Newb question...can plants get burned by submerged heater?

[samuraikitty7]

*edit...my plants are not burnt, just planted actually, I'm just concerned since I'm new to this.

Hi, been a long time out of fishkeeping, and first time trying live plants.  I just got some hornwort I ordered online and of the two best spots to plant some in my ten gallon, one was next to the heater (Tetra 50w 2-10 gal).  I bought them for my little colony of ghost shrimp since I heard they like it and I like the look of it.  I've been searching the last couple days but can't find anything about the heater burning the plants?  It does have a guard on the bottom.  I've enclosed pics of where the one I'm concerned about is.  I know the heater isn't in the best spot for even distribution, but with the rock there it was the best spot.  My betta loves to sit on top of it, lol.  Maybe he likes a warm tail...

And....yes I know I have brown algae, my nerite loves the stuff on the sides and the shrimp love it on the ground and rock.  My blue mystery covers the whole tank all day but doesn't seem to chow down on it like the nerite.  It appeared about a week ago.  If it gets beyond what my nerite can handle, I will scrape it off.  The other pic is the hornwort on the other side of the filter.  I can tell already that it's gonna be a mess to deal with!  I got it originally for a dedicated shrimp tank that is on hold atm.

Thanks so much for any info!  Appreciate this group!

Edited October 1, 2021 by samuraikitty7
clarification

[Flumpweesel]

I have plants around my heater and never give it thought .  I would expect that it would have to get very hot to hurt them the water flow should disburse the heat enough. I think your fish and inverts would be struggling if it was causing a damaging hot spot in there. 

[samuraikitty7]

On 9/30/2021 at 3:04 PM, Flumpweesel said:

I have plants around my heater and never give it thought .  I would expect that it would have to get very hot to hurt them the water flow should disburse the heat enough. I think your fish and inverts would be struggling if it was causing a damaging hot spot in there. 

Interesting!  I've never had live plants and I just stuck them in this morning.  Then I got to thinking...what if a branch or something was lying against the heater?  I honestly don't know how hot they get to touch, but I suppose one that small wouldn't put out that much.  Thanks for the response!

Hope all is good because already my betta and shrimps seem to like the hornwort.

[Guppysnail]

I don’t put mine to close because I worry it will obstruct flow to actually circulate the heat. I worry the heater will turn off sensing the correct temp but the heat has not circulated through the tank. I have no clue if it would actually burn a plant. 

I am wrong I do know. I had hornwort and pothos roots that grew overzealous and got wrapped around the heater and were not burnt. 

[samuraikitty7]

On 9/30/2021 at 5:51 PM, Guppysnail said:

I don’t put mine to close because I worry it will obstruct flow to actually circulate the heat. I worry the heater will turn off sensing the correct temp but the heat has not circulated through the tank. I have no clue if it would actually burn a plant. 

I am wrong I do know. I had hornwort and pothos roots that grew overzealous and got wrapped around the heater and were not burnt. 

Oh wow!  Good to know.

[Ken]

I'm pretty sure you can put the heater wherever the heck you want. Early on I carefully placed them according to instructions with nothing nearby. Then I noticed that in quite a few videos done by people that had more experience than me @Irene they were tucked out of the way and and not even placed at the proper angle!? I've seen snails crawling on mine while the light it on. They must not get overly hot while in the water.

[samuraikitty7]

On 9/30/2021 at 6:32 PM, Ken said:

I'm pretty sure you can put the heater wherever the heck you want. Early on I carefully placed them according to instructions with nothing nearby. Then I noticed that in quite a few videos done by people that had more experience than me @Irene they were tucked out of the way and and not even placed at the proper angle!? I've seen snails crawling on mine while the light it on. They must not get overly hot while in the water.

Possibly not.  My snails haven't gone on mine while in my presence, but my shrimp will hang out on the guard.  I've seen several videos by Irene on YouTube.  They convinced me to try this live plant thing, lol.  She's awesome.  I'll have to go back and look because I've not even noticed heaters in her tanks!

[Brandon p]

It may not be the heat from the heater. It could be the the electricity from the heater. First let’s start with the heat. I have never had a plant that is so sensitive heat. I have corkscrew Val and different swords. I try to keep my heaters out of the way from plants if I can. Second there are study’s that show that electricity can May plants from differently. There are a lot and they are lots of facts there for me to put 1-5 peer reviewed would waste time when the mostly all say it can effect the look and growth. Slow say they grow fast some slow but they likely mostly say that there is a growing change. 
 

Could it just be that the plants are just getting used to the water most aquarium plants are grown above water and move underbefore sell. It takes awhile for the leaves the to transform to the new under water environment.  
I think it’s the last one  probably 

[samuraikitty7]

I guess I need to clarify that my plants aren't burnt.  The hornwort just arrived and was planted in my tank yesterday in two spots.  I'm just a worrier and question everything, especially after I had a disastrous beginning when I started the tank (or more likely NOT started the tank) a month and a half ago.  I have been having to relearn and redo everything!

Very glad for this forum and subreddits and Youtube.  I hope I won't be a terrible pest to everyone!

[Hobbit]

You will not be a pest! Are you kidding? We love any excuse to talk about aquariums! I mean, we love helping people! 😄 (Seriously though, I think most of us like both. 😉 )

I actually do have a plant that I think gets burned by my heater. It’s a large anubias with long, sword-like leaves. But I haven’t moved it—I just let it lose the leaves that were against the heater. Oh well.

Also, just be aware that hornwort often drops all its needles in new water because it’s a drama queen. (The needles will grow back after a while.) So if something happens, it might not have anything to do with your heater.

[samuraikitty7]

On 9/30/2021 at 8:59 PM, Hobbit said:

You will not be a pest! Are you kidding? We love any excuse to talk about aquariums! I mean, we love helping people! 😄 (Seriously though, I think most of us like both. 😉 )

I actually do have a plant that I think gets burned by my heater. It’s a large anubias with long, sword-like leaves. But I haven’t moved it—I just let it lose the leaves that were against the heater. Oh well.

Also, just be aware that hornwort often drops all its needles in new water because it’s a drama queen. (The needles will grow back after a while.) So if something happens, it might not have anything to do with your heater.

Lol, yes, it's already been a bit of a mess.  I've been skimming the needles off the surface. =D  But my shrimp seem to LOVE it....

[Brandon p]

You are past of us now. I have 20 gallons will Amazon sword, Red melon sword, pennywort, jungle val. It’s rocked with ghost shrimp(about25 of 12 to start). 24 neon tetra, blue mystery snails and ramshorn.( I could trade the some of the mystery snails.

I ask somethings that I’m sure that people are not rolling on the floor 

[WestFishTanks]

I agree with the others here, the heater won’t get hot enough to damage the plants in any way. Should be all good thankfully!

On a different note you might want to try floating the hornwort, it usually doesn’t do well long term planted because it is much more adapted to a floating lifestyle. Plus it gets more CO2 from any leaves that come out of the water and it’s closer to the light!

I’ve always had nerites do a much better job on brown algae (diatoms) than mystery snails, but mystery snails do a great job at cleaning up uneaten food and deceased organisms. Horned Nerite snails are especially good at the brown diatom algae too! Best of luck 🙂

[samuraikitty7]

On 9/30/2021 at 11:43 PM, WestFishTanks said:

I agree with the others here, the heater won’t get hot enough to damage the plants in any way. Should be all good thankfully!

On a different note you might want to try floating the hornwort, it usually doesn’t do well long term planted because it is much more adapted to a floating lifestyle. Plus it gets more CO2 from any leaves that come out of the water and it’s closer to the light!

I’ve always had nerites do a much better job on brown algae (diatoms) than mystery snails, but mystery snails do a great job at cleaning up uneaten food and deceased organisms. Horned Nerite snails are especially good at the brown diatom algae too! Best of luck 🙂

Thank you!!!  As far as the hornwort, my betta has enough issue eating...I practically have to hand feed him.  So I didn't want to float the hornwort and give the diva fits.  If I get my shrimp only tank set up then yes, that was the plan, but that had to be put on hold for a bit.

I'm not sure what my mystery is eating but it's enough because he's gotten HUGE!  I didn't realize how big they could get until after I had him for a bit.  He has such a personality, too, never thought I'd say that for a snail.  At 2" he is the boss of the tank, lol.

Oh, and I got a surprise last night...a baby ramshorn snail just appeared!  Must've come on the plants even though they weren't supposed to have any.  But he's welcome....already eating the brown algae.

[WestFishTanks]

On 10/1/2021 at 1:38 PM, samuraikitty7 said:

Thank you!!!  As far as the hornwort, my betta has enough issue eating...I practically have to hand feed him.  So I didn't want to float the hornwort and give the diva fits.  If I get my shrimp only tank set up then yes, that was the plan, but that had to be put on hold for a bit.

I'm not sure what my mystery is eating but it's enough because he's gotten HUGE!  I didn't realize how big they could get until after I had him for a bit.  He has such a personality, too, never thought I'd say that for a snail.  At 2" he is the boss of the tank, lol.

Oh, and I got a surprise last night...a baby ramshorn snail just appeared!  Must've come on the plants even though they weren't supposed to have any.  But he's welcome....already eating the brown algae.

Ah gotcha that sounds good then! Just wanted to make sure you knew so no unwanted melting would happen at the stem. You could always try one of the plant weights too for the hornwort! That way it isn’t obstructing the betta feeding, but you don’t get the rotting from the planted portion.

Haha awesome I’m glad the mystery is doing so well! They’re probably eating anything and everything: leftover betta food, dying plants, algae, etc. Mystery snails are an all-around decomposer for sure! Never listen to the people that call snails a pest, even ramshorns and bladder/pond snails. They’re amazing algae eaters, especially for small areas like plant leaves and crevices! They only become a nuisance if you’re over feeding, but they’re similar to algae in my mind where they help to fix an imbalance in the tank (too much food). If you’re ever interested in getting pea puffers too then the baby ramshorns make great food!

[samuraikitty7]

On 10/1/2021 at 1:45 PM, WestFishTanks said:

Ah gotcha that sounds good then! Just wanted to make sure you knew so no unwanted melting would happen at the stem. You could always try one of the plant weights too for the hornwort! That way it isn’t obstructing the betta feeding, but you don’t get the rotting from the planted portion.

Haha awesome I’m glad the mystery is doing so well! They’re probably eating anything and everything: leftover betta food, dying plants, algae, etc. Mystery snails are an all-around decomposer for sure! Never listen to the people that call snails a pest, even ramshorns and bladder/pond snails. They’re amazing algae eaters, especially for small areas like plant leaves and crevices! They only become a nuisance if you’re over feeding, but they’re similar to algae in my mind where they help to fix an imbalance in the tank (too much food). If you’re ever interested in getting pea puffers too then the baby ramshorns make great food!

The last time I kept fish was like 25 years ago, and I always heard snails were bad.  But like anything...in moderation, lol.  I enjoy watching my big blue's antics, and his face is adorable (and yes I know he's a he, dunno on the others).  Of course I didn't know tiny shrimp in aquariums were a thing until a couple months ago and I thought...I gotta have some!  I have several ghosts and although they aren't pretty, they are funny.  I wish they lived longer...

I'll keep an eye out for root rot.  I've seen many pics and videos of them planted.  I am using a substrate specifically for plants, CaribSea EcoComplete.  I don't know if that will make a difference or not.

[WestFishTanks]

On 10/1/2021 at 1:57 PM, samuraikitty7 said:

The last time I kept fish was like 25 years ago, and I always heard snails were bad.  But like anything...in moderation, lol.  I enjoy watching my big blue's antics, and his face is adorable (and yes I know he's a he, dunno on the others).  Of course I didn't know tiny shrimp in aquariums were a thing until a couple months ago and I thought...I gotta have some!  I have several ghosts and although they aren't pretty, they are funny.  I wish they lived longer...

I'll keep an eye out for root rot.  I've seen many pics and videos of them planted.  I am using a substrate specifically for plants, CaribSea EcoComplete.  I don't know if that will make a difference or not.

Welcome back to the hobby then! Always fun to get back into it if you’ve been out for a while 🙂 Most people just don’t know how to deal with them well so they say they’re bad, but snails are great for a well functioning ecosystem! Shrimp are definitely super fun, I’m a big Neocaridina (Cherry Shrimp and other colors) fan. If you’ve had success with ghost shrimp I would try cherries or Amano shrimp, much longer life span and they don’t cannibalize like ghost shrimp do! 
To be fair hornwort is very hardy so it doesn’t melt back as much as other plants unless you run out of nitrates for it, so it may survive fine in the gravel. Probably helps if it’s not a compact substrate like sand, so nutrients are still getting down there through the water. I love eco complete! Much cheaper than aquasoil, and it naturally holds fertilizer in itself like storage.

[samuraikitty7]

On 10/1/2021 at 3:20 PM, WestFishTanks said:

Welcome back to the hobby then! Always fun to get back into it if you’ve been out for a while 🙂 Most people just don’t know how to deal with them well so they say they’re bad, but snails are great for a well functioning ecosystem! Shrimp are definitely super fun, I’m a big Neocaridina (Cherry Shrimp and other colors) fan. If you’ve had success with ghost shrimp I would try cherries or Amano shrimp, much longer life span and they don’t cannibalize like ghost shrimp do! 
To be fair hornwort is very hardy so it doesn’t melt back as much as other plants unless you run out of nitrates for it, so it may survive fine in the gravel. Probably helps if it’s not a compact substrate like sand, so nutrients are still getting down there through the water. I love eco complete! Much cheaper than aquasoil, and it naturally holds fertilizer in itself like storage.

Thanks!  I actually got cherry shrimp right away....new tank......one survivor.  It was devastating.  So I started a tank for just cherries but I misunderstood the cycle and now am dealing with a nasty biofilm.  Now that I've been paid I'm going to get some turtle sludge destroyer as was recommended to me here by a member and try to salvage it, since for me the ecocomplete is expensive.  I'm on a limited budget and forgot how expensive this hobby was!  Spent more than I should have and nearly gave up. but am really getting entertained by everyone in my main tank and I need the cheering up.

So in my tank I have four adult ghosts (one berried), four juvenile ghosts, and one cherry who is in love with the hornwort...then one each blue mystery, nerite, and ramshorn.  The crown is my diva rosetail betta. 😃

Edited October 2, 2021 by samuraikitty7

[Guppysnail]

On 10/1/2021 at 10:55 PM, samuraikitty7 said:

Thanks!  I actually got cherry shrimp right away....new tank......one survivor.  It was devastating.  So I started a tank for just cherries but I misunderstood the cycle and now am dealing with a nasty biofilm.  Now that I've been paid I'm going to get some turtle sludge destroyer as was recommended to me here by a member and try to salvage it, since for me the ecocomplete is expensive.  I'm on a limited budget and forgot how expensive this hobby was!  Spent more than I should have and nearly gave up. but am really getting entertained by everyone in my main tank and I need the cheering up.

So in my tank I have four adult ghosts (one berried), three juvenile ghosts, and one cherry who is in love with the hornwort...then one each blue mystery, nerite, and ramshorn.  The crown is my diva rosetail betta. 😃

Fresh steamed or blanched veggies are great for shrimp.  Don’t worry if they do not eat immediately.  Veggies grow biofilm quick. Make sure you remove the veggies after 8 hours in a new tank 12 once it’s more established so it does not cause ammonia spikes. You can use canned green no salt added veggies as well. You absolutely do not need to spend a lot on shrimp. Any food for any aquatic creature they will eat no need for expensive specialty food. New tanks a tiny tiny bit is all they need. After your tank is seasoned for 8-10 months you will not need to feed. I have not intentionally fed my shrimp in any tank in well over a year because they liter have become an invasive species like duckweed to me. I call them tiny terrorists 🤣 wondershells do amazing things for neocaridina 😁

Shrimp and snails will devour that biofilm

Edited October 2, 2021 by Guppysnail

[samuraikitty7]

I've heard about the veggies and might look into that.  Plus dedicated shrimp food.  If you see my post abought the biofilm, it is NASTY, SMELLY, and from what I hear not to have around shrimp or fish.  They supposedly like the while biofilm created by wood brought it, but so far no one has shown an interest.

I just got the aquarium ready with rocks for them to hide in, java fern, java moss, and some other things, then didn't run the filter because I didn't think I needed to.  Two weeks of the plants and stuff just decomposing.  Yep, to cycle the tank you gotta run the filter.  Plus other good advice was an air stone along with the mini filter that came with the tank (5.2 gal).  I'm looking at different options, because it came right back after I drained all the water but didn't rinse the plants and only using low flow filter.  I got lots and lots to learn, and unfortunately a number of dead cherries in my past.  I cried!

[Guppysnail]

On 10/1/2021 at 11:32 PM, samuraikitty7 said:

I've heard about the veggies and might look into that.  Plus dedicated shrimp food.  If you see my post abought the biofilm, it is NASTY, SMELLY, and from what I hear not to have around shrimp or fish.  They supposedly like the while biofilm created by wood brought it, but so far no one has shown an interest.

I just got the aquarium ready with rocks for them to hide in, java fern, java moss, and some other things, then didn't run the filter because I didn't think I needed to.  Two weeks of the plants and stuff just decomposing.  Yep, to cycle the tank you gotta run the filter.  Plus other good advice was an air stone along with the mini filter that came with the tank (5.2 gal).  I'm looking at different options, because it came right back after I drained all the water but didn't rinse the plants and only using low flow filter.  I got lots and lots to learn, and unfortunately a number of dead cherries in my past.  I cried!

Oh my yes I read that post. I did not realize that’s the biofilm you meant. No I don’t think anything would survive that. Definitely turtle sludge 😁

I cry when I lose water pets too

Edited October 2, 2021 by Guppysnail

[WestFishTanks]

On 10/1/2021 at 8:32 PM, samuraikitty7 said:

I've heard about the veggies and might look into that.  Plus dedicated shrimp food.  If you see my post abought the biofilm, it is NASTY, SMELLY, and from what I hear not to have around shrimp or fish.  They supposedly like the while biofilm created by wood brought it, but so far no one has shown an interest.

I just got the aquarium ready with rocks for them to hide in, java fern, java moss, and some other things, then didn't run the filter because I didn't think I needed to.  Two weeks of the plants and stuff just decomposing.  Yep, to cycle the tank you gotta run the filter.  Plus other good advice was an air stone along with the mini filter that came with the tank (5.2 gal).  I'm looking at different options, because it came right back after I drained all the water but didn't rinse the plants and only using low flow filter.  I got lots and lots to learn, and unfortunately a number of dead cherries in my past.  I cried!

Ah man I’m so sorry that happened! Never heard of using turtle sludge destroyer for the biofilm, I hope it works well. Let me know if that helps please! Would love to recommend it in the future if it does. Cherries can definitely be difficult in new tanks, but once they’re in a stable environment they grow like crazy! Went from 6 cherry shrimp to about 300 in my 38 gallon lol! That’s the best part of this hobby, always so much to learn 🙂 hopefully the plants start growing and offset that waste, if you don’t have it my favorite fast growing plant is Pogostemon stellatus octopus. That thing sucks up waste like crazy, and then you’ll have infinite background plants 😂 Might be a bit fast for a smaller tanks, but just something to try if the java fern and moss isn’t cutting it. Haha it definitely can be expensive! I’m very frugal with my setups so it can definitely be less expensive, and experience helps that too. Losing fish and shrimp sucks but I’m happy you’re sticking with it!

[Jungle Fan]

Never been an issue, I have had plants next to heaters for several decades and it 's never been a problem. Currently in my 75 gallon tank the heater is located in a clump of Ozelot, and Red Flame Sword plants that are growing like crazy and have to be trimmed back every few weeks.