fallen branch of the dead maple at the base of the ledge at the top of the steep part of the drive.

Cleaning up after, I pulled it (the piece), out of the accumulated ground litter, so I think the scruffy part is the remains of the stump of the Hemlock that was there for many years, before it began to get too close to the power line and I had GMP cut it down when they dropped a dead/dying maple just up the drive from it.

The smooth part looks like it was a hardwood tree growing from within or adjacent to the base of the hemlock. They make an intriguing composite display.

Other than cleaning dirt from the base, I did nothing else to it. I first brought it up and placed it on the big rock by the stone wall steps, but its beauty begged to be displayed better, and what could be better than the deck in view from the living room?

Now that I have the photo, tomorrow I will forward it to Bergdahl for review.”

We have a family friend who is a UVM forestry professor, so I will report back!

GMP = Green Mountain Power

UVM = University of Vermont (Universitäs Viridis Montis)

[Odd Duck]

On 1/1/2022 at 5:59 PM, Streetwise said:

Speaking of wood from the woods:

Comments from my 86-year-old dad:

“Back to the wood piece. In the Fall I cut up a fallen branch of the dead maple at the base of the ledge at the top of the steep part of the drive.

Cleaning up after, I pulled it (the piece), out of the accumulated ground litter, so I think the scruffy part is the remains of the stump of the Hemlock that was there for many years, before it began to get too close to the power line and I had GMP cut it down when they dropped a dead/dying maple just up the drive from it.

The smooth part looks like it was a hardwood tree growing from within or adjacent to the base of the hemlock. They make an intriguing composite display.

Other than cleaning dirt from the base, I did nothing else to it. I first brought it up and placed it on the big rock by the stone wall steps, but its beauty begged to be displayed better, and what could be better than the deck in view from the living room?

Now that I have the photo, tomorrow I will forward it to Bergdahl for review.”

We have a family friend who is a UVM forestry professor, so I will report back!

GMP = Green Mountain Power

UVM = University of Vermont (Universitäs Viridis Montis)

ORD, but LOVE this piece!

[Siett88]

On 12/28/2021 at 6:52 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Was boiling wood for my new grow out tank. Tannin soup: Keep and use in tanks or useless and toss? .....man this stuff is dark....

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

So! Much to @Streetwise's potential disappointment I'm sure....I got my light today- and I purposely got a low powered light....well that sucker couldn't cut through the tannin jungle the Mopani has done since I stuck them in the tank.....water change! There's still tea in there Streetsy but I had to tone it down a bit...I'm not ready to go to THAT darkside yet! 😁

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Just a curiosity tannin soup lovers.....I tested this tank today and thankfully it's running through the cycle, no ammonia, a bit of Nitrite .25 and a bit of Nitrate.....why is the pH so high? 8.2? I thought this sort of thing was good to lower the pH? 

[Torrey]

On 1/6/2022 at 8:03 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Just a curiosity tannin soup lovers.....I tested this tank today and thankfully it's running through the cycle, no ammonia, a bit of Nitrite .25 and a bit of Nitrate.....why is the pH so high? 8.2? I thought this sort of thing was good to lower the pH? 

Depending on substrate and the source water, it can take a while. This is why I don't breed discus or bettas in the desert: my Walstad inspired tank which has almost 3" of dirt (decomposing carbon items should lower pH) plus wood, and the water is so dark I can barely see through it, and has only been topped off, no water changes since I broke down my phytoremediation tub.... has taken 6 months to drop from 8.2 to 7.4 pH.

My source water is 8.2 pH liquid rock. Unless I am willing to use RO water, I have high pH.

In tanks that normally get a bi-monthly water change, my 10 gallons will slowly drop pH with tannins. The bigger tanks barely budge. Unless you are in the Denver or Boulder, Colorado area where they have higher pH with almost no KH or GH, your pH is going to be incredibly stable.

If you need to get the pH down, look at remineralized RO water (fish need electrolytes, too), or use bottled water from a consistent source with pH closer to what you are aiming for.... or enjoy tannins in high pH water.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

The pHs in my other 5 tanks stay consistently in the 7 range so usually between 7.2-7.6. I used Caribsea which was basically a left over from my other tanks. The only thing "new" to me @Torrey is Mopani wood. 

[Torrey]

On 12/31/2021 at 10:22 PM, KittenFishMom said:

I have huge cooking pots, but nothing big enough to boil 3 foot long driftwood.  How do you guys boil big pieces?

I don't. If they were bleached by the sun in a lake, I would sun dry and probably soak in my kiddy pool for a week or 2 to make sinking easier. 

If they are from the ocean, I change the water each day to help pull the salt out.

My biggest concern is actually store bought wood, as many landlords of retail spaces pay for pest control to come spray, and I have seen a pest control person spray a rack of aquarium driftwood before, and large aquarium feature stones. That's when I got adamant about a kiddy pool or large dedicated trashcan to soak wood in.

On 12/31/2021 at 8:26 PM, Gator said:

My first impression after seeing green grass growing so profusely was maybe it should be called the a "High Prairie" instead of a "High Desert." What constitutes a "High Desert?" 

High desert is desert at higher elevations. After a rain, everything turns green and blooms, and then if no more rains come, grasses fold/curl into themselves and other plants resume their water conservation process. 

East of Spokane looks very much like northern Mexico, especially the mountains around Copper Canyon, and Ute land in Colorado/ New Mexico. A little rain and it does make people think prairie. The cacti don't become noticeable until the grasses dry back.

High desert doesn't require much rain to green up. Rain will reach the ground at 40% humidity. 

Typically, humidity is around 11%, while prairies generally have low humidity levels at 50% and rain happens at 60% humidity or more. I've lived in high desert, OBX, and prairies, as well as PNW mountains, and the Rockies.

Humidity is a much larger factor than people realize, and it doesn't take much of a shift to really cause dramatic changes in the landscape and vegetation. 

On 1/6/2022 at 8:30 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

The pHs in my other 5 tanks stay consistently in the 7 range so usually between 7.2-7.6. I used Caribsea which was basically a left over from my other tanks. The only thing "new" to me @Torrey is Mopani wood. 

I have never heard of mopani elevating pH.

I would retest, and then examine where calcium carbonate could be hiding in the tank.