Where are my hard water people at??

[Torrey]

On 10/1/2021 at 5:35 PM, Mack said:

Thank you for the wonderful insight. I haven’t tried dirted tanks yet, have you noticed any ammonia spike when first setting it up?

I don't put any fish in until the tank is seasoned.

I don't waste supplies testing the water for pretty much the first month. 

The biggest thing I learned for organic soil tanks is to plant as heavily as possible, and **poke the dirt**

I didn't poke, and ended up losing almost a dozen stem plants 😔

I am getting the plants so I can do a 4' tank in my dining room. At the current rate of propagation, I might be ready to start putting everything together in the next 6 weeks.

 

The heavier the tank is planted, the less ammonia (ammonia is actually easier for plants to utilize than nitrates) from the organic soil. 

The second thing I learned was.

.

.

.

.

.

Patience. 

Don't rush it. Allow the plants to grow at their own pace, allow the tank to find its own balance, allow nature to take its course. Some plants will thrive at the beginning, then start to melt and die back. Try to allow it.

Add snails to eat the melting leaves.

Onserve, and learn the rythm of your tank.

My 10 gallon has amphopods, snails, apparently a damselfly larvae hitched a ride and morphed into an adult today (explained how I put 14 fish in and now only have 10), my tannins make the water a gorgeous deep red.....

And the water dropped from 8.2 pH out of the tap when I filled the tank a couple months ago, to 7.8 pH and incredibly stable.

The important thing is the snails, endlers, blackworms, amphopods and plants are happy.

My last water test was 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates. Plants are doing their job.

Until I get more fish, I am finishing  up my SeaChem Flourish until I can afford more Easy Green. 

[KentFishFanUK]

My tap water is about 8.4 pH but in my tank with Tropica aqua soil powder, driftwood and plants it seems to level out about 7.4. I tend to do only small water changes as don't want to change it too much at one time. 

[StockEwe49]

What does everyone mean when talking about "Stem-plants"? Are Crypts an example? Just curious because I have hard water and plants are doing fine.

[Guppysnail]

On 10/2/2021 at 1:56 PM, StockEwe49 said:

What does everyone mean when talking about "Stem-plants"? Are Crypts an example? Just curious because I have hard water and plants are doing fine.

I don’t have crypts but I have ludwiga moneywort scarlet temple and other stem plants. They do great for me

[StockEwe49]

On 10/2/2021 at 11:58 AM, Guppysnail said:

I don’t have crypts but I have ludwiga moneywort scarlet temple and other stem plants. They do great for me

Yes, moneywort does very well in my water.

[dmurray407]

I just found how hard my water actually is. My pH is around 8-8.2 and the city website says my gH is around 340 ppm (I hope I'm saying that right). I ordered a test kit for gH so I can check it myself.  I don't really want to fool with trying to "fix" it, and have been doing lots of research on what will tolerate water that hard. I know stem plants don't usually like it, but I love the look of the Brazilian Pennywort in the store here-has anyone had any luck with that? https://www.aquariumcoop.com/products/pennywort-1

[Endler enthusiast]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:56 AM, StockEwe49 said:

What does everyone mean when talking about "Stem-plants"? Are Crypts an example? Just curious because I have hard water and plants are doing fine.

Crypts have always been a success for me

[Torrey]

On 10/2/2021 at 1:30 PM, dmurray407 said:

I just found how hard my water actually is. My pH is around 8-8.2 and the city website says my gH is around 340 ppm (I hope I'm saying that right). I ordered a test kit for gH so I can check it myself.  I don't really want to fool with trying to "fix" it, and have been doing lots of research on what will tolerate water that hard. I know stem plants don't usually like it, but I love the look of the Brazilian Pennywort in the store here-has anyone had any luck with that? https://www.aquariumcoop.com/products/pennywort-1

I have ludwiga and 3 other types of stem plants (cranial flatulence has dropped the names😅) that are finally flourishing in my liquid rock.

I just had to learn that stem plants grow roots, and roots have evolved to thrive in soil.... so if I want a healthy stem plant with gorgeous red leaves, I have to give it the combination of soil + the siesta method if I don't want to mess with a CO2 system. 

It only took me about 4 decades to figure that out 🤦‍♂️

[dmurray407]

On 10/2/2021 at 4:06 PM, Torrey said:

I just had to learn that stem plants grow roots, and roots have evolved to thrive in soil.... so if I want a healthy stem plant with gorgeous red leaves, I have to give it the combination of soil + the siesta method if I don't want to mess with a CO2

The siesta method? Please tell me more 🙂

[Torrey]

On 10/2/2021 at 3:24 PM, dmurray407 said:

The siesta method? Please tell me more 🙂

Look at @Streetwise post on Single Siesta or Two and there is a **ton** of information. 

Quick summary:

Not running CO2 = passive carbon exchange 

Lights on = photosynthesis = plants use all available CO2 in 4 to 5 hours

Lights off = fish and plants restore CO2 in 4 to 5 hours, to maximum passive saturation 

Siesta method takes advantage of these facts with lights on max of 4 to 5 hours, then lights off (siesta) for 3 to 4 hours, then lights on again. 

It reduces algae growth and stimulates plant growth. 

[dmurray407]

On 10/2/2021 at 4:43 PM, Torrey said:

Look at @Streetwise post on Single Siesta or Two and there is a **ton** of information. 

Quick summary:

Not running CO2 = passive carbon exchange 

Lights on = photosynthesis = plants use all available CO2 in 4 to 5 hours

Lights off = fish and plants restore CO2 in 4 to 5 hours, to maximum passive saturation 

Siesta method takes advantage of these facts with lights on max of 4 to 5 hours, then lights off (siesta) for 3 to 4 hours, then lights on again. 

It reduces algae growth and stimulates plant growth. 

Got it-thank you!  So much to learn 🙂

 

[Streetwise]

Cheers!

[Endler enthusiast]

On 10/2/2021 at 3:00 PM, Streetwise said:

Cheers!

It’s an honor to have you on my topic, I think im going to give the siesta method a try on my planted shrimp tank

[dmurray407]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:00 PM, Streetwise said:

Cheers!

Thanks! My reading assignment for tonight 🙂

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 10/1/2021 at 1:32 PM, Mack said:

What are some of the best

Best things:

• African cichlids are beautiful!
• Limestone rocks come in all sorts of amazing types and shapes.
• Be the most successful breeder in your local club.  Keep livebearers.
• What is this erosion of snail shells you speak of?
• There are some super quirky fish you can keep that love hard water (cave fish anyone?)
• Slight drip from your PVC overflow?  No worries, that'll seal right up on its own!
• Don't have worry about fancy, expensive substrate.  Nothing else could possibly dissolve in your water!
• Tanks cycle faster at high pH.
• Lastly, you get to tell people you keep fish in liquid rock!

[Ken Sonnier]

🙋🏻‍♂️... 8.3 right out of the tap .  We don't even try and fight it . We been raising livebearers for months . "Edited" wait you meant hardness" 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Ken Sonnier
Brain fart and Misread the post

[Jawjagrrl]

On 10/1/2021 at 2:32 PM, Mack said:

In the 5 years of casual fish keeping I have had to jump through all the hoops that my hard well water through at me, can’t keep/ breed tetras, bettas etc. and don’t even get me started with stem plants. What are some of the best and worst things that you have learned about your hard water??

I sometimes miss my really hard, high Ph water - it was perfect for African cichlids right out of the tap. Hard water buildup was a pain though - but vinegar is your friend for cleanup there. A lot of the livebearers prefer hard water, as do things like neocardina shrimp. The buffering capacity is a blessing for stability too.

I've always been a fan of keeping fish suited to the water you have - much less work and stress in the long run. But as experience is gained, it is tempting to push boundaries 😄

[Endler enthusiast]

On 10/2/2021 at 6:08 PM, Jawjagrrl said:

I sometimes miss my really hard, high Ph water - it was perfect for African cichlids right out of the tap. Hard water buildup was a pain though - but vinegar is your friend for cleanup there. A lot of the livebearers prefer hard water, as do things like neocardina shrimp. The buffering capacity is a blessing for stability too.

I've always been a fan of keeping fish suited to the water you have - much less work and stress in the long run. But as experience is gained, it is tempting to push boundaries 😄

Thank you for your comment! I’ve finally learned to not fight my water and get fish/inverts that appreciate my water. Now I mostly keep Neos, and livebearers, but when I first started with tetras, goldfish and rotated through many other soft water fish. But I’ve definitely learned to embrace my liquid rock, and all that comes with it. 😀

[Endler enthusiast]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:15 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Best things:

• African cichlids are beautiful!
• Limestone rocks come in all sorts of amazing types and shapes.
• Be the most successful breeder in your local club.  Keep livebearers.
• What is this erosion of snail shells you speak of?
• There are some super quirky fish you can keep that love hard water (cave fish anyone?)
• Slight drip from your PVC overflow?  No worries, that'll seal right up on its own!
• Don't have worry about fancy, expensive substrate.  Nothing else could possibly dissolve in your water!
• Tanks cycle faster at high pH.
• Lastly, you get to tell people you keep fish in liquid rock!

I love this list! What types of cave fish do you speak of?? I’ve always noticed that my tanks always cycled quickly but I never knew it was because of my high ph, that’s so handy! And it’s always a good conversation starter to tell people you keep fish in liquid rock. Thank you for commenting it means a lot!

On 10/2/2021 at 5:52 PM, Ken Sonnier said:

🙋🏻‍♂️... 8.3 right out of the tap .  We don't even try and fight it . We been raising livebearers for months . "Edited" wait you meant hardness" 

My water is 7.8 out of the tap, but once the co2 gasses off it raises to 8-8.2

[Jawjagrrl]

On 10/1/2021 at 6:27 PM, amr427 said:

I was going to get tetras this weekend but I see a lot of you saying they don't do well in hard water so 🤔  

If you can find tetras that were hatched out locally, they will likely be adpated to your water. Keep in mind most of the fish we buy aren't wild caught (yes, I see you Otos) and as such probably don't live in the water parameters their wild cousins do. If you are lucky enough to live in an area with a club or similar, they can be great places to find locally raised fish of types you might not expect.

My water isn't super hard here (200 GH, 80 KH), and I finally decided to try neons after not doing so when I had *really* hard water as a newb and was warned they were difficult in that water. I had them about 4 years without the best tank maintenance. 

[Odd Duck]

On 10/2/2021 at 12:56 PM, StockEwe49 said:

What does everyone mean when talking about "Stem-plants"? Are Crypts an example? Just curious because I have hard water and plants are doing fine.

Stem plants are plants that produce leaves along a vertical stem, then there’s a gap with only stem (even if it’s very short), and then more leaves, etc, like Ludwigia species or hornwort among many others.

Crypts, swords, Vals, Aponogetons, are not stem plants since their leaves arise from a more or less bulb like structure that is typically under the substrate.  Anubias, Bucephalandras, and ferns like Java fern or Bolbitis are not considered stem plants since their leaves arise directly from a mostly horizontal rhizome (which looks similar to a stem but isn’t quite the same).

Different plants will do differently in everyone’s tank.  I generally do poorly with most stem plants, but water wisteria is doing OK in several tanks, now, and I have some Ludwigia ovalis that’s doing OK.  I can’t seem to keep hornwort alive at all despite rumors (blatant lies if you ask me 😆) that it does well in hard water.  I’ve done well with most crypts, swords, Vals, red root floaters, Amazon frogbit, a lot of Buces and Anubias, and most ferns I’ve tried.  Hornwort is apparently my Achilles heel.  Stem plants are very mixed for me.  I do know that scarlet temple (Alternanthera reineckii) is really not my friend so far, YMMV.  I’m making one last try with growing some emerse because submerged has been a complete flop in 5 tanks so far.

There are people here that do smashingly well with stem plants, so if you want to grow them, follow their advice, not mine.  😆 😉 Good luck with your plants/tanks.  Loads of people on here will be able to help with almost any plant question.

[Torrey]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:59 PM, Odd Duck said:

 I can’t seem to keep hornwort alive at all despite rumors (blatant lies if you ask me 😆)

I'm starting to wonder what *exactly* the solids are making up your TDS🤔

[StockEwe49]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:59 PM, Odd Duck said:

There are people here that do smashingly well with stem plants, so if you want to grow them, follow their advice, not mine.  😆 😉 Good luck with your plants/tanks.  Loads of people on here will be able to help with almost any plant question.

Thanks @Odd Duck for replying to my question! Yea some plants can just be hit or miss. I've had great success with hornwort but I've heard they will just "randomly" lose their needles at times, hoping that won't happen to me anytime soon 😆!

[Odd Duck]

On 10/2/2021 at 11:41 PM, StockEwe49 said:

Thanks @Odd Duck for replying to my question! Yea some plants can just be hit or miss. I've had great success with hornwort but I've heard they will just "randomly" lose their needles at times, hoping that won't happen to me anytime soon 😆!

Here’s wishing you better luck with the hornwort than I’ve had.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 10/2/2021 at 8:21 PM, Endler enthusiast said:

What types of cave fish do you speak of??

Any type of cave fish should be able to be kept in hard water because caves are dissolved from limestone.  All the solutes washing out forming the cave results in pretty hard water in cave systems.  In terms of what you can find, well, it will take some looking. 

If you are after tetras, I've seen both the eyed and blind versions of Mexican cave tetras (Astyanax mexicanus) available before.  If correct, I've even seen the blind forms labeled as coming from specific caves.  Specifically, I have a record of one claiming they were from Cueva Chica Cave in Mexico - but I have no way of knowing if that is correct because there are many caves with forms in differing states of vision loss.  But it's a tetra that should take pretty hard water in any of the forms, and I believe can be captive bred.