Mystery deaths in established tank - kuhlis, endler/guppy hybrid, betta (warning: dead fish photos)

[Jawjagrrl]

Christmas has not been a happy time in one of my tanks, and I'm at a loss. I had to say goodbye to my much loved Betta this morning, and my dog brought me a kuhli loach on Christmas Eve. Two more loaches are missing and presumed lost.

So my 5gal Endor tank is down to 1 endler, 1 kuhli (unless someone is hiding in the At-At deco), 1 nerite snail, lots of bladder snails, scuds and live plants. I had just done regular maintenance Thursday, which includes a vac of 1gal water, replaced with some stress coat and a squirt of easy green for the plants, rinsing the filter floss in the tank water removed, AC strip test.

Ph: 7.6 on the low range kit, 7.4 on the high range kit (anyone else have this issue with water right on the transition space between the two tests?)

Nitrites and ammonia both 0ppm

Nitrates close to 0ppm (floating plants may be up taking most as they are reproducing like mad in all my tanks).

Chlorine 0ppm (we have good quality well water, no chlorine added to the water filtration in weeks).

Gh/Kh: 60-80, 300

Some background info on the tank if you're still reading:

Late August: Tank established with aqua soil, stem plants, terrestrial moss on "trees" and ground, java fern.

Mid September: Betta and nerite snail added.

Late October: 5 juvie kuhli loaches added. One never really thrived, but did ok. The other 4 always together, always out and got nice and fat from snails and sinking food.

Mid November: finished QT of a group of Male Endlers, added 3 to this setup. One died the next day from stress/ph shock (he started in the other betta tank at 6.6ph and was rejected by that betta, do he got drip acclimated between 7.6 to 6.6, then back to 7.6 in one afternoon).

All seemed well for 5 weeks, then one of the two endlers disappeared. No body, nothing. This portrait tank has a very good fitted lid, so it was a mystery. I started counting loaches, only came up with 4. The small one was gone.

In the last two weeks the betta was increasingly subdued, which with good water parameters I wrote off as him becoming more mature (he was 4months old when I got him). The loaches were always all over the tank and he seemed a bit taken aback by their antics and preferred hanging in the floating plants. But then relaxed became lethargic. I couldn't see any issues or signs of disease at all. Everyone else seemed great.

Christmas Eve: I see the dog playing with something on the carpet... one of the loaches. Still fully colored up and wet, so I tried putting him back, but no luck. Lid was on fully, no idea how he made it out.

Today: awoke to find Donald dead at the bottom. No signs of distress. Signs of fin rot? 

So I did another water change this morning including a filter rinse. Can only find 1 loach now, but he seems fine. The endler very active, but probably distressed to be all alone. Wondering if he needs to move to one of the the other tanks.

Really frustrating and sad - Donald was my favorite fish we had in three setups. The other tanks are thriving! The only difference in this tank of note is we do two light periods 8am-noon, 6-10pm. I welcome any insights. I've kept fish a long time and it's disheartening to see your animals thrive, then suddenly everything seems to go sideways. Here's my other two tanks - just got baby shrimp in the smaller setup a couple of days ago.

 

[CalmedByFish]

I'm so sorry this happened. 

I'm guessing other people will have more ideas, but my first thought is electrical current. The mention of filter floss makes me think you have a HOB filter. Heaters can be zappy, too. Have you noticed any feeling of static when you've touched the water? 

Or is there any chance some substance got into the water - like lotion, air freshener, etc?

[Jawjagrrl]

On 12/26/2021 at 1:26 PM, CalmedByFish said:

I'm so sorry this happened. 

I'm guessing other people will have more ideas, but my first thought is electrical current. The mention of filter floss makes me think you have a HOB filter. Heaters can be zappy, too. Have you noticed any feeling of static when you've touched the water? 

Or is there any chance some substance got into the water - like lotion, air freshener, etc?

This is actually one of those self-contained setups with the filtration in a compartment along the back (about a 1:x8" space). I turbocharged the filtration a bit  by ditching the supplied carbon filled cartridge and using some fluval ceramic media, a sponge and my own filter material wrapped around the supplied frame. The heater also fits back there and is new as is all of the equipment for this tank. Not that stuff can't break quickly (especially heaters), but I am not feeling anything. I'll also check all the cords though - the light is also aftermarket but is sealed. I really wish it were something like this that I could easily correct.

We're pretty DIY and organic here - I grow organic produce - so we don't really do anything like air fresheners, etc. 

This tank has the most organic matter in it of the three - the wood all sourced from our farm and boiled before use. There is a fair bit of mulm, but if that were a problem wouldn't my nitrates be really high? 

As I look at the photos of the betta again, I can't help but feel like it was a water quality issue based on his fins. But the loach looks good? So I don't know.

Should I move the endler back in with his old friends in the shrimp tank? Or move them in with him? Or make this a shrimp and rasbora space? Having just one betta now does open up some options, sad as I am to lose my favorite.

[CalmedByFish]

On 12/26/2021 at 1:56 PM, Jawjagrrl said:

Should I move the endler back in with his old friends in the shrimp tank? Or move them in with him? Or make this a shrimp and rasbora space?

For the moment, I'd say to act like this tank and everything in it have something contagious. They may not, but it sounds like you're not sure yet.

So that would mean what's in the tank doesn't go (potentially) contaminate other tanks, and what's healthy in other tanks needs to stay where it is and keep being healthy. If you think taking the one endler out of that tank might help him survive, I'd say to put him in a QT tank, rather than in a tank that doesn't have this problem. I know it's not great for endlers to be solo, but it's also not awful. 

[Jawjagrrl]

On 12/26/2021 at 3:17 PM, CalmedByFish said:

For the moment, I'd say to act like this tank and everything in it have something contagious. They may not, but it sounds like you're not sure yet.

So that would mean what's in the tank doesn't go (potentially) contaminate other tanks, and what's healthy in other tanks needs to stay where it is and keep being healthy. If you think taking the one endler out of that tank might help him survive, I'd say to put him in a QT tank, rather than in a tank that doesn't have this problem. I know it's not great for endlers to be solo, but it's also not awful. 

That makes sense, although in that case everything is already likely compromised as I quarantined everything up front and so use common tools, share plants around, etc. 

One thing that occurred to me with the kuhlis is that when I did the last water change, I had the water level super high. My husband wondered if they could have gotten into the back compartment and then jumped put the back (or got fished out by a cat). The little cover on the back compartment is not good (my only issue with this design).

[CalmedByFish]

On 12/26/2021 at 3:21 PM, Jawjagrrl said:

One thing that occurred to me with the kuhlis is that when I did the last water change, I had the water level super high. My husband wondered if they could have gotten into the back compartment and then jumped put the back (or got fished out by a cat). The little cover on the back compartment is not good (my only issue with this design).

Ooh. Maybe. Could they be  burrowed into the substrate?

[Jawjagrrl]

On 12/26/2021 at 4:35 PM, CalmedByFish said:

Ooh. Maybe. Could they be  burrowed into the substrate?

I have noticed crushed coral bits on the surface soil, which I had at the very bottom when I first built the tank. So almost 2" down out of about a 3" layer. Somebody *maybe* could be in the At-At also, but I generally see all of them all day long (weird for loaches, I know). 

I'd be thrilled if more turn up - I had 3 for sure Christmas Eve.

[Jawjagrrl]

On 12/26/2021 at 4:35 PM, CalmedByFish said:

Ooh. Maybe. Could they be  burrowed into the substrate?

Funny you say that. Dec 26, I have ONE kuhli loach after having 4 Christmas Eve, then 3 when one appeared in my dog's mouth. 

I learned their stripe patterns early on and I'm sure I've seen the same one every day since Christmas. 

Until today! One of the missing ones has REAPPEARED! Over a week later in a tank with 2 rocks, 6 sticks and an AT AT. I've cleaned and gravel vac'd 3x since they disappeared. I had the water level really high on the 24th and feared multiple loaches jumped out. 

The missing loach has a pretty good scrape on it's back - I've added a little xtra stress coat to the tank and replaced the filter media when I cleaned yesterday. Anything else I can do to help him out? Nothing new introduced in a long time parameters have reamained stable since cycle completed in September. We did have a power outage for about 2.5 hours overnight, but the tank was still at 76 degrees this morning.

[CalmedByFish]

On 1/3/2022 at 10:55 AM, Jawjagrrl said:

One of the missing ones has REAPPEARED! 

The missing loach has a pretty good scrape on it's back - I've added a little xtra stress coat to the tank and replaced the filter media when I cleaned yesterday. Anything else I can do to help him out? Nothing new introduced in a long time parameters have reamained stable since cycle completed in September. We did have a power outage for about 2.5 hours overnight, but the tank was still at 76 degrees this morning.

I'm glad another was found! Whew!

I don't have loaches, but I guess the idea is the same for any species: ideal water parameters, good nutrition, and time. If the scrape looks infected, I'd say to put up a separate post to get good ideas of how to help it. Maybe keep the lights lower than usual, since they like to hide?

 

[Jawjagrrl]

On 1/3/2022 at 1:59 PM, CalmedByFish said:

I'm glad another was found! Whew!

I don't have loaches, but I guess the idea is the same for any species: ideal water parameters, good nutrition, and time. If the scrape looks infected, I'd say to put up a separate post to get good ideas of how to help it. Maybe keep the lights lower than usual, since they like to hide?

 

Thanks for the feedback! I have weird loaches... they love being out most of the time 🤪 Part of why this was so surprising to us. Scrape site looks really good, watching it closely. Thanks to our 2 hour power outage he got some xtra dark time as well. Keeping a close watch but he seems unfazed.