Heating my "cold water" fish shed. Night temps 0F in the winter.

[MoshJosh]

So I am trying to convert half of my shed (the other half must remain for "shed stuff" like tools etc.) into a "cold water" fish room. Plan on keeping and breeding rice fish and white clouds. Now I keep rice fish year round in totes with stock tank heaters, and know they can survive even under ice, however, I want to use glass tanks in the shed and imagine I should avoid letting them freeze. Note that the shed does get hot in the summer, though I think I can manage with box fans and the like. . . Anyway, the shed has plywood over the studs, but as far as I can tell it is not truly insulated. . . i.e. there is nothing between the inner plywood and outer wall. . . I understand this will be a barrier to success. That said I am not trying to achieve tropical temps, would like 50F, but would settle for not freezing. i think my best bet is a oil filled space heater (would be using a reflective heat shield on the wall next to it, and there will be no kids or pets in the shed to knock it over). My wife already HATES the idea of a fish shed (she doesn't even really like the fish in the house haha) so major modifications to the shed are pretty much out.

 

Here is the space and the idea, what are your thoughts/ideas?

 

 

[Wonder Boy]

Is there anyway you can pull the plywood down and put in insulation? Feel like that would help immensely. Another option are those insulation panels. 

[lefty o]

insulate that thing. an oil filled heater will probably work, but really going to be an expensive electric bill without insulation in that shed.

[MoshJosh]

I realize insulation would probably help/be my best bed. . . however, I think that falls under the "major modifications" I mentioned. I think the space heater bill (50 bucks a month per the internet) would be easier to stomach than the teardown and rebuild + cost of the insulation. . .

[lefty o]

you could simply tack 1" pink foam board insulation right against the walls and ceiling.

[MoshJosh]

yes, I thought about that, however, at 25 dollars for a 4' X 8' section I'm looking at like $300 + in foam if not more. . . 

[lefty o]

ouch yeah prices have gone up recently. though even if you did just the ceiling would help quite a bit, as heat rises.

[Wonder Boy]

On 11/19/2021 at 11:31 PM, MoshJosh said:

I realize insulation would probably help/be my best bed. . . however, I think that falls under the "major modifications" I mentioned. I think the space heater bill (50 bucks a month per the internet) would be easier to stomach than the teardown and rebuild + cost of the insulation. . .

My concern is that you’ll never actually heat the space. 0 degrees with no insulation is gonna be a rough go to get the temp up, regardless of cost. 
 

i’d keep the tanks close together, and near the heater. Maybe a slow fan behind the heater to turn it from radiant to slow blow heat?
 

Are your flood lights LED? 

[KaitieG]

I think it's going to be really hard without insulation as well, but I'd consider at least moving the tanks away from the walls if you can't insulate (and maybe at least in the winter even if you can.  I know that takes up space and changes your planned layout, but the cold is going to pour through that plywood like nobody's business if my experience of WI winters is anything like your winter experience!  I'd also be concerned about any space heater being able to keep up even if it runs constantly if it doesn't have any help from insulation.

Fiberglass is a cheaper insulation option and you could take down the plywood put in insulation and put back on the plywood as a day-long, not super expensive project I'd think.  Easier if it's screwed on than nailed but not impossible either way.  It'd save you enough in electricity to pay for itself pretty quickly I think.  Lining your walls with straw bales might be another option...you could even do that on the outside of the shed if you have access to them.

[MoshJosh]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I guess I should have mentioned this in the OP, but we will likely be moving in 1-2 years, and (maybe I'm just lazy) I don't want to totally modify the shed  when realistically the modifications would only be beneficial for about 4 months out of those 2 years. . . might have to take this plan back to the drawing board. 

 

Maybe I can just set the fish room up but not add water until late spring, breed the fish, then shut it back down. 

[MoshJosh]

Obviously heating is still a concern, but I did get a little work done today. Still needing to clean out the other half of the shed before I can really move forward. I might do an experiment and just buy a space heater to see what my overnight temps are/the difference in temp

[lefty o]

what state are you in, so we might have an idea of the cold you will deal with?

[MoshJosh]

Western slope Colorado

[Minanora]

On 11/20/2021 at 9:06 PM, MoshJosh said:

but we will likely be moving in 1-2 years

When my husband and I bought our house we said we'd only live here for 3-4 years. It's been 7 and we know it will be at least another 2 before we move.

I recommend making improvements for the things you enjoy, you never know what may happen with your plans.

If you're just wanting to over-winter, put all the tanks close together, insulate below and around them and use in tank heaters. Covering the tanks will help retain heat as well.

For a fish room, if you're not able to insulate the walls and ceiling (the insulation will help in the summer to keep things cooler as well), insulate your shelf bottoms or tank bottoms at least, and the backs/sides of the tanks.

In any case. Separate the open space between the fish room and shed stuff/storage with painters cloth or better yet make a wall with an door opening that has either a door or painters cloth. Less space to heat/insulate/cool. Keeps some humidity in.

Definitely put some damp-rid in the shed stuff side to protect your stuff from the moisture.

 

[MoshJosh]

So change of plans, the wife and I came to an agreement I can keep all the fish I wanted in the shed, but she didn’t want a space heater. . . Something about the house not burn down I don’t really know. . . But anyway I think that means tanks are pretty much out so tubs are in! Time to breed some rice fish!

 

here’s an idea of what I’m going for, Will have more tubs to fill in the empty spaces:

 

[MoshJosh]

Picked up some more totes, here’s a better idea of what it will look like. 2 27 gallon totes and 1 40 gallon stock tank on the bottom. 3 17 gallon totes up top.

 

 

Edit: ok, so I didn’t have any foam, I did have some of that reflective bubble wrap, used for like tent pads (I know that some of the bubbles may pop). . . I doubled it up and cut it to size, then threw it under, maybe it will help? I mean technically the totes and the stock tank are only partially touching the ground anyway as the bottoms have ribs, but still I tried?

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by MoshJosh

[Scotch Zukington]

Just an FYI.. I would lay something down on the concrete, as concrete flooring will bring in lots of cold into that small space, more so than one would think..
I live in a snow zone, up in the mountains, and I used to keep Poison Dart Frog(s) out in my garage, a single car garage. I mistakenly  thought by insulating the walls w/ R-19 would suffice, well it did to a degree (no pun intended), but it didn't keep the 40g water supply from freezing up on me. I kept the container on the ground under several of my vivariums next to the house wall, and yup, the water top layer froze up.. Not sure if your concerned w/ frozen water or not.

My solution was to lay 1" x 2" boards out in a grid pattern on my floor, I then put R-19 insulation down and on top of that I put plastic wrap and then finally 1/2" plywood.. Worked out better than I though and now I'm actually saving more on heating that the cost of insulating walls/floor..

Now, Cost is a thing these days and I get that, so I would just go around to a local hardware store and ask for throw away foam board, or construction site trash is an always go to..

Good luck and keep warm !
 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I live at 3000 ft in the Cascades in Oregon. I feel your pain. I have used those Mylar space/survival blankets over my tanks/tubs in the garage and it helps. Put tops over the top of them to hold a layer of warm air over the surface which could help. I sometimes on colder nights then throw moving blankets over those. LRB has shown his outdoor ponds and what he did was build a wooden structure, then put rocks and foam around the outside as well. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Beardedbillygoat1975

[MoshJosh]

So I have kind of resigned myself to the fact that this will be mostly seasonal, but I’m still trying to get work done so I’m ready when the time comes. Today I put in the lights and mountain the little brackets I will hang the USB air pumps on:

Edited December 23, 2021 by MoshJosh