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A bottom of the tank Matten filter?


gardenman

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Another Saturday, another update. It's now been six-plus weeks on the ten-gallon tank and the old sponge filter is coming out tomorrow. The bottom sponge should be fully seasoned by now. The twenty-high is about four weeks old and is perfect. Everything is still going great. Water quality is perfect. No serious issues at all. I've got a new corner box filter coming tomorrow that I'm planning to add some crushed coral to and that will replace the old, seasoned sponge filter which will be moved to my fifty for the time being. I used to mix crushed coral in with my gravel when I used gravel and without the crushed coral the Kh has dropped, so the box filter will give me something to do with the airline I'm no longer using for the old sponge filter and bump up the Kh again. 

The baby plecos in the ten-gallon are doing well. The green water issue persists but will eventually resolve on its own. The Water Sprite is threatening to take over the ten-gallon tank. All the plants are doing well. No significant issues of any kind other than the algae bloom in the ten. The fish are doing well. The plants are doing well. The water tests perfectly. (Other than the Kh dropping which is due to no more crushed coral mixed in the gravel.) When I remove the old sponge filters, we'll see what happens, but I'm not expecting any impact. The two inches of foam on the full bottom with the UG plate under it gives me five to ten times the foam of the sponge filter with more water flow through it.

Six weeks in and still no real drawbacks. It's a cheap, maybe better way to do a Matten filter in a tank. You get more foam, more flow through the foam, a nice black fine sand appearing bottom, and for about what you'd spend on a traditional Matten filter. The foam and UG filter combined cost about $25 (Amazon Prime shipping included.) A conventional 10-gallon Matten filter from Swiss Tropicals costs $22 plus shipping. So, yeah, the costs are the same or close, but you don't lose internal tank space and no longer need a substrate.

Overall, it's been a success. I'd like to convert my thirty-high to this method also, but that's got my jungle val jungle and my red dwarf aquarium lily in it and I'm not sure how they'd like the foam. If I could find a big enough sheet of the foam (18"X36") I'd convert my fifty also. Finding the foam that size is a bit more challenging though. The fish are happy. The plants are happy. Everything's going well. It's working as hoped for. I couldn't really see a reason why it wouldn't work and so far it is.

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On 1/15/2022 at 9:54 AM, HH Morant said:

Thanks, @gardenman, got pictures?

Why certainly! (I just hadn't thinned out the floaters yet, so the tanks are a bit darker today.) Here's the twenty high and the ten. You can see the algae bloom is continuing in the ten, but that should eventually resolve on its own.

  

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On 1/15/2022 at 7:49 AM, gardenman said:

Overall, it's been a success. I'd like to convert my thirty-high to this method also, but that's got my jungle val jungle and my red dwarf aquarium lily in it and I'm not sure how they'd like the foam. If I could find a big enough sheet of the foam

Moving plants around in dirt substrate tanks is incredibly messy... so my BIL was telling me how he and Diana were experimenting with containers that could be more easily moved around (he was inspired by my turtle protection planters). You could try something similar for plants that really need a substrate to root in. Just place the planters on top of the sponge/matten.

Just a thought, to enable your other tanks to be converted.

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On 1/15/2022 at 10:17 PM, Torrey said:

Moving plants around in dirt substrate tanks is incredibly messy... so my BIL was telling me how he and Diana were experimenting with containers that could be more easily moved around (he was inspired by my turtle protection planters). You could try something similar for plants that really need a substrate to root in. Just place the planters on top of the sponge/matten.

Just a thought, to enable your other tanks to be converted.

The problem with containers on top of the foam would be them blocking water flow through the foam.  And the jungle val covers about a third of the thirty-high so it would need to be a big container. Jungle val (In my experience anyway) doesn't like to be disturbed, so I could end up losing it all if I got overly aggressive with it. There's no real harm in continuing to use soil in some of my tanks. The foam does make some things easier though.

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Im a new member here and got onto this thread while doing a search for photo's of bottom of tank mattenfilters... I actually made one of these about 10-15 years ago for an Axolotyl tank.. Im actually a long time fan (over 30 years) of Undergravel filters and still use them in any of my tanks with gravel in them to this day.. I also swear by Mattenfilters as a concept when using glass bottomed tanks and had heard of them using bottomof the tank mattenfilters in some instances in germany.. They actully have been using them there for Axolotyls for a few years so Im maybe not the first to try it but I have never really seen much other than 1 paper on them using them for Axolotyl in Germany. That said, this is one of the first places Ive seen a discussion on using mattenfilters as a bottom filters for fish so great to see im not alone in my thinking. 

 

 

Edited by geck
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@geck

I'd never heard of it being done anywhere, but it made sense (and is working great) so I gave it a try. I'm very happy with the results so far. I've used undergravel filters a lot in the past. I'm not sure if the Matten filter foam works better than a comparable depth of a fine gravel would work in an undergravel filter, but as a replacement for a conventional Matten filter, this works quite well. You get a larger volume of foam and more consistent water flow through the foam. And it ends up looking like a fine black sand substrate without the issues fine black sand brings. 

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@gardenman I’ve been following along and I’m considering doing this in a couple tanks.  I think it’s a great idea and it’s terrific to find out others have also used the idea successfully, too.  I think the foam is likely a better filter than gravel and here’s why.  Aquarium gravel is good, finer gravel is better, but foam beats gravel, especially 30 ppi foam.  The fact that this looks like fine black sand substrate is a massive bonus as far as I’m concerned.

 

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@gardenman

Yep been done before years ago.. you actually dont need to use the UG filter under the foam.. the version Ive seen a video of they cut channels into the bottom of the foam to house air line under the foam .. There are a few good vedeos of one tank they use it on with Axolotls .. here is one for you. 

 

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@Odd Duck

The foam I'm using is 40 PPI so it should be even a bit more efficient. When you get into finer sands the math gets a bit iffier. But finer sand with a UG filter is more complicated also. I like the portability aspect of it also. Moving a planted tank with any "normal" substrate is challenging as the substrate will want to shift as you're moving the tank. With the foam I should be able to just drain the tank, leave the foam in place and as long as I don't absolutely flip the tank upside down and shake it, everything should move fine. I thought it would look like foam, but it doesn't. It really looks like a fine sand.

@geck

Interesting. Their way is way more complicated than just using an UG filter. It's much easier to just plop down a UG filter grid, cut holes for the airlift tubes in the foam and then plop the foam down.

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On 1/18/2022 at 9:31 AM, gardenman said:

@Odd Duck

The foam I'm using is 40 PPI so it should be even a bit more efficient. When you get into finer sands the math gets a bit iffier. But finer sand with a UG filter is more complicated also. I like the portability aspect of it also. Moving a planted tank with any "normal" substrate is challenging as the substrate will want to shift as you're moving the tank. With the foam I should be able to just drain the tank, leave the foam in place and as long as I don't absolutely flip the tank upside down and shake it, everything should move fine. I thought it would look like foam, but it doesn't. It really looks like a fine sand.

If I didn’t already have fish in QT in my 2 bare bottom tanks already, I would have already done this.  As it is, it will be at least a month or more before I’m ready to convert both of those tanks.  But I will be converting, for sure.  I’ve got assorted plants in those tanks, so I’ll just be tucking them in or setting their wood/rock “substrate” pieces on top of the foam.

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On 1/18/2022 at 10:36 AM, Odd Duck said:

If I didn’t already have fish in QT in my 2 bare bottom tanks already, I would have already done this.  As it is, it will be at least a month or more before I’m ready to convert both of those tanks.  But I will be converting, for sure.  I’ve got assorted plants in those tanks, so I’ll just be tucking them in or setting their wood/rock “substrate” pieces on top of the foam.

I started out sewing the plants (anubias, java fern) into place then got bored with that and tried just using slits in the foam and that worked well. The foam really holds the plants in place. You just make a slit in the foam about halfway through the foam, then spread the edges and slide the plant roots in and then let the edges close. It's very easy and nothing's been uprooted yet. 

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@Gardenman 

Yes thats probably true ... I have a small glass bottom tank Im keeping plants in pots in that needs re doing so Im thinking I might swap it into a flex that I removed the rear sump filter from and go with a foam base filter and see how that goes sitting the plants on that.. Problem where I am is Poret Foam is hard to get. I can get aquarium foam in sheets so ill try that out. 

 

 

 

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On 1/18/2022 at 9:40 AM, gardenman said:

I started out sewing the plants (anubias, java fern) into place then got bored with that and tried just using slits in the foam and that worked well. The foam really holds the plants in place. You just make a slit in the foam about halfway through the foam, then spread the edges and slide the plant roots in and then let the edges close. It's very easy and nothing's been uprooted yet. 

The insertion into slots cut in the foam is exactly what I plan to do with some.  I’ve already got some attached to wood or rocks, so they’ll just get plopped into place.  This almost seems to good to be true, so I’ve been following closely.  I will be implementing as soon as I have a tank available.

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I pulled the old sponge filter in the ten-gallon tank yesterday so just the Matten filter is handling that tank now. An ammonia test just completed (the wet strip is sitting inches way as I type this) shows zero ammonia after 24-ish hours. So, the filter is doing its job. If it wasn't working there would definitely be detectable ammonia. There isn't so it works.

I couldn't figure out a reason it wouldn't work. I gave that tank six weeks with the old sponge filter still in place and the twenty high is now at four weeks, so in two more weeks I'll pull the sponge filter there. It just works. The plants are doing well. The fish are doing well. The water chemistry is fine. I replaced the old sponge filter with a corner box filter with some crushed coral in it to boost the KH back up. Everything's good. 

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And it's Saturday again! Everything is still going very well. The ten-gallon tank has now been without its old sponge filter for a week and no change. Zero ammonia and good readings all the way around. The green water seems to be clearing a bit. The little "I don't know what the heck this plant is" that was floating in my fifty-gallon tank and got plopped down in the front middle of the tank has been largely consumed, I don't know if that's because it died off (there are still a few small green shoots there) or if it's because that's where I feed the plecos and they get a bit intense eating their green beans, shrimp pellets, and whatnots. It could have been ingested accidentally. The baby plecos in the ten gallon have survived with one exception. I found a small dead one recently. That's the only death I've head in the ten-gallon tank since the switch to the bottom of the tank Matten. One of the surviving baby plecos is definitely an albino. Neat! He's pretty much past the edible size now. He's very white with red eyes.

The twenty high is doing great also. That still has the old sponge in it, but that'll come out next weekend. No green water there. I did lose one older swordtail there Tuesday or Wednesday. The other swordtails are doing well and the water tests fine. The plants in the twenty-high are doing well. The Cryptocoryne Lutea is settling in nicely and starting to grow. 

And some fresh photos taken minutes ago. First up is the ten-gallon and then the twenty-high.

 

 

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On 1/23/2022 at 6:18 PM, Torrey said:

I wish I could get green water. 

All the years I spent trying to get rid of it, and now when I need it for fry, I can't grow it to save their lives, lol

@Torrey

Green water is easy.. just get tank water and add lettuce leaves.. put that on the window sill and leave it about 3 or 4 days..

Infusoria which are the organisms in green water most fry feed on is also easy to make.. 

1st way, the quick way.. Get a jar of aquarium water and add about 1 teaspoon of yeast powder to it.. I usually mix it with warm water first to dissolve it, then add it to the jar of water... Then put it somewhere warm.. most people say green water is best in cooler conditions but that's after you have it.. to get it started try it a bit warmer.. about the same temp as your aquarium. Im in Aus so for me its gong to be between 22 and 28 deg.. This should get you infrasoria in 2 or 3 days.

2nd way, takes a bit longer. get a bucket. i use a 20 litre/5 gallon one.. needs a lid... Next get a heap of java moss and stick that in there with enough water to cover it... then leave it awhile.. after a week or 2 you will have infrasoria in the water.. That can go for ages like that just continually producing inrasoria for years

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On 1/23/2022 at 2:47 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

I have some 30 ppi foam screaming for a similar setup. I had some UGF sets from Lees in my Amazon basket. Here we go!

It's a neat little system. I think you'll like it. Mine's 40 PPI foam. It just makes so much sense that I couldn't figure out a reason it wouldn't work. And so far, so good. You do have to be a little selective in what plants you use, but other than that, it's been perfect. The Water Sprite is thriving. The Anubias are doing great. Java Fern is doing fine. I may try some jungle val in my twenty high later on, but the plants that spread by runner may have issues with the foam. The dwarf sag in my twenty-high is sending out runners above the foam, but I'm not sure the Jungle Val could do that. It just works. I couldn't see a reason it wouldn't work, but you never truly know until you try it. I think it's about eight weeks now for the ten (give or take a bit) and it's going great.

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On 1/23/2022 at 2:18 AM, Torrey said:

I wish I could get green water. 

All the years I spent trying to get rid of it, and now when I need it for fry, I can't grow it to save their lives, lol

Green water in a tank is one of those things that when you want it you can't get it, and when you don't want it, there it is. It doesn't bother me. I know it'll clear eventually on its own. It's good for the fish. If you get aggressive and try to kill it all at once, you can create an ammonia spike as the then dead algae decomposes and that can cause chaos.  I just let it run its course and sooner or later the tank will be clear and sparkling again. 

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On 1/23/2022 at 1:47 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

I have some 30 ppi foam screaming for a similar setup. I had some UGF sets from Lees in my Amazon basket. Here we go!

I too have plans.  I think I am going to do a 20 gallon quarantine tank with a bottom matten filter riff on this setup.  It's awesome, @gardenman!  Thanks for chronicling the journey!

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On 1/23/2022 at 2:24 AM, geck said:

put that on the window sill and leave it about 3 or 4 days..

This is the problem. We now live in apartments and get zero sun on a single windowsill. I tried using my sunlamp for S.A.D. to see if the lamp could lift spirits while growing green water... and nope.

Until I find an artificial light [that works] I can afford, I think I am out of luck...

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On 1/24/2022 at 4:55 PM, Torrey said:

This is the problem. We now live in apartments and get zero sun on a single windowsill. I tried using my sunlamp for S.A.D. to see if the lamp could lift spirits while growing green water... and nope.

Until I find an artificial light [that works] I can afford, I think I am out of luck...

@Torrey

No need for light with both methods i suggested and the 2nd one you don't ever put it in light but get food that can feed the smallest of fry. They wont get you green water to start with but WILL get you infrasoria which are microscopic organisms that fry will feed on.. once you have that, if you put it in sunlight and you'll get green water.. I use infrasoria to feed Betta's I bred before and my Rice Fish fry now. To get green water you dont need strong light, just light. You can also use a little 5w LED light bulb. Just make sure its cool white, not warm white. If you get a jar of aquarium water, add a crunched up lettuce leaf then put near light, even just the light from next to a lighted aquarium.. after a few days when it goes cloudy, add small amounts of very finely ground up fish food.. just a little bit.. that too will get you green water..

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