Sick/injured gold honey gourami?

[andieb]

Hi there, 

I'd really appreciate help from some fish keepers with more experience who might be able to identify what's wrong with my honey gourami. 

Some background: I have three honey gouramis, and periodically one in particular gets picked on more than the others. I'm currently finishing a second round of dosing API General Cure for internal parasites that were primarily affecting my Cory habrosus. Although my gouramis didn't seem sick, they had stringy poop that has now been resolved. 

The problem: This gourami who gets picked on has been acting strange for 3 days now. I noticed on Tuesday night that she wasn't using her right pectoral fin as much. When she wasn't actively using her right fin she was keeping it tucked against her side, at the same time she'd still be moving her left fin. I can't see anything visibly wrong with the right fin. In the past, when the others bit at her tail and chased her, she'd "close up" her tail fin and sort of curve her spine like a submissive dog. But for the past three days she's assumed this posture all the time, even when the other fish aren't around. On Wednesday morning she was resting on the tank bottom and was in the same spot when I got home. She's also started flashing. I took 2 videos of her to show what I'm talking about: https://youtu.be/BoNpv1i47K4 https://youtu.be/B7bl9xjXKb0. Although she's swimming in these videos, she's mostly been inactive, hovering near the surface, taking semi-frequent breaths of air, but she is completely responsive and alert and she's still eating. Her tail looks a bit beat up (could be from fin nipping) and it's a bit discoloured, although this might just be pigmentation because although she's a gold honey gourami, she does get black pigmented speckles all over her body at certain times - not sure if this is stress-related or just normal but it darkens when she's interacting with the other honeys and I've noticed her getting more dark for longer in recent weeks. 

I'm wondering if this could be dropsy, fin rot, injury from nipping, stress from being picked on, idk. 

I'm about to put up a tank divider so that she's separated from the other honeys. 

Stuff I have on hand: aquarium salt, pimafix, kordon rapid cure, and methylene blue. 

Any help is really appreciated because she's my favourite fish, she's so friendly and curious, she comes up to the glass and stairs at me when I sit in front of the tank. To lose her would be to lose what I love most about keeping fish 😢 sorry for being dramatic over a fish.  

Water Parameters:

• pH: 7.2
• Nitrates: 10 ppm
• Hardness: 160 ppm
• Nitrite: 0 ppm
• Ammonia: 0 ppm 
• KH/Buffer: 40 ppm
• Water Temperature: 78ºF 

Thank you!! 

[Colu]

 stress from being bottom of the pecking order can weaken the  immune system and its possible that she has the internal parasites that were affecting your Cory's I would do a third course of general cure  and add a small amount of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 5 gallons  salt at that level shouldn't affect your plants  monitor for a couple of days if your still seeing no improvement I would do a course of kanaplex as clamped fins can be a sign bacterial infection 

[andieb]

On 12/16/2021 at 6:52 PM, Colu said:

 add a small amount of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 5 gallons salt at that level shouldn't affect your plants 

I also have corydoras habrosus and hillstream loaches... will they be able to tolerate that level of salt? 

If I use a partial dose of Kanaplex, I think my loaches and corys would be ok but would it kill off my plants? 

What about a methylene blue + salt bath? Has anyone ever tried this? https://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/07/fish-baths.html

Just trying to compare all the options. Thanks for your help! 

[laritheloud]

What's the size of the tank? I will tell you, I haven't had any good fortune adding salt to tanks for gouramis. Most have either not responded or responded... not great. I'm not totally certain what's going on with her just from your description and your video. It is definitely possible she's stressed from being at the bottom of the heirarchy, and you'd have two solutions for that. The first would be to place her in her own tank away from the pair. The second would be to get more honey gouramis and expand the group; most gouramis thrive better when there are more of them. If you have the room in your tank you could try adding one to three more to your trio.

As far as stringy poop, this is a common symptom in gouramis when they're overeating. Is it more mucusy and white with nothing in it, or is it clumps of poop separated by filament? Because of it's the latter, I'd say cut back on feeding a little bit. They sure do love to eat.

Since she's eating, if you choose to dose antibiotics, I would add it to food. I've had tremendously good luck feeding antibiotics to my fish. That way there is no chance of the medicine hurting anything else in your tank.

EDIT: Wait, I just noticed you posted two videos, @andieb. I see the problem. You have two male honey gouramis and only one female. They're both chasing her and she's stressed from being outnumbered. She also looks extremely gravid.

Edited December 17, 2021 by laritheloud

[andieb]

Wait really?? I was almost certain that I have a male gold honey gourami and a female gold honey gourami (that's the one that's having problems). I'm certain they're gold honey gouramis, I got them at the same time. So the gold (what I thought was female) could be mistaken for a wild-type male... 

The third one is a wild-type and I was almost positive that it was a female because her and the male do a mating dance... quite frequently. Before I got the wild type female, the two golden ones would also do a mating dance. 

To be honest though at one time or another they've all done a mating dance in different combinations so who knows... I'm not certain about their sexes. 

Here are more up-close pics of each of them and what sex I thought they were: 

Female gold honey gourami (the one having issues): 

Male gold honey gourami

Wild-type female: 

[laritheloud]

Is this screencap your wild type 'female'? Fair warning, wild-types are tough to sex. Like. Super tough. Two males do the 'mating dance' as a show of dominance. Is it a frantic dance or is it a bit slower? Dominance will include 'nipping' toward the tail end.

Here are my two wild types for reference.

Female, this is the most she ever colors:


Sub-Dominant Male:

Edited December 17, 2021 by laritheloud

[laritheloud]

I also want to add the caveat that I'm 100% not an expert on sexing -- I spent months asking around and trying to find images that looked like my wild-type 'female' (because I really believed he was a female FOREVER), but nearly everyone I found, from the folks at the LFS to people on specialized forums, would tell me they think he's a male. He doesn't behave quite like my dominant male, but he also looks quite different from my actual wild-type female. The only other possibilities are that there is another colorway of female wild type honey gouramis with a higher color intensity, OR subdominant males behave and take on 'female' duller coloration in the presence of more dominant males.

Regardless, I agree that something else is going on with your sick female and I really hope you can help her out. I think the best first step at this point is to separate her into a new tank or with a tank divider and see if she can rest a little bit. Try another round of general cure in the meantime and see how it goes.

[Colu]

On 12/17/2021 at 12:46 AM, andieb said:

also have corydoras habrosus and hillstream loaches... will they be able to tolerate that level of salt? 

If I use a partial dose of Kanaplex, I think my loaches and corys would be ok but would it kill off my plants? 

that level of salt won't harm your Cory's or hillstream loach and Kanaplex shouldn't harm your loach or Cory's  I have used kanaplex to treat bristlenose pleco and haven't had any negative effects I have used it in my  planted and not had any problems if you are going to treat with kanaplex I wouldn't recommend using a partial dose that just leads to antibiotic resistance and it wouldn't be very effective I would add to food like  @laritheloud has suggested I add the majority of medication to food when I need to treat it more effective 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Colu

[andieb]

Thanks so much for all the advice, extremely helpful. I will make a medicated food mix to feed to the female. I'll have to order Kanaplex online but now that the gold female is separated from the other two, she's more active and isn't hiding as much so I think she'll be fine for the week or two it's take for the meds to arrive. 

@laritheloud this is so interesting to hear that my wild-type "female" might be a male. It would explain a lot about it's behaviour... she/he is a very spicy little meatball. Here's one last pic (her name is Stella but maybe should change it to Stanley).   

I have some videos of the "mating dance" I could share, but I'm just running to work now. They chase each other in circles doing the tail biting thing it sounds like you're describing. Then they do a thing that looks a lot like mating. The wild-type's tail was completely torn up after the first time I put all three of them together but it grew back though without any issues. 

Good to know about the salt, I will keep that in mind. 

My tank is currently a 20 long and it's pretty maxed out for stocking, but I'll be moving this summer and I might use it as a chance to upgrade to a 30 long or 40 breeder or something and then maybe I could get another female. 

[laritheloud]

@andieb sounds like you have a good start! Try to get one or two more females. Your wild type looks male to my eye, and I think it would explain a lot of this behavior. Sounds like two males trying to win dominance, and she is gravid and ready. I think the only reason I got away with two males and one female in one tank for 8 months was because my female gold honey was not matured enough to breed yet. I think she's finally almost there, but we got her extremely little.

Good luck, I hope your female goldie recovers. They are such sweet fish!