What proportion of 'less than perfect fry' is typical?

[PineSong]

I've had two batches of fry from a female guppy I got as part of a reverse trio a couple months ago.

The first set of fry was either very small in number or heavily predated and all 5 of them that survived are healthy looking.

This second batch had mom removed so they would not be eaten. There are probably around 20 fry and there are two with very curved spines--one curves up and the other one curves down. 

Not sure why this would happen, given that mom was well fed and her tank is in a sunny window for light. Also not sure if 2/20 is a 'normal' ratio or a high ratio of deformity and I should take precautions from breeding this female in future.

Your experience/thoughts?

 

 

[Guppysnail]

I had 1 mom guppy give birth to one batch with 2/24 looking V shaped tail head up extended.  I have read 2 theories but have no clue which is accurate. The first is overcrowded eggs in young moms “pinching” some. As seemed to be my case since I got her pregnant from the store and in my opinion she was way to young as she wasn’t even 1/2 grown or fully colored. These two popped out as she passed trying to birth them. The other is scoliosis but that is often s or c shaped to the sides when looking down on the fish. 

I’ve never had any others deformed in many many batches. 

[PineSong]

On 11/10/2021 at 8:59 PM, Guppysnail said:

I had 1 mom guppy give birth to one batch with 2/24 looking V shaped tail head up extended.  I have read 2 theories but have no clue which is accurate. The first is overcrowded eggs in young moms “pinching” some. As seemed to be my case since I got her pregnant from the store and in my opinion she was way to young as she wasn’t even 1/2 grown or fully colored. These two popped out as she passed trying to birth them. The other is scoliosis but that is often s or c shaped to the sides when looking down on the fish. 

I’ve never had any others deformed in many many batches. 

Interesting. I am sure my female is pregnant again/still so I will probably get more batches from her before I have to make a decision about whether to return a male to her tank or not. She is the only female of her strain that I have, so I am hoping she's not got bad DNA.

[Guppysnail]

My fingers are crossed for you. I had gotten a sister to the one who gave 2 v shaped. The sister gave 2 batches all perfectly fine so my fingers are crossed for you that it was a one time thing. 

[Schwack]

In my last few batches of CPD fry I had probably 8 out of 100ish that could be diagnosed with "failure to thrive." Either they developed very slowly, and weren't able to eat as often as the others, or they had some minor deformity. Most of them just sort of disappeared as the rest of their siblings grew, but 5 or so have made it to adulthood and I keep them in a 29 gallon I intend to use to house the little ones that aren't quite "perfect." It's really that I dont have the heart to euthanize a fish that can live a decent life just because it looks a bit funny, I'm still new enough to fish breeding that they're all my babies.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Schwack

[PineSong]

I have the same ethic— no reason to kill someone if they’re not suffering, and I’m rooting for my little C-shaped guys. I keep boys and girls in separate tanks so I’m not worried about them reproducing ( if they even could). 

[lefty o]

the bent spine in guppy's seems to come from lacking calcium and other mineral sin the water. i used to get a few of them with every drop, but since ive added a small amount of crushed coral to my tanks i dont get them any more.

[Guppysnail]

On 11/10/2021 at 11:47 PM, Schwack said:

I keep them in a 29 gallon I intend to use to house the little ones that aren't quite "perfect."

 

On 11/11/2021 at 12:04 AM, PineSong said:

. I keep boys and girls in separate tanks so I’m not worried about them reproducing ( if they even could). 

 Out of reaction so 😍😍I’m the same. Boys and girls separate. I kept the two girls I described earlier. Two stunted growth boys caught in a planter at birth so underfed and one boy who was either born without a top lip or was injured but otherwise is a very robust guppy.  They thrive and are adorable active and always first to my hand/pipette to eat. Very sweet fishes. I keep all less than perfect fish with me so I know they are loved.  

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

 One of my recently acquired male endlers seems "less than perfect " and slightly bent but I think he's gorgeous. 

[gardenman]

The percentage of less than perfect fry seems to vary with how heavily modified the captive bred fish is from the original wild strain. Modern guppies are vastly different from the wild strains. All kinds of genetic weaknesses have been bred into them over time. Fish that are closer to wild tend to have fewer genetic issues. Look at a "wild" goldfish and compare it to a "fancy" goldfish. They bear nearly no resemblance to one another. The number of defects you find in fancy goldfish fry can be as high as 50% or more. You seldom see an issue in the closer to wild goldfish.

[PineSong]

On 11/11/2021 at 12:14 AM, lefty o said:

the bent spine in guppy's seems to come from lacking calcium and other mineral sin the water. i used to get a few of them with every drop, but since ive added a small amount of crushed coral to my tanks i dont get them any more.

My water is super hard but you raise a good point--the tank does not have crushed coral in it and some of my other tanks do. Will put some in there.

[PineSong]

On 11/11/2021 at 9:33 AM, gardenman said:

The percentage of less than perfect fry seems to vary with how heavily modified the captive bred fish is from the original wild strain. Modern guppies are vastly different from the wild strains. All kinds of genetic weaknesses have been bred into them over time. Fish that are closer to wild tend to have fewer genetic issues. Look at a "wild" goldfish and compare it to a "fancy" goldfish. They bear nearly no resemblance to one another. The number of defects you find in fancy goldfish fry can be as high as 50% or more. You seldom see an issue in the closer to wild goldfish.

Ah, this is also a good point. These guppies are not super modified, e.g. they are not albino, dumbo ears, or long delta tails, but they aren't wild-type or Endlers, either. I'm out of love with the moscow tail types because I cannot keep them in one peice even in a spacious planted tank of all peaceful fish. They just tear each other up and I hate looking in my tank and seeing tails that look like the weedeater got them.