Ophitoxaemia Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) I bought one Pogostemon Stellatus Octopus, one Vallisneria, and one Cryptocoryne Wendtii from Aquarium Co-op, within a few weeks, the Vallisneria melted and then disappeared, the Crypt melted and has now two small leaves, while the Pogo grew profusely (see picture, this is after pruning) My Dwarf Sagittaria, which used to grow out the top of the tank and flower, stays only about 1-2 inches high now. The Bacopa caroliniana used to overgrow the tank, but now grows very slowly and loses lower leaves. I would normally think a nitrogen deficiency, but the Salifert NO3 test shows at least 25ppm and I dose with up to 8 squirts of Thrive low-tech fertilizer and SeaChem root tabs. What could I be missing? Thanks! One difference is since I got the puffer, I feed live black worms which the CPD's eat a lot of before the puffer gets enough. As a result, I feed less flake and pellet food. Could I have a phosphorus deficiency? The many details: 1. 25% water change (we have soft water) every week or every other week, dosing: 1/4 teas potassium bicarbonate (KH: 4, I manage KH instead of pH), 1/4 teas Equilibrium (GH: 4-6), 4 squirts Thrive low tech twice a week. Root tabs. (I have have used Flourish with no improvement. Occasionally add potassium and Flourish Iron. 2. Lighting: 6 hours Hygger LED set at 20% of full brightness. Experimenting with more light (over a 3 month period) produced cyanobacteria with no increase in plant growth. Normally have some black beard algae. The first 4 years I had the tank, I had no algae at all. 3. 20 gal, stocked with 11 CPBs, 4 endlers, 1 pea puffer, one ancient panda cory, two kuhli loaches 4. 74 deg F 5. Tank turning 10 years old next year Edited December 6, 2021 by Ophitoxaemia 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_G Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 I can’t think of anything but I do have a question. Is that crypt Parva in the lower right? How old is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophitoxaemia Posted December 6, 2021 Author Share Posted December 6, 2021 It is. About 5 years old 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardedbillygoat1975 Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 More than likely the PSO is a nutrient hog and it will require you to really be aggressive about dosing ferts and trimming it back to allow the other plants enough light and access to nutrients to be able to thrive pun intended. Dwarf sag as well as the crypts will really need aggressive use of root tabs perhaps monthly for a time to get them going. I would expect a leaf per month or sometimes 2 from wendtii. The bacopa is due to the bottom leaves being choked for light, I would cut the stem at one of the nodes where a root is shooting out and replant and pull the leafless stem to the root. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HH Morant Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 I have a lot of PSO. I have stopped fertilizing. It grows like crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophitoxaemia Posted December 6, 2021 Author Share Posted December 6, 2021 @Beardedbillygoat1975 Good to know. My dwarf sag used to grow like crazy before I used root tabs though. I forgot another difference, I used to have two 5 hour photo periods several hours apart, which when I think about it now is kind of like doubling the C02 available for the plants each day. Unfortunately the new light doesn't allow me to do that easily. Maybe the siesta method had a bigger impact than I realized? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardedbillygoat1975 Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 @Ophitoxaemiaanecdotally many of us have found benefit from siestas so could it be? Yes. Certainly could be part of the situation. In the end I think you need to be more aggressive with the trimming and pulling out some of the PSO and do what you can to provide more for your other plants and give it some weeks/months and see. The dwarf sag is interesting because when I left mine alone in aquasoil it didnt do anything but when I started placing root tabs in the area it spread like crazy. I never got it above 3" but its a 2' deep tank with low to moderate light. My plecos ended the dwarf sag so I only keep it in one of my sons tanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophitoxaemia Posted December 6, 2021 Author Share Posted December 6, 2021 @Beardedbillygoat1975I'll pull some of the PSO out, though it is so good at hiding the heater and the fish love it. It's not quite as bad as it seems because it is pressed up in the back half of the tank. I've also set up a siesta system again and we'll see in a few months. I might have had two types of sag, and one type died off during the Time of Too Much Light Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_G Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 On 12/6/2021 at 12:28 PM, Ophitoxaemia said: It is. About 5 years old haha, then I only have to wait 4 more years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophitoxaemia Posted December 6, 2021 Author Share Posted December 6, 2021 @Patrick_GIt was in a pot for several years and could not spread. It's about doubled in the last year since I finally planted them separately 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenman Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 I have a suspicion that when one plant thrives, it releases growth inhibitors to suppress competition. Kind of like how a large cancerous tumor will release antiangiogenesis compounds to starve out competing smaller tumors. I think it's more than just a nutrient issue. I think some chemical warfare goes on between the plants. The big, happy thriving plant wants to keep everything (light/nutrients) for itself, so it releases something to slow everything else down. Frequent large-scale water changes might rectify that if I'm correct. If you're constantly flushing away/diluting whatever the big plant is releasing, the smaller plants will be less affected. I've often had one plant take over a tank and other plants that had been doing well just faded away. We know terrestrial plants engage in all sorts of chemical warfare/messaging. It's called "allelopathy" and has been studied a lot. Diana Walstad mentions in her book that at least 97 aquatic plants have been shown to use allelopathy. The website Aquariumbreeder.com has a detailed article on allelopathy if you're interested. Plants are often a lot more complicated than we like to think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatyourpeas Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 On 12/7/2021 at 4:45 AM, gardenman said: I have a suspicion that when one plant thrives, it releases growth inhibitors to suppress competition. I agree with that statement. The tank that had the anacharis did not see any other plant succeed. I was told it could not be allelopathy, because it takes too much energy from a plant to do that. But if not toxins, definitely depleted the nutrients for everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 This tank has anacharis; you can sort of see it behind the swordtails against the glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophitoxaemia Posted December 18, 2021 Author Share Posted December 18, 2021 Update: I have returned to the siesta method, but it involved a little DIY project which I'll describe here in case someone else wants to do it too. I have a Hygger light, but the timer allows only for one photo period per day, and defaults to blazing 100% brightness if you use a cut-power timer. I bought a N***w timer with 6 programmable events, light ramp up and down, and 100 brightness levels for $13, but the connecters did not fit the Hygger light. I cut out the old timer and spliced in the new one, leaving the 3rd yellow wire unconnected as I don't use the red/blue LEDs. Light didn't work. Trick was the light reverses the red and black wires, which you can see if you look very carefully at the connection, perhaps to prevent such cheapskate tomfoolery as I was attempting. Soldered them and wrapped with tape, turned out nice for the cost. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streetwise Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 @Ophitoxaemia, Diana Walstad mentioned that underwater potted plants don't have the same soil longevity and mulm-nutrient-decomposition rejuvenation as plants in a full organic soil tank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich B Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 It sounds like you and I have those same hygger light's. I bought mine from amazon because they were inexpensive and do a decent job for my small tanks. And, like you ran into the same issue using a timer. I read an amazon review about that problem and how to solve that issue by purchasing male and female adapters as well as at Nicrew dimmer switch which solved the problem. If you're interested let me know and I'll send you the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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