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My algae issue


isaly
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I’ve got a green filamentous and hair algae. The tank isn’t inundated but it’s there and it’s constant. I accept that this tank's going to grow algae because this it's still young, about ten weeks now.

So…I’ve been manually removing as much of it as I reasonably can with the filter turned off, stroking and twiddling the stem plants to loosen it, pulling out what I can, letting whatever crap settle and then gravel vacuuming two five gallon buckets worth of crap and water — so it’s about 20% water change. I then turn the filter back on.

I’ve been doing this a couple of times a week. It's plain that the rotala and cabomba will become inundated if I leave it alone and the ludwigia and scarlet temple are things of the past. There are also jungle val and amazon swords, which are doing well — the swords get a dark algae which I manually remove by rubbing the leaves and the val gets a short hair algae that’s much harder to remove manually.

I'm getting plenty of plant growth. I found a runner and a new val plant. The rotala has all kinds of new growth and is nearing the surface of the water.

So, amano shrimp? I'm thinking about ten of 'em because it's a 55 gal. The algae's not grotesque, mind, but it's there, it returns, and I just want to keep it in check.

I’d like to try natural things first before going for H2O2.

 

Edited by isaly
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On 12/16/2021 at 8:31 PM, lefty o said:

cut back on lighting hours a little bit. generally the hair algae's are a good indication of too much light.

I use a finnex planted 24/7 alc, which cost half the price of the fluval. The catch is that the clock in the remote is in 3 hour increments. The light is customizable in spectrum — rgbw led’s. The light fades from one setting to another for any given three hour interval so off @ 9am and full @12noon means fade in from dark to full over that three hour period. that applies between any two settings.

Current schedule is—

9am            off.

12 noon      high but not max

3pm            med

6pm            gentle evening light

9pm            moonlight

12 mid        off

3am            off

6am            off

I’ll re-program it to

9am            off

12 noon      off

3pm            med/high

6pm            gentle evening

9pm           moonlight

12 mid       off

3am           off

6am           off

So the light will begin fading in from dark @ noon. The highest setting I'll use will be @ 3pm and fade to gentle evening from 3 to 6pm. then fade to moonlight @9pm and to dark @ midnight.

That translates to about 5 - 6 hours of variable daylight bracketed on both ends by very low light with a longer very low light period in the evening. 12 hours total darkness / ambient light. This tank is not near a window.

I wanted a slow tail end because I work third shift and I wanted to be able to enjoy the tank in that very low blue-green moonlight before I leave @ 10pm.

Do you think that’s still too much? Can those dim fade in / out periods still allow algae to photosynthesize?

If the algae doesn’t reduce after a couple of weeks I can cut back still further.

...and maybe some amano shrimp would still be helpful?

Edited by isaly
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On 12/16/2021 at 8:45 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Wise man at Oceans Aquarium the co-op just did a video on said: rhizone plants need 3-4 hours, stem plants 6 and that's it! Thinking about trying it since my lights don't do siestas. 

Thanks.

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Since it hasn't been directly addressed yet, yes, there's nothing wrong with trying amanos. Just make sure your water parameters are safe for them first. I've seen my adult platies eat hair algae, and I've heard there are other aquatic critters that eat it. So the answer's yes.

Anything that eats hair algae, would be safe in that specific tank, and doesn't interfere with your future plans for the tank, is a yes. Just research the species first.

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On 12/17/2021 at 10:00 AM, CalmedByFish said:

Here's some species to research, that I've heard eat hair algae. I only have experience with platies though.

Florida flagfish.

Siamese algae eater (I think they get big.)

Rosey barbs.

Check different snail species, too. Seems like I heard of one that eats it.

SAE's do get about 6", and when small eat algae quite bit. when they mature, they dont seem to eat much algae.

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I have non programmable lights so can’t speak to those variables. I have no idea why but if I use the blue lights at all my tanks grow the filament hair algae quick every single time. Others say they have not experienced this but I do. I electrical taped over the blue in one clip on light and manually removed the hair algae. It did not come back. When I was done with the qt tote I was curious because this at the time was the only light I had blue available. I took the electrical tape off and within days the hair algae grew back. Now all my lights have blue and sure enough if I use it hair algae shows up. I just used blue on a small tank again and and have a chia pet heater 🙄Just wanted to share that maybe cut back the blue a bit to see if it helps. 

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On 12/17/2021 at 1:16 PM, CalmedByFish said:

@Guppysnail Electrical tape is a genius idea.

Have you noticed any detriment to your desirable plants when they don't get the blue?

Not at all. I have the same lights in 7 tanks. I run only white light because I can’t shut off blue without also shutting off red. I have cheap hygger lights from Amazon. I have very little algae growth in 5 tanks. The one I used blue and red again to try I have tons of hair algae. The one sitting beside it like almost touching I got hair algae on the side right beside the other tank. Even the ambient color lighting that reached it was enough. My plants do great with just white I can even grow pink and red plants that do great in only white no fertz no CO2. My ludwiga has grown like Val up to the top of a 40b and across now 1/4 of the tank. My AR mini planters near the surface grows out of control. 

Edited by Guppysnail
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On 12/17/2021 at 11:00 AM, CalmedByFish said:

Here's some species to research...

This tank has four white tetras and three serpae right now...and one unidentified snail that I just noticed this week—must have hitched a ride on a plant from the lfs.

This tank's going to be tetras and small corys which, as I understand, will get along fine with amano shrimp. The plan is to put in the first dozen of what's to be a decent sized school of black neons in January. The eventual school size will be 36+ depending, but I really want that school thing. Right now the bio load is so light...I feel like it's wide open spaces.

I think I ought to increase the population of serpae and white tetras just because it seems to be a best practice even though everyone here's happy and healthy—eating and reveling in the space a 55 allows seven small tetras. The addition of a dozen little fish might shake things up a little.

It's not like the tank's disgusting with algae, rather that I am doing manual removal and it's something that, if I don't address it, could get a little ugly.

I could pop down to the lfs and grab half a dozen amano and, along with the changes in photo period, see what happens. I can always put off the first black neons for a while.

On 12/17/2021 at 1:04 PM, Guppysnail said:

I have no idea why but if I use the blue lights at all my tanks grow the filament hair algae quick every single time. Others say they have not experienced this but I do.

That's something to think about.

I've shortened my photo period by three hours of high daylight so I'll go with that for a couple of weeks and see if I have less to pull out manually.

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On 12/17/2021 at 5:26 AM, isaly said:

I use a finnex planted 24/7 alc, which cost half the price of the fluval. The catch is that the clock in the remote is in 3 hour increments. The light is customizable in spectrum — rgbw led’s. The light fades from one setting to another for any given three hour interval so off @ 9am and full @12noon means fade in from dark to full over that three hour period. that applies between any two settings.

Current schedule is—

9am            off.

12 noon      high but not max

3pm            med

6pm            gentle evening light

9pm            moonlight

12 mid        off

3am            off

6am            off

I’ll re-program it to

9am            off

12 noon      off

3pm            med/high

6pm            gentle evening

9pm           moonlight

12 mid       off

3am           off

6am           off

So the light will begin fading in from dark @ noon. The highest setting I'll use will be @ 3pm and fade to gentle evening from 3 to 6pm. then fade to moonlight @9pm and to dark @ midnight.

That translates to about 5 - 6 hours of variable daylight bracketed on both ends by very low light with a longer very low light period in the evening. 12 hours total darkness / ambient light. This tank is not near a window.

I wanted a slow tail end because I work third shift and I wanted to be able to enjoy the tank in that very low blue-green moonlight before I leave @ 10pm.

Do you think that’s still too much? Can those dim fade in / out periods still allow algae to photosynthesize?

If the algae doesn’t reduce after a couple of weeks I can cut back still further.

...and maybe some amano shrimp would still be helpful?

If your moonlight setting is like my moonlight setting, that's a lot of blue dominant light.

I personally have not experienced a correlation between blue light and algae, however many people have experienced a strong enough correlation to be suspect for causation. 

My lights are all on timers: 4 hours on, 4 hours off, 4 hours on... (some tanks are testing a double siesta period and have another 4 on cycle, but that's irrelevant to your post).

My fluval aquasky is closest to your light. It's on my Walstad inspired tank, and is the only tank I have that has not easily grown algae or cyanobacteria. 

It's also in my bedroom. 

Plenty of peer-reviewed research showing that blue light stimulates the pineal gland, and delays sleep... so my Aquasky is programmed for red light only for the last 2 hours of the day. I am not saying that red light reduces algae growth, because my Walstad inspired tank has too many variables:

1. It doesn't have a filter, just tons of plants

2. It's a dirt base capped in diamond blasting sand

3. It was intentionally seeded with a large number of amphopods (scuds), blackworms and snails, initially, to provide food sources while also generating ammonia to start the nitrogen cycle. 

4. It's home to endlers, and they eat a fair amount of algae (and snail eggs) in addition to the amphopods, and frozen food. 

I don't have a control tank to see if the red light at the end of the day has made a difference or not.

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On 12/17/2021 at 10:54 PM, Torrey said:

If your moonlight setting is like my moonlight setting, that's a lot of blue dominant light.

 

 

Each set of leds, r, g, b, and w, has ten possible intensities. My 'moonlight' is blue and green at the lowest of those ten possible settings. It's very dim.

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I'm also battling hair algae and found that reducing light has helped quite a bit, but also cutting back any old/dying growth that isn't strong enough to compete with the hair algae. Make sure that you're not cutting away too much of your plants?

For hardscape using hydrogen peroxide (I only use the 3% stuff, food grade is too intense) as a spot treatment works wonders. 

You can also try adding in more plants so they're utilizing more of the available nutrition + light

Edited by Hyliasdemon
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  • 2 weeks later...

i have the Finnex  alc light a 48 inch one  I hope some one will post what intensity they use. and their custom 24/7 they use ,,  if they have one for low light plants  

I would love to get guide line withe finnex alc .. no co2 and low light plants because the Finnex is a nice light & i like the finnex better then the fluval light i had when i had with no plants 

I have been playing with this light like crazy over the months Their default 24/7 schedule is not good fighting algae …

I tried everything my own 24/7 custom schedule , high , low intensity and  more & less hours and  colors and I have the light on a timer  plus I turn off the blue lights to

i had  brown algae at first but it went away .. but my plants was alive but are not growing just stuck

 ,, but i saw green algae on the glass lid ..last night a  brown spot on my Ludwigia  

I even wrote to Finnex a while back they said 30 %   intensity was considered as low light  & 50 % was medium light  i had in the past  best luck using the light with 30% intensity..with 6 -7 hours .with a siesta between 

But i think the algae this 2nd time around is caused by a chemical problem I am using easy green  and easy root tabs and  easy  green carbon  and a few clay balls for iron under my Hygrophila Corrymbosa  “Cherry Leaf” using with Easy Green  Carbon  I should not have algae  coming back .. i really like the Easy Green root tabs 

been thinking to experiment with Seachem fertilizer to see if they work better if there is a plant deficiency since they  are stuck not growing  for me  been using using  only Easy Green and clay balls for my CherryLeaf for a year now 

 

Edited by Bev C
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On 12/30/2021 at 7:18 AM, Bev C said:

 I have been playing with this light like crazy over the months Their default 24/7 schedule is not good fighting algae …

I tried everything my own 24/7 custom schedule , high , low intensity and  more & less hours and  colors and I have the light on a timer  plus I turn off the blue lights

 

I’ve got the finnex 48 as well. I eliminated the blue light entirely per lefty o’s suggestion.

From 12 mid to 12 noon everything’s off. That way it fades up to a medium intensity at 3:00 pm using the white, red, and green. It then fades down to low daylight at 6 to dim green/red at 9 to off at 12 midnight.

That gives me 12 hours total darkness with ambient light in the am (not near a window), about 5+ hours of medium intensity light in white red and green, and about 6+ hours of dim light including three of really dim light.

After a couple of weeks I had less algae growth, but still hair algae and some bg at the bottom and on my rotalia and cabomba which I have to aggressively keep after.

Last week I decided “screw it” and dosed the tank (55 gal with about 6 gallons worth of gravel so more like 48 gal) with 80ml H2O2. I left it in for 20 min with the filter disconnected, changed 60% of the water and reconnected the filter after having a look inside and rinsing the sponges in conditioned water. I left the other media alone.

My understanding for H2O2 is to make sure to turn off the filter and shut off the flow valve. Turn off the lights and air stones because H2O2 is unstable and will degrade to water and oxygen before it has a chance to be effective. Then dose the tank with 2 ml/gal which, as I understand, won’t hurt the fish as long as they’re healthy and we’re careful. Then do a big water change to lower the concentration and turn everything back on. There'll be bubbles in the tank, which is the extra oxygen separating out.

I’m having even less algae now but I still have to keep after it and really watch for the bg. I’m thinking to cut the light a little more, watching for continued algae growth. Perhaps in 2 weeks I’ll hit it again with H2O2. Perhaps not.

I’m also going to add more plants to compete with the algae. I’m using only Flourish root tabs right now for the root feeders. I seem to be having more luck with root plants than stem plants—they all grow but the stem plants seem to suffer more from algae damage.

I understand that, in a planted tank I’m never going to be without algae. My two criteria are that I don’t want it ruining my plants and I don’t want the tank to smell.

image0.jpeg.d21943af87370ce791943bbffa6fced9.jpeg

image2.jpeg.581542a8ccbb4dc4b8a1fa30189a41ab.jpeg

Edited by isaly
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@isaly  You tank is very pretty love the photos I have 55 gallon to  i love the finnex light would like it better if i can find a final intensity and schedule and food and routine schedule 

thank you for your info and your  light schedule ..  if i leave my light on more then 6-7 hours my algae  gets worse  i do not use blue lights ..   the finnex auto 24 - 7 is algae lover …the custom 24 is not working for me so far

for now and it is the best for me so far I leave my light to 30% intensity with white, red and green lights  on  3 hours ,off with siesta  4 hours on in evening before bed  with a timer 

For a year I only used and tried Easy Green and Easy Green Carbon  and clay pellets ,  i only have Cherry Leaf that needs extra iron and the clay i do not need to buy as much  my Ludwigia does fine just on the iron  in the fertilizer

I followed every one ‘s advice  but it is not working  no matter what  i do with light or how much i feed it is like a yo-yo   

I try something and wait 2-3 weeks and try something new I even tried peroxide with no luck .. been thinking of trying a seachem products to  see if that will work  by it self or along with Easy Green something is missing ..  i think with the food 

I have  killed all the easy beginner plants even  java moss but having  better luck with crypts and ludwigia and amazon frogbit ..   and i am now replacing plants the 1st real bad algae killed   when my nitrates was high  and i have small jungle now but want more plants .. 

Just trying to get the plants i have to stay alive and grow a little better and keep the algae at bay 

I know you can not get rid of algae altogether but mine is just ok but wanting to creep up again .. but there is something missing and i am working on it my water and nitrates are good now   the test says but something is not right..thinking of trying potassium to see if it helps and-see if that is the problem 

My nitrates was very high at first with my first algae .. my nitrates  out of the tap water are high 60 - 80  but the pothos plant helped lower my nitrates in the tank  my nitrates are now 20-40 in the tank ..   

Edited by Bev C
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I do not recall the source, but I read somewhere that blue LED is not seen or used by plants but algae can use it the same as algae can use the red and white.  The source recommended turning off all blue LED if you had an algae problem.  My lights don't have that option so I didn't pay more attention.  As mentioned above, I think it would be worth trying to cut down any blue light.  Good luck.

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On 1/1/2022 at 12:58 PM, Bev C said:

@isaly  You tank is very pretty love the photos I have 55 gallon to  i love the finnex light would like it better if i can find a final intensity and schedule and food and routine schedule 

thank you for your info and your  light schedule ..  if i leave my light on more then 6-7 hours my algae  gets worse  i do not use blue lights ..   the finnex auto 24 - 7 is algae lover …the custom 24 is not working for me so far

 

Thanks for the complimets Bev.

That custom 24 was tricky at first but I finally got it. The problem is that it's 3 hour increments that fade into each other and, so, you have to think about how much daylight and how intense in order to not give too much.

I think I'm going to knock the intensity down a bit further keeping my schedule where it is, although I may find myself cutting another 3 hour period.

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