Hairy puffers

[Vinm]

Hi. Been a member for like ten months and have learned tons since I joined. Now I am in need of advise as there is little to no information on breeding hairy puffers. Mine just laid eggs and I am not sure if I should remove them or leave them? If I remove them do I have to add methynol blue? Any help would be great. Where's Dean when ya need him lol. 

[Zenzo]

@Dean’s Fishroom Is sometimes here on the forum. If he sees this, he may have an answer for you. 

[Vinm]

Thanks zenzo😀

[Dancing Matt]

Have you checked out @mountaintoppufferkeeper's posts yet?

[Vinm]

Just did. Was a great thread and asked him a couple questions about the species he was breeding. Just waiting for a reply. 

[Patrick_G]

These fish are so cool! Most pics don’t do them justice. The ones I’ve seen in LFS are like little puppies when they’re begging for food. 
@Vinm I hope you have good luck with the eggs! 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

 Sorry was in office today. @VinmI also have had 3 hairy puffers in a colony since 2018 . But no viable eggs from that group so far. I plan on adding another couple at some point to encourage eggs and fry. Great species still my favorite puffer.

 

For my Pao species breeding I will not pull eggs from the male until they darken up a bit. They took a while to get there with the Pao palustris and he didn't fertilize them if bothered too much. Eggs on slate hard to see but they mostly dark brown before pulling.

I let the male fan the spawn, guard it from all things, remove the fungus, and guard them to the death. This last batch was 21 eggs pulled most left with male. I waited until they were so dark they were clearly ready to pop. 

My best Pao success has been the Pao cf. palustris which involved pulling only a portion of the eggs and pulling them as late as possible close to hatching.  I used some coop airline tube to "pull" with the least amount of disruption. Airline was lightly held by a long pair of tongs to get to the eggs.  I started a siphon with light methelene blue (MB) to theoretically sanitize the tube.

The eggs were siphoned off the cave slate floor out to a container at the same level as the cave on outside the tank. My theory was this slows the speed of travel in the airline. The male attacked that tube fairly ferociously. I used the method si ce  I wouldn't want to disrupt him or the layout.  I left a bunch of eggs for the male guard and he was happy with that. The specimen container i siphoned into had light MB concentration was maybe a drop total and that was then floated in a 20 gallon with a rigid airline at about 1 bubble per second to break surface tension. 

I believe the hairy will be similar in development to the palustris. Vinegar eels starting once egg sack is gone and they stop looking like tiny balloons with eyes. 

Live brine at day 3 on, whiteworms around day 14-16, on from there as they grow. 

Best in heavy planted 20 with boxfilter and tons of food to grow out. They take off at danger any plants will give them a spot to hide and feel secure in my experience. The plants also limit them smashing into the tank sides when they flip out and warp speed away from whatever they think they saw or touched them.

Congrats 

Edited December 7, 2021 by mountaintoppufferkeeper

[Vinm]

Thanks @mountaintoppufferkeeper. I have the vinager eels ready to go. Yesterday there was eggs out in front of the clay pot and it looked as if the male was either eating them or picking them up and moving them back into the pot. I pulled about 30 of them from the gravel because I wasn't sure if they were being eaten. They were clear and seemed to be fertilized as there was a tiny black spot inside. I put them in breeder boxes and this morning I noticed 2 had turned foggy so those got discarded as I assumed they were not viable. Thanks again to all for the info and direction on where to find info. Doesn't seem to be much info on these out there if any so I will try to keep this post as informative and up to date. 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Nice. This is very cool to hear about for me. Looking forward to your posts. Yes I would say if you write anything on  Pao baileyi  it is probably the only info since an Amazonas magazine article from 2019, a Mekong field study in 1989 where they were discovered, my limited posts on the behaviors of my colony, and a few others. I've looked fairly hard for info with nearly no success but assume there are others besides you and I working with them they are just too amazing of a species.

The amazonas article might be worth the read for you on the Pao baileyi breeding process with good photos. 

My limited experience is the Pao eat the bad eggs and not the good.  I'd say you'll have a lot of practice with what works best for your group and water. The hairy puffer is a prolific species based off of a few studies.

3 days +/- old Pao cf. palustris. They take live brine at this point.

These were palustris eggs not fertilized. I thought a few were good but all went bad quickly. I've determined, in my set up with that cave, my male will fertilize eggs after they appear just not sure on his timing yet.

Pulled never developed. 

I also started feeding whiteworms at about day 16.

I do daphnia seasonally up here. My pond just freezes solid in october and thaws back out in may. I haven't broke the code on growing daphnia in big numbers inside just yet but its on the list to break the code on those. 

Baby puffers eat much more food than other fry I've raised to the 40+ day mark. I'd put my guess at their body weight in food 2 or 3 times a day while growing. Hasn't slowed up yet with the palustris. This is one of them last night post worm feeding

 

When the Hairy Puffer was first found 1989 field report with sketch drawings

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C6&q=baileyi+puffer&oq=baileyi#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3D1neKeu64vzQJ

[Vinm]

Dad still standing watch on day 2. 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Great sign. Nice batch of eggs there. This going to be amazing.

 Congrats 

[Vinm]

Day 4 made it home from work today and checked the eggs out. Most of the ones I removed and placed in separate fry containers have turned white. I think it's because they were not fertilized. There is still about 5 that look good in each of the 2 containers. Dad is still hovering over the eggs left In the tank but some of them have been eaten. There are probably about half left. Ide say around 40-50. I have not noticed any turning black as of yet. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

ORD, if he is still hovering you have to think they are viable. I think this is all positive and points to him being a great poppa for future broods!

[Vinm]

Day 7 dads still hovering. Down to about 30 eggs in the tank, 5 of 20 in breeding box one, and I can only find 1 of 20 that's good in breeding box 2. Breeding box 1 is clean and has a little pice of Java moss in it and breeding box 2 has Alot more Java moss and mulm which makes it really hard to see the viable eggs. I can clearly see the fry in the eggs now and am debating pulling the fry from the main tank to put into breeding box 1 or a separate container of its own. Not sure what to do? If the eggs hatch in the main tank there's very little chance I'll find the fry as it's heavily planted. One thing I learned is that snails love and I mean LOVE to eat the eggs. I had to put filter floss over the intake to the breeding boxes to keep them out. 

[Vinm]

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Vinmthis is looking great, fingers & toes crossed for you!

[Vinm]

Came home today and when the lights came on I found wiggles trying to get out of their eggs!!! 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Vinmcongratulations, well done!

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

great stuff I bet you are 3 days to brine shrimp and a good amount of hair puffers growing from there 

[Vinm]

Here's what's going on today. Puffers seem to be stuck to the egg. Anyone know if they eat by mouth at this point or are they just absorbing the egg? 

[Vinm]

Breeding box 1 has 5 of 6 eggs still viable and 2 of those are on the outside of the eggs pictured above. Breeding box 2 seems to have failed but it's really hard to see through all the Java moss and mulm. The 32 eggs from the main tank are all alive but all still inside the eggs. I removed the entire pot last night and placed it in its own container for the remaining of the hatch out because they would be Un retrieveable from the tank because it is heavily planted. Any ad ise on if the fry staying attached to the egg is normal or not would be awsome. 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Normal my experience with the palustris. I do not believe my Pao fry eat by mouth before the yolk sack is absorbed. That mulm and your plants should also give you a bit of a safety net of things they can pick at once hungry.

The Pao seem to take a few days to absorb that yolk sack. To my eye it looks like yours are around this growth which was day one after hatching for the palustris

I wait until they are no longer look like a ball with eyes and are free swimming which is fairly quick. This is day 2 with free swimming next to a hard airline tube. They took vinegar eels once the yolk sac was gone. 

Day 3 live fresh hatched baby brine started with mostly vinegar eels or similar sized foods. In this that squiggly line is a vinegar eel

After that is an amazing ride of fast growth. 

I believe my feeding has averaged to or is projected* to be:

vinegar eels day 2-16

baby brine day 3-24 

Whiteworms day 21-65*

Cherry shrimp day 45-?

Earthworms day 60*-?

There is a good variation in growth rates, at least for the Pao cf. palustris, which require overlapping foods of various sizes to get everyone eating.  I also keep feeding the smaller foods if i notice any not eating the new bigger food 

[Vinm]

Day 12. THE 2 that hatched and were on the outside of eggs in breeding box 1 have a fungus on them even though I was running methanol blue. Not sure why. There is 3 eggs still not hatched in that breeding box. The eggs I pulled from the main tank that the father raised look completely different. The fry have similar colors to the adults unlike the eggs that were in breeding box 1.the egss and fry were clear. Not sure if they hatched too early or what. None of the eggs that were pulled from the fathers tank have hatched but they are quite active inside the eggs. Attached is a photo. You can compare these to the photos previously posted and see the difference in color. 

[Vinm]

Lights turned on today and they were back at it. 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Thats a good deal there. I haven't yet got that change of color. Great stuff. Do you plan on changing anything with when you pull the eggs from the main tank on the next batch?