More serpae problems—

[isaly]

And I thought I might be okay after last week—

I’m noticing that my biggest, most finned up serpae tetra is showing a little lightening of the tissue around its mouth and looking a little slack-jawed for lack of a better descriptor.

Two died from columaris last week. Now there’s one more that looks like it’s following along—at this writing four out of twelve total I bought from lfs A remain (including the newly sick one).

I’m starting from the idea that bad fish-keepers blame the fish store like bad craftspeople blaming their tools.

I’m a newbie. I’m resigned to the fact that I’ll kill fish. This is the third serpae tetra that’s got columaris and will be the ninth out of twelve to have died since I first put four of them in on 9/8/21. The first died that night and two more the next day. Had no idea why. I got three replcements and two more for a total of six. A couple died for what I saw as no apparent cause. I got a few more. I can’t claim that I should’ve anything because I’m a newbie. I accept that maybe I should have done something, I know not what.

 

Maybe it was just water parameters not matching. My pH was 7.1 by the API test. 0 ammonia,  nitrite,  nitrate, hardness 4/7 I used a little pH-Down to bring it to around 7. I didn’t think to ask what theirs were.

My tank had been up for just a few days—was 'sterile' when I put ‘em in…just trying to cycle up with a few fish in and going slowly.

I wondered what I might have done, or not.

 

Maybe the shipper dropped ‘em or they got otherwise mishandled. Maybe it’s just one of those things that inevitably happens.

I wondered about the store getting a weak shipment of fish for whatever reason. They were very willing to replace the ones that died at first and are nice people.

I told myself that a bad fish keeper blames the fish store and, so, tried a few more to the tune of a total of twelve tetras…max serpae tetra population at any point was eight.

 

Besides…

There are four fruit/white tetras that are healthy and all in for fun. They’re living life…surfing on the current in the tank, tilting themselves slightly upward and obviously gliding as they ride the current around to the corner where the intake sits at the bottom and allow themselves to be carried around the corner to coast by the front of the glass. I love these guys.

I have no quarantine/hospital tank. I could set up a five gallon naked hospital tank,100w heater, pump, and sponge filter I can’t justify right now treating them all with dosed food and water column.

I guess I’d need to remove the plants, putting them in another container with a heater and dose the main tank water.

Is this bacterium still in the tank? Will it remain there? Are any fish I introduce doomed, but the fruities……are okay… Is this something that’ll remain, hitting the weakest as I present ‘em?

I don’t want to add a school of black neons to any tank of doom.

Temp 76, pH 7.1, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, hardness 4/7, nitrate 10+/- by the way.

[Colu]

If you have an active infection of Columnaris I wouldn't add any new fish your just exposing them to the bacterial infection you have two options put them in the 5 gallon and treat if you can't use kanaplex and nitrofurazone flakes use one of the antibiotics in food and aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 1 gallon in the 5 gallon just remember to only put the amount of salt in that you take out so if you do a 1 gallon water change put one table spoon of salt back in or you can try treating them with one of the antibiotics in food but it's not as effective

[isaly]

On 11/21/2021 at 6:16 PM, Colu said:

"If you have an active infection of Columnaris..."

I'm sorry the post was so long winded

According to wiki the bacteria stay 30+ days if hardness is 50ppm. I have no quarantine tank set up right now. They aren't showing anything I'd call symptoms until their lips turn greyish.

Edited November 22, 2021 by isaly

[Colu]

Depending on the stain of Columnaris can survive  for 4weeks or more in a empty tank if you do put your fish in a 5 gallon Qarantine I would recommend disinfecting the other tank with a 3% hydrogen peroxide solution

Edited November 22, 2021 by Colu

[isaly]

On 11/21/2021 at 7:53 PM, Colu said:

Depending on the stain of Columnaris can survive  for 4weeks or more in a empty tank if you do put your fish in a 5 gallon Qarantine I would recommend disinfecting the other tank with a 3% hydrogen peroxide solution

 

From what I'm reading columnaris is ubiquitous, especially in un-chlorinated water. Disinfecting the tank with H2O2 or adding antibiotic to the water will kill my nitrifying bacteria and I'll have to re-cycle the tank with no indication that it won't just come back anyway...seems like a damned if I do and damned if I don't kinda situation.

Maybe the best thing to do is begin setting up a QT...of course Murphy might offer that that's when the problem will go away on its own.

[Colu]

 Columnaris bacterial can be in your water in small amounts it's only when stress or disease weaken their immune system is when they be come susceptible to the disease  in my experience using kanaplex and furan2 it hasn't harm my benefial bacterial in my tanks 

[Brandon p]

Quarantine tanks go to the nearest dollar store.I have one of the size on the righfor Quarantine. That is a BN pleco breeder and the left is a fancy guppy breeder with a pair. Bottom pic has this two and to that will hold 40 gallons but will break if you fill so 25-30 gallons is good. They can be cheap that tanks and  temporary. You can put the fish in one, substrate in another 

[isaly]

On 11/21/2021 at 9:31 PM, Brandon p said:

"Quarantine tanks go to the nearest dollar store.I have one of the size on the righfor Quarantine. That is a BN pleco breeder and the left is a fancy guppy breeder with a pair. Bottom pic has this two and to that will hold 40 gallons but will break if you fill so 25-30 gallons is good. They can be cheap that tanks and  temporary. You can put the fish in one, substrate in another"

I have about one and a half five gallon buckets worth of gravel in this 55 — a friend gifted me with some large Maine coastal granite rocks worn by the lovin' caresses of mother ocean. The gravel must hold them in place adequately. There is probably 47 gallons of water in here. It'll be hard to just move the substrate and decorations

Maybe the best thing to do is begin setting up a QT...moving forward.

On 11/21/2021 at 8:47 PM, Colu said:

 Columnaris bacterial can be in your water in small amounts it's only when stress or disease weaken their immune system is when they be come susceptible to the disease  in my experience using kanaplex and furan2 it hasn't harm my benefial bacterial in my tanks 

Are you using the combination in food only or dosing the water as well?

[Colu]

If am using furan2 and kanaplex I dose the water as kanaplex is adsorbed thought the skin and gills   when using the aquatics foods premium flake containing nitrofurazone I dose the water with kanaplex as Columnaris can internal and external bacterial infections so that covers both ol

[isaly]

On 11/22/2021 at 12:52 PM, Colu said:

If am using furan2 and kanaplex I dose the water as kanaplex is adsorbed thought the skin and gills   when using the aquatics foods premium flake containing nitrofurazone I dose the water with kanaplex as Columnaris can internal and external bacterial infections so that covers both ol

Colu, thanks again for the dialog.

I’m using two air stones so there should be plenty of O2.

I tested water just now. temp 76f., pH 7.1 - 7.2, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate somewhere between 5 and 10 on the api color chart.

Did I hear someone say that really low nitrate levels encourage growth of F. columnare?

I’d really like not to have to tear down my tank.

I’ll gather the kit for some kind of quarantine setup…tote, heater, airstone and water changes as necessary to treatment, try to save a few of ‘em if I can. I’d need to keep ‘em out of the main tank, though, until the cooties are no longer in the water column…is that possible for me?

Edited November 22, 2021 by isaly

[Colu]

You could do that and leave the tank without fish about 2 months you could also add a UV steriliser to your main tank while treating your fish in Qarantine as it breaks the DNA chain proventing the bacterial from reproducing I have never heard of low nitrates encouraging the growth Columnaris bacteria  I would start treatment straight away that will give your fish the best chance  you could put some of you seeded filter media in your Qarantine tank to help with benefial bacterial 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Colu

[Brandon p]

Beautiful looking tank. My local rocks are fossilized coral. The UV sterilizer is waiting on it for a month

[isaly]

On 11/22/2021 at 6:24 PM, Brandon p said:

Beautiful looking tank. My local rocks are fossilized coral. The UV sterilizer is waiting on it for a month

Thanks. When David offered these stones I pounced on 'em. He got 'em from a friend who's from Maine. The pink ones are potassium feldspar.

I put a jungle val (actually two plants), some cabomba, and another amazon sword in since the above pic.

Edited November 23, 2021 by isaly