Semi-Aquatic tarantula enclosure

[mynameisnobody]

Hello all, Recently I began planning for some aquariums. They wouldn’t come to fruition until at least February, however I am a planner. I’m a bit on the neurotic side. The species at hand is Hysterocrates Gigas. This species is known as the semi-aquatic tarantula. The plan thus far is to set up a 55 gallon paludarium style aquarium. I am thinking something similar to what @Zenzo has his mudskippers in. Obviously the land area will be very different with cork bark, live plants, and a good substrate mix. I am thinking a sponge filter could work, however I think a internal canister (this would be my first) would be more effective. I also don’t want to risk the tarantulas claw getting stuck in the sponge. (I’m assuming the chances of this are low, but I’m a bit on the paranoid side also). When housing spiders, it is best practice to remove any screen covering the tops of the enclosure because they will get a foot stuck. These spiders are known to dive down, grab a fishy snack and even hang out at the bottom for some time, before retreating back to land. I am thinking of going with guppies, however I am open to anything. The logic is that it will take at least a year to raise H gigas to an appropriate size to rehouse to the aquarium and in that time, the guppies can have a field day breeding, as well as the plants to take a firm grip. Any thoughts on the filtration and fish selection? Any and all feedback is appreciated. Thank you 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Manny

[Streetwise]

This sounds really interesting, and is something that I have never heard of before!

[mynameisnobody]

@Streetwise Thank you dude. I find it quite fascinating. I’ve also posted the same idea on a tarantula forum and was given many ideas, as well as precautions. It’ll be interesting to see how it turns out if it does come to fruition. There are a few things I didn’t consider, however I believe it is nothing a 3-D printer can’t fix, so we’ll see. Worst case scenario, I’ve learned something new, so it’s a win win. As long as the spider and fish are cared for properly, then it’s a win for them as well. Thanks again

[Streetwise]

@Manny, turtle keepers might have some interesting ideas for balancing a dry area in a wet tank.

[Zenzo]

On 10/10/2021 at 7:48 PM, Manny said:

Hello all, Recently I began planning for some aquariums. They wouldn’t come to fruition until at least February, however I am a planner. I’m a bit on the neurotic side. The species at hand is Hysterocrates Gigas. This species is known as the semi-aquatic tarantula. The plan thus far is to set up a 55 gallon paludarium style aquarium. I am thinking something similar to what @Zenzo has his mudskippers in. Obviously the land area will be very different with cork bark, live plants, and a good substrate mix. I am thinking a sponge filter could work, however I think a internal canister (this would be my first) would be more effective. I also don’t want to risk the tarantulas claw getting stuck in the sponge. (I’m assuming the chances of this are low, but I’m a bit on the paranoid side also). When housing spiders, it is best practice to remove any screen covering the tops of the enclosure because they will get a foot stuck. These spiders are known to dive down, grab a fishy snack and even hang out at the bottom for some time, before retreating back to land. I am thinking of going with guppies, however I am open to anything. The logic is that it will take at least a year to raise H gigas to an appropriate size to rehouse to the aquarium and in that time, the guppies can have a field day breeding, as well as the plants to take a firm grip. Any thoughts on the filtration and fish selection? Any and all feedback is appreciated. Thank you 

Sounds really cool. Maybe Serpa Design's videos can give you some inspiration as well. 

[mynameisnobody]

@Zenzo excellent thinking sir, will do

[Ogpulchra]

Can't wait to see how your project turns out! You can probably tell by my username, but I also keep tarantulas and true spiders. 

[mynameisnobody]

@Ogpulchra hahaha love the name. Funny part is I have been searching for  a grammostola pulchra sling. Not the easiest spider to find at that size. I will keep you posted, even though this is going to be a loooong process. 

[CalmedByFish]

New and curious idea to me. I only have one thought. Do you know if guppies are small enough for "fishy snacks?" 

[mynameisnobody]

@CalmedByFish Excellent question! Guppies are actually too small. Normally I would feed a full grown Gigas 2-3 large adult roaches or crickets. They are much larger than guppies. However, I’m drawing a blank on which species of fish is approx double the size of a guppy, yet reproduces just as easily? I’m thinking guppies because the spider could eat as many as it would like and guppies aren’t very fast. 

[CalmedByFish]

On 10/11/2021 at 9:27 PM, Manny said:

@CalmedByFish Excellent question! Guppies are actually too small. Normally I would feed a full grown Gigas 2-3 large adult roaches or crickets. They are much larger than guppies. However, I’m drawing a blank on which species of fish is approx double the size of a guppy, yet reproduces just as easily? I’m thinking guppies because the spider could eat as many as it would like and guppies aren’t very fast. 

Oh! Well, I feel like I'm being a jerk to the fish here, but...

Platies? They're longer and chubbier than guppies. They're livebearers, so the adult females have babies every month. Adult males are about roach sized, and juveniles would be cricket sized. I think platies would be worth getting some more info on.

I'm guessing other livebearers that are bigger than guppies would be too big (mollies and swordtails come to mind). 

Also, EWW!!!

 

[mynameisnobody]

@CalmedByFish Hahahahahaha excellent input. Funny thing is I have a 40 breeder with a ton of platies and it didn’t even dawn on me (I’m a dope from time to time). You, on the other hand, are excellent. 

[CalmedByFish]

On 10/11/2021 at 9:45 PM, Manny said:

@CalmedByFish Hahahahahaha excellent input. Funny thing is I have a 40 breeder with a ton of platies and it didn’t even dawn on me (I’m a dope from time to time). You, on the other hand, are excellent. 

That's kinda perfect. You could use the EWW as a "circle of life" way to cull the platies you think look blah. 

I don't know if this applies to your situation, but just in case, I'll mention it. I gave my angelfish about 50 endlers, assuming he'd eat the smallest few, but most would live. The actual result is that he ate about half, and by the time I realized it, all the survivors had been living in terror for over a month. I netted them all out so I could take time to think about what to do. That's when I could see that they were all too thin, having been too scared to come out and eat. I had unwittingly made them miserable. So it's worth considering the idea of only having a couple days' worth of fish in the tarantula's water at a time. That would prevent any particular fish from going through an extended time period of stress.

[mynameisnobody]

@CalmedByFish you are a wealth of suggestions. That is brilliant! I can keep the platies in the planted 40 breeder and every week or so I can net out 6-8 and place them in the spiders aquatic setup. Very cool idea. 
I love fish and in no way am I trying to terrorize anything so this makes everyone’s life better. Kudos to you! 

[Torrey]

On 10/11/2021 at 2:29 PM, Manny said:

@Streetwise Thank you dude. I find it quite fascinating. I’ve also posted the same idea on a tarantula forum and was given many ideas, as well as precautions. It’ll be interesting to see how it turns out if it does come to fruition. There are a few things I didn’t consider, however I believe it is nothing a 3-D printer can’t fix, so we’ll see. Worst case scenario, I’ve learned something new, so it’s a win win. As long as the spider and fish are cared for properly, then it’s a win for them as well. Thanks again

I suspect with a 3D printer you could more easily/safely use a sponge filter than a canister (with suction potential issues): print a "cage" big enough for the filter to sit inside with bars (instead of mesh/screen), and just lift up the cage assembly when you need to clean.

I would need to research again, but I seem to remember H.gigas having a decent sized abdomen, so the "bars" only need to be close enough together to ensure the abdomen can't get through... plus have space from the filter so she doesn't reach in and get stuck.

This will give fish a hiding spot, ensuring smarter fish are the ones breeding... which can make for interesting turns of events. 

 

I look forward to following along! I know Tanner @SerpaDesigns doesn't do many arachnids. 

The NC Museum of Natural History used to have an awesome set-up, with the front of the enclosure almost all water, a few "shelves" that essentially floated as the water level changed, lots of emmersed plants for climbing in and out, and the "land" area had quite a bit of recessed area underneath to expand the volume of water.

I know that roots had grown down through the supports of the "land", which also gave fish hiding places. 

I tried to recreate it for a ball python we had who loved the water, but balls are far more destructive 😅

[Torrey]

On 10/11/2021 at 9:08 PM, Manny said:

@CalmedByFish you are a wealth of suggestions. That is brilliant! I can keep the platies in the planted 40 breeder and every week or so I can net out 6-8 and place them in the spiders aquatic setup. Very cool idea. 
I love fish and in no way am I trying to terrorize anything so this makes everyone’s life better. Kudos to you! 

Our turtle Karma has been outsmarted by her food.

The opposite end of the equation is make sure you put in far more than the spider can eat at once, and provide plenty of natural hiding spaces. Check out @eatyourpeas natural biotope for ideas.

It's why I recommended a cage, and lots of emmersed growth: plenty of hiding, plenty of fry opportunities to succeed, and plenty of actually having to hunt so everyone is mentally stimulated. 

Currently, I just culled down to 40 endlers in Karma's pond.

She can safely eat a few, without getting divebombed right now. 

Before I diminished our endler population, Karma decided to stay out of the pond for 3 weeks, because she would get her head bombed by fish every time she went in the pond.

[eatyourpeas]

@Manny I am not versed in spider keeping at all, but I do love them.

I have a canister filter in my paludarium housing vampire crabs, and you can look into "baskets" for the intake cover instead of sponges. I like the canister filter because I do not have to disturb the tank when cleaning, and the pump is easily accesible outside the tank.

Also, I made a lid out of fluorescent light lens material that I was able to cut to size, as the crabs are escape artists as well.  It keeps the moisture in, and I have a mister, so when it is on it stays contained.

[Biotope Biologist]

I would suggest canister filters for a paludarium for a cleaner look! What a fun idea I have seen some fun diving bell spider tanks but of course they live practically full time underwater. 

 

You could always keep white cloud minnows if the focus is not on food. They are darty and fun, but would be too small for your tarantula to even bother with. Once you start a journal I will definitely give it a follow.

[mynameisnobody]

@Torrey @eatyourpeas @Biotope Biologist wow these are all excellent ideas. I believe the best way to attack this is with trial and error, as long as all of the animals involved are cared for properly. As with spiders, patience is the absolute key. I’ve been keeping fish much longer than tarantulas. I learned patience with fish because as we all know, things take time. The fish keeping hobby has so many factors involved which makes patience a necessity if you are to enjoy the hobby long term. Once I began keeping tarantulas, I was blown away by how much more patience is REQUIRED. I now have the patience of a monument. I will be implementing all of these ideas and through trial and error, it will decide which avenue is best. Your comments have made me proud to be part of this forum. I will begin a journal when I begin and it probably will be filled with “uh-oh this didn’t go as planned.” 
I’ve also been researching on a tarantula forum and apparently this has been tried, only to fail. It appears to me that the issue was the lack of aquatic experience. This won’t be a problem because I am fairly well versed and I have you folks to help me out. I appreciate you.

PS @Biotope Biologist I love your username, it’s tremendous!