Grumpy Rant + What large fish would you like miniaturized?

[PineSong]

I'm disappointed that science has dedicated itself to things like space travel and electric cars when much more basic problems of the human condition have yet to be solved.

Namely, why isn't someone breeding miniature versions of fish that lots of people want but who get too large for the average fishkeeper? Every single time I see one of those orange and white oscars, I am at risk of becoming "that" person who pops a baby oscar into a 20g with a flimsy plan to figure out a long-term solution later.

If people could start with wolves and end up with chihuahuas, I would expect that some dedicated effort could yield mini oscars the size of black skirt tetras. Instead, people have come up with stupid stuff like light-up coasters for your car: 

I mean, no offense if you have light-up car coasters, but you have to admit it'd be way cooler to have miniature oscars.

I know not everyone would choose oscars to shrink down to pint sized--what fish would you pick, and why?

[Dwayne Brown]

I would like to have a larger variety of small peaceful south american cichlids. If someone could breed Bolivian rams, apistos, or other cichlids to be smaller I would be able to keep a lot more different kinds. I also think a miniature swordtail would be cool. I have wanted to try to keep them but they are a little to big for my setups. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Dwayne Brownmini swords are out there if you go looking. 

[Flumpweesel]

Goldfish  - love those things for their personality but they do grow.  I also love the tiny baby bichirs they'd be cool. 

I read a sci-fi (i think Arthur C Clark)  book once where they had mastered the miniaturising of animals but where shocked by it changing the behaviour of animals  they gave the example of an elephant the size of a cat being more like a rodent than the majestic large versions.  Its all about perception . 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 11/3/2021 at 11:32 PM, PineSong said:

I know not everyone would choose oscars to shrink down to pint sized--what fish would you pick, and why?

In all seriousness, I have fewer things I want miniaturized than marine creatures I'd like to have FW species of (can you imagine a FW coral, or anemone, or starfish?!), or soft water groups I'd like that more hard water species of. 

[gardenman]

I always thought it would be interesting to try and create both a giant and dwarf strain of most livebearers. I have way too many neon swordtails and I find that they come in a variety of sizes. Some get quite large, some stay smaller. Selectively breeding the largest to the largest and the smallest to the smallest might ultimately give you two stable lines of neon swordtails. A giant one and a dwarf one. Dwarfing livebearers can get complicated due to the live birth aspect. If the mother fish is too small, giving birth can be complicated. It would probably be easier to make a giant strain but how many people want a ten-to-twelve-inch-long swordtail?

On a recent video Cory was at a Florida fish farm where the owner talked of the giant sailfin mollies they'd had in the past. I'd seen them around 40 years ago or so in a local pet shop where the owner had bought a pair of retired breeders and the mollies were eight or more inches long. Just gorgeous fish. The genetic potential is there to make both giant and dwarf strains of most livebearers if you've got the patience and tank space to pursue it. It might take you ten years or more, but it could be done. 

[gardenman]

On 11/4/2021 at 9:00 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

In all seriousness, I have fewer things I want miniaturized than marine creatures I'd like to have FW species of (can you imagine a FW coral, or anemone, or starfish?!), or soft water groups I'd like that more hard water species of. 

Seahorses strike me as being a fish that could be converted to freshwater given enough time. They're often in shallow water coastal areas and even in brackish water fairly regularly. They breed fairly easily also. I suspect that given ten years or so of slowly lowering the salinity and breeding those that best survived in the less salty water, you could eventually create a freshwater seahorse. Would there be a market for them? Maybe. Starfish would have potential too since they're often in tidal pools that can have wildly varying salinity depending on rain or evaporation. I don't remember ever hearing of anyone breeding starfish though. 

[lefty o]

if we could get mini's, id love to have sturgeon, and gar that got to a max of about 10".

[Atitagain]

On 11/4/2021 at 12:32 AM, PineSong said:

I know not everyone would choose oscars to shrink down to pint sized--what fish would you pick, and why

I would pick oscars as well. As far as personality goes to me nothing else is even close. To be able to have 3-4 in a 20G or what if ….wait for it ….50 in a 75G or something crazy like that! 😃😃😃

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 11/4/2021 at 8:08 AM, gardenman said:

Seahorses strike me as being a fish that could be converted to freshwater given enough time.

There are freshwater pipefish, which are related.  But they are not the same.  Not quite the proper shape.

So who is starting the FW seahorse breeding program?

[Patrick_G]

On 11/3/2021 at 10:48 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

@Dwayne Brownmini swords are out there if you go looking. 

Haha, they’re my summer tub plan! 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I just saw some advertised on Aquabid. I’d do that if I knew where I was going to be next summer.

[Patrick_G]

Or how about some mini Discus? They could live in a 29 with some Mini GBRs. 

On 11/4/2021 at 10:14 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

I just saw some advertised on Aquabid. I’d do that if I knew where I was going to be next summer.

Was it the “Dalmatian” colored ones? 

[Brandy]

I would choose oscars also--Lemon tiger oscars that get the size of electric blue acaras. Or maybe just slightly larger. Or a gold sevrum that would NOT shred my plants? 

[Dwayne Brown]

@Patrick_G Let me know if you find any. I would really be interested in starting a colony of them. 

[Patrick_G]

On 11/4/2021 at 10:37 AM, Dwayne Brown said:

@Patrick_G Let me know if you find any. I would really be interested in starting a colony of them. 

The mini Swords? A seller on aquabid is selling them. 

[Ken]

I second the fancy goldfish. I had fancy goldfish years ago but don't have room for a big enough tank now. A Redcap Oranda and Calico Ranchu that only got to around 2-1/2" would be just the ticket.

[PineSong]

On 11/4/2021 at 1:44 PM, Patrick_G said:

The mini Swords? A seller on aquabid is selling them. 

I'll have to wait and see yours before I believe this isn't one of those "teacup pig" situations where breeders swear the creature will stay tiny but then you have this gal:

[PineSong]

On 11/4/2021 at 10:43 AM, lefty o said:

if we could get mini's, id love to have sturgeon, and gar that got to a max of about 10".

I guess you can't use soft focus and pretend that a wrestling halfbeak is a gar? They're so cute!

[Expectorating_Aubergine]

On 11/4/2021 at 4:48 AM, Flumpweesel said:

Goldfish  - love those things for their personality but they do grow.  I also love the tiny baby bichirs they'd be cool. 

I read a sci-fi (i think Arthur C Clark)  book once where they had mastered the miniaturising of animals but where shocked by it changing the behaviour of animals  they gave the example of an elephant the size of a cat being more like a rodent than the majestic large versions.  Its all about perception . 

The miniature elephant story was in the Jurassic Park book. It's what Hammond used for his presentations to investors about biological attractions.

My vote is for miniature arapimas and lungfish (all of them, especially the australian). On the opposite end, I'd love to see a 3ft khuli loach as thick as a man's arm.....

[Mongo_like_fish]

Sign me up for a mini arowana😃

 

[Patrick_G]

On 11/4/2021 at 4:48 PM, PineSong said:

I'll have to wait and see yours before I believe this isn't one of those "teacup pig" situations where breeders swear the creature will stay tiny but then you have this gal:

Ok, good, now I have an excuse to order some! 

[CalmedByFish]

On 11/4/2021 at 8:01 AM, gardenman said:

the owner talked of the giant sailfin mollies they'd had in the past. I'd seen them around 40 years ago or so in a local pet shop where the owner had bought a pair of retired breeders and the mollies were eight or more inches long. Just gorgeous fish.

That is super cool. It's probably a very small percentage of the forum that got to see them in person!

I'd actually like an extra-big vibrant blue betta. Almost the size of an angelfish. 🙂 

[Axona]

I would love a miniature oscar. Somehow you have also made me want a light up coaster.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Axona

[Brandy]

On 11/4/2021 at 5:43 PM, Mongo_like_fish said:

Sign me up for a mini arowana😃

 

Oh funny, I was literally JUST looking for something like that last week. The closest I could find was a golden wonder killi. The head is almost right, but the tail not so much.