In Situ reflection

[Fish Folk]

We all, at some point, reflect on those conditions our aquatic life experience “in nature” versus in our little glass boxes at home. The terms in situ and ex situ are Latin terms which can be used to refer respectively to nature “in place” versus in captivity.

While walking across a footbridge in town just now, my gaze fell upon a small stream.

I know that it contains Darters — my son and I caught and released many together last summer.

What struck me about the stream was the immense amount of leaves in situ.

The most experienced aquarists in our Fish Club keep copious amounts of dry “botanicals” in their aquariums.

I think that our general attempts to scour our home aquariums from leaf litter deserves some rethinking.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Fish Folk

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

This, all of this @Fish Folk! Certainly, there is something to be said for those breeders and keepers who want to have the highest yields, lowest risk for infection/disease, and there also many keepers who want things just so. Personally, I like mulm, I like leaves, I think detritus has as much benefit as it does downside. I keep buying more and different types of leaves - cinnamon, guava, oak, and catapa - in my quest to provide more for my fish in the form of natural humic acids. I often get a pang of guilt when I gravel vac the surface of my substrate wondering if I am removing something that a baby fish or a resident of that aquarium including my microfauna may need to thrive. I guess I am wondering if I am starting to move from a fish keeper to a keeper of an artificial biome? I love when you post up something a little more provocative, something to make us think, I really appreciate having to think a little deeper about our ethos/values as aquarists. 

[HH Morant]

I think the main difference between what I can have in an aquarium and what occurs in the wild is water volume. Aquariums are generally much more heavily stocked than any natural body of water. Because there is so much fish food and fish waste in my aquarium already, I hesitate to put any additional rotting stuff in the tank. 

[Guppysnail]

Natural botanicals are very healthy for plant and aquatic life in my opinion. @HH Morant  Most leaf litter in nature does not hit the water until it is dried out so does not re-release ammonia the way dying plants in aquariums do, only the good stuff. When I first began using almond leaves I was concerned for the reasons you expressed because my source water is high nitrate and I run very high bioload tanks. I tracked my nitrates with measured amounts of food for 2 weeks before using them. I then tracked for the duration it took the leaves to break down. There was no discernible amount of increased nitrates. I also never experienced ammonia or nitrites. However my shrimp became berried at a higher noticeable rate and my shrimplette survival rate seemed to increase. My survival rate on CPD was noticeably higher than when I used to raise them without. Please take this with a grain of salt. I’m not a scientist and this was not a controlled experiment and had many moving parts that could have factored in. So it SEEMS the almond leaves helped and appeared to have no negative impact. 

To add my plants seemed to do better as well

[Fish Folk]

We add wild alder cones…

They grow at nearby swamps…

And we buy Catappa leaves…

Good for bubble nests as well as shrimp nibbling!

Dried Oak leaves are my mainstay. I sometimes tuck them under rocks…

 

[Atitagain]

I started my interest in  blackwater tanks mostly because of the look. I did some research and seen the positive effects leaves and leaf litter have for breeding egg layers and egg scatters. (Others as well but those are what I’m trying to breed) I can very much tell a difference in my fishes behavior. More energetic and much less skittish. The corys I’ve seen a lot of breeding behavior and some eggs on the glass. I haven’t tried collecting any , yet but will soon. My rummynose and cardinals look amazing and I’m gonna start pushing some breeding with them before long. And then my cherry shrimp, I started this tank with 200+. I wouldn’t even try and guess how many now I see new batches of babies almost every day.

The thought of how a tank should look is a matter of opinion. In my opinion I love using leaves, leaf litter, and other natural botanicals. Not just for the look but the added benefits.

[Torrey]

My bettas were definitely healthier with more leaf litter, than less.

I will be out collecting leaves this weekend, and since most of our leaves are not fully dried this year (weird weather, not enough rain + cold snaps) I will bake in the oven at 200° long enough to finish drying the leaves before I store them for future use.

I suspect that I have always been a fish keeper trying to design and maintain a slice of nature, as @Beardedbillygoat1975 discussed above.... starting with my betta and requests for my niece in Malaysia to send me detailed notes on betta habitats to recreate in my tank.

I keep both snails and amphopods in most of my tanks, so I rarely even remove leaves from plants in the aquarium. The fauna are responsible for keeping the flora in their tanks healthy. 😅

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

For those who find benefits with the leaf litter, it lowers pH yes? ...in doing so does it have any negative effects on your snail friends at all? I've been thinking of doing this but wondering if it would be bad for them. 

[Torrey]

On 12/17/2021 at 10:17 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

For those who find benefits with the leaf litter, it lowers pH yes? ...in doing so does it have any negative effects on your snail friends at all? I've been thinking of doing this but wondering if it would be bad for them. 

Yes, my dark tannin tank (Walstad inspired tank) has lower pH due to all the decomposition. My tap water fluctuates between 7.6 and 8.2 pH.

The Walstad inspired tank is only 10 gallons, and after several months the pH has dropped.... to 7.4😬

To really get a significant drop in pH (like when I bred discus) I had to use RO water in addition to almost an inch thick leaf litter bottom....

Liquid rock remains liquid rock, no matter how many botanicals you add, in my experience. Snail shells are very strong, and live bearers do not develop the spinal deformities associated with low calcium water.

Most noticable, is my hornwort stays healthy. (Hornwort is a calcium hog, and will start dropping needles before snails or shrimp show calcium deficiency).

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Torrey ah very nice to know. If my water is already 7.6 pretty consistently do you think I'd get into the 6 range though?

[CalmedByFish]

It stands out to me that this stream is full of leaves, but the water is pretty clear. I've never heard of an ex situ tank with leaf litter and clear water. Anybody know what the difference is?

[HH Morant]

Constant flow. 

[Torrey]

On 12/17/2021 at 10:58 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@Torrey ah very nice to know. If my water is already 7.6 pretty consistently do you think I'd get into the 6 range though?

Supposedly, alder cones will drop pH in sufficient quantities. 

Anytime I want significant changes in pH and softness (like when breeding discus in high desert water = liquid rock) peat moss and RO water were my friend. I have not found the number of alder cones required to significantly lower my water pH🤷‍♂️

[Fish Folk]

@Torrey I am now infinitely curious about your adventures breeding discus! I’m dying to get any suitable pair of mine to breed…

[Torrey]

On 12/18/2021 at 9:30 PM, Fish Folk said:

@Torrey I am now infinitely curious about your adventures breeding discus! I’m dying to get any suitable pair of mine to breed…

My first pair were already a proven breeding pair, and I paid an ungodly amount of money for them. I have never spent that much money on any pet (I have spent a little more on a couple of my service dogs).

They were wildtype, 1st gen in captivity (~1994? First year back in the states). Following year I bought 8 more discus that had a little more turquoise than mine, all were a little bigger than a sand dollar. I was going for hardiness and wanted a brighter turquoise than was available (at least in our area). I was also wary of inbreeding. 

If we were aware of hard water causing breeding problems at that time, I hadn't read about it yet... so it took almost 2 years to successfully raise my first brood. A lot of things we take for granted, now, were about as readily available as a StarTrek com-link then😬

I had swam with all kinds of cichlids in meso and s. america while I traveled as an ex-pat... it just took a while to recreate the right environment. Peat moss was much easier to get, then. I used an upside down clay pot, and many Amazon swords, to entice their characteristic vertical courtship & laying. I left parents with fry, and once I got the pH low enough (rain water really is not an option in the desert, so bottled water, heavily filtered water, and having a large horse trough to "soften" water with lots of marginal plants and decomposing leaves/botanicals) and the peat moss in the breeding tank, and suddenly the eggs were actually hatching.

Flow was strong enough in the front of the tank to allow the discus to *really* swim, but not actually go anywhere. When they get tired, they retreat to an eddy.

They liked having multiple sites to lay eggs, and preferred 82° to 84° water overall. I seem to remember that they seemed more likely to spawn after a water change. I do remember that they didn't like to use the exact same breeding spot and would generally alternate between a sword and the clay pot.

The young are very sensitive to water parameters. They don't tolerate gill damage from high ammonia or nitrites, and exposure to ammonia or nitrites as fry drastically increased health problems in the adult.

As I think of more, I'll add it.

PS: No such thing as too big of a tank, and lots of water changes