BlueLineAquaticsSC Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 My LFS started carrying cheap feeder crayfish and I thought one might be cool in my tank, but I wouldn’t want to risk it going after fish. I’ve heard some people dethumb crayfish to avoid this but I don’t know much about it. Does anyone know is it easy? Do they grow back? Is it cruel for the crayfish? Will it negatively effect the Crayfishes health? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppysnail Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 I have read a brief post somewhere of rubber banding the claws like they do with lobsters in stores I assume. I wanted this adorable little crayfish but did not get for this reason. I’m being sincere not criticizing in this reply so please I mean no offense to anyone but yes i would think it cruel to rubber band or dethumb(never heard of it) It could no longer preform normal tasks that are part of its nature. If dethumbing means removing a portion I’m uncertain how they would feed? Physically Altering or restricting movement of any creature for our pleasure does seem cruel to me. Again not being critical or judgmental as I’ve never even heard of dethumbing I never researched that far…. just trying to give my opinion on this aspect that you asked about. On 9/29/2021 at 7:01 PM, BlueLineAquaticsSC said: Is it cruel for the crayfish? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudofish Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 We can't always get the livestock we want. There's lots of fish I'd love to have but I just don't have the proper tank for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 I personally would not get a crayfish if you are concerned about it going after your existing fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLineAquaticsSC Posted September 30, 2021 Author Share Posted September 30, 2021 For reference dethumbing is the process of removing the hinged part of the claw so that it only has one of the “scissor blades”. And the large claws to my knowledge are not used for feeding with the exception of catching live prey which one in an aquarium would not need to do. That being said I was not planning on going this route unless someone with actual experience can tell me it has no negative effects for the crayfish. If I find any good information on this topic I’ll post it here if anyone is curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty o Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 pulling off body parts sure cant be good for it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.K.Luterman Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 If you really want a crayfish, why not set up a tank for one? I don't think mutilating a creature just to fit our desires is the right thing to do. Plus, shellfish can regenerate lost body parts when they molt. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadMax8 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 9:54 AM, lefty o said: pulling off body parts sure cant be good for it. Agreed. Beyond the obvious cruelty to the animal, you'd probably have to really know what you're doing to remove the right part, and even then trying to do it on an upset critter could be a disaster. Plus then you run the risk of infection and death of the animal. I would love to have a crayfish but right now I'm limited to two tanks... If I could set up a 3rd I'd set it up with some fast fish and a crayfish at the bottom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotope Biologist Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 There are parts of a crayfish's claw that are detachable to escape predators. Sometimes they will "throw their claw" at a predator. I believe they have gone viral for this behavior. I don't know how many molts it takes to regrow a claw, but they can and will regenerate. I have never heard of dethumbing, but that's because of how the claw works. The bottom part is attached to a long fibrous muscle that ratchets shut. If you were to cut this the crayfish does not have a mechanism to shut this piece off and could risk infection. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Struggle Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/29/2021 at 6:21 PM, Guppysnail said: IPhysically Altering or restricting movement of any creature for our pleasure does seem cruel to me. To be honest that’s what we’re doing when we put them in our glass boxes. On 9/29/2021 at 6:21 PM, Guppysnail said: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon p Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 Full disclosure I have kept crayfish with fish. I have not altered the crayfish and any way others getting them Ali it’ll more forte that’s if they were ing species only tank. I need more information tank sizes: tank mates: would you consider a different type of crayfish Yes the claws will re grow. There are some species of cards take the big claws is removed from the crab and roses over and there is a pretty good recapture rate before the claw can be reharvester @BlueLineAquaticsSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisnobody Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 If removing a body part is the only way you could have a crayfish, then I’d say don’t get a crayfish. Or get rid of your fish and then the crayfish can have a nice home. You could easily house a crayfish in a 20 gallon (maybe even 10), so why not just set up a species only tank? Either way, I’d say do one or the other, but definitely don’t modify it for your liking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLineAquaticsSC Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 For the record I’m not dead set on trying to make sure I can put a crayfish in my tank. If it doesn’t work it doesn’t work and that’s fine. This was more out of curiosity after having read on another forum of people doing this and claiming success, and like most people here it sounded like a bad idea to me but I want to get other opinions. The two major points they made were that the appendage does grow back (one guy claimed the thumb grows back one each molt) and that as Biotope mentioned many crayfish will intentionally throw a claw if it becomes a hinderance or to avoid danger, which they also took to mean the crayfish would be unlikely to feel pain at the loss of the appendage since its biology is designed to lose and regrow them (not sure if there is anyway to prove this though) The other big point being that the big claw is not essential for the crawfish if it doesn’t need to hunt/fight for territory/defend from predators, which it would not need to do in an aquarium. I would guess that a lot of people would make a quality of life argument and say something along the line of “you don’t need your thumbs to service either but I bet you like having them” however I’m not sure the crayfish has enough intelligence to actually realize a quality of life change as long as it can still eat, stay healthy, and remain unstressed without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Struggle Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 While I don’t agree with disfiguring any creature I also don’t agree with the whole holyier than others rescuing this and that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLineAquaticsSC Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) I think this also brings up a good debate for what is and isn’t animal cruelty. If someone where to rip of a crayfish’s arm for fun then I would definitely call that cruel. If some scientist was studying crayfish regeneration and removed an arm to study its molting and regrowth process I don’t think I would call that cruel. I also keep chickens and I clip their wings every year. This is a removal of one of their appendages which greatly restricts their movement and decreases their chance for survival should a predator come in my yard and attack them (and I have lost a whole flock to a raccoon before) however since I live in a suburban environment it is essential to keep my chickens in my yard and away from cars, dogs, etc. On the other hand I have two indoor cats who drive me crazy tearing up my furniture and walls, however I would never declaw them because I have heard it is very painful and the pain can last for months. This may go into pets vs livestock and if one has any intrinsic value over the other. I am very against people keeping pet fish in poor conditions. For example if your favorite fish is a red tail catfish and you go buy that 4” fry as a pet from the local chain store for $10 and force it to live a miserable existence in a 150g tank then I would call that cruel. If you however want to keep it as a livestock fish and buy that same little guy and keep him in your 150g until he outgrows it and then cook him up for dinner, I would have no problem with that. Going back to the crayfish, it is a feeder crayfish. I would say most of us, whether we realize it or not, think of our fish that we keep as pets and fish we use as feeders as livestock. I have never felt cruel about feeding live minnows to my Bichir and I would bet if Mr. Crayfish could choose between living a peaceful life in my 90g at the cost of two thumbs or being torn apart by a hungry Fahaka Puffer, he would go with the former. I’d like to hear other peoples thoughts on this. Edited October 1, 2021 by BlueLineAquaticsSC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 My neighbor has Dobermans, they cut off their tail, cut off their ears, cut off their dewclaws and then spay or neuter them. Apparently all that is what is normal for that portion of the pet ownership world. I'm not sure where I personally draw the line, I think I'll leave it up to those involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon p Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 The it does grow back. Very similar to stonecrabs. I don’t I personally not think they feel pain at that join. The little research I’ve done agree,but I’m sure there opposing views. You could easily do that I won’t not making a big deal like about it. There are some of the mini crayfish that will work it’s up to you. Most of the Aquarium Community would probably not be with you but they may have no problems feeding the same crayfish to a puffer, or that would live it’s live with great care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXInkedPhoenixX Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 @Ken let alone spaying and neutering! All I think @BlueLineAquaticsSC was getting to is if anybody had any experience and if this was bad- and if it is they wouldn't do it. Seems the consensus is don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon p Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 https://www.finsatsharkys.com/about/news/7-fresh-facts-about-stone-crabs just an example on using this to Keep resources available for the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLineAquaticsSC Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 10:24 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said: @Ken let alone spaying and neutering! All I think @BlueLineAquaticsSC was getting to is if anybody had any experience and if this was bad- and if it is they wouldn't do it. Seems the consensus is don't. You are correct On 9/30/2021 at 10:20 PM, Ken said: My neighbor has Dobermans, they cut off their tail, cut off their ears, cut off their dewclaws and then spay or neuter them. Apparently all that is what is normal for that portion of the pet ownership world. I'm not sure where I personally draw the line, I think I'll leave it up to those involved. That’s a good point. Tail docking and ear clipping is done all the time for no reason other than aesthetics, however they were originally done to prevent working dogs from getting injuries. Herding dogs would often get broken tails from being stepped on, and guarding dogs would often get torn ears from squabbles with each other or from protecting their flock from predators, which is how these practices came to be. Was it cruel then, is it cruel now? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 9:20 PM, Ken said: My neighbor has Dobermans, they cut off their tail, cut off their ears, cut off their dewclaws and then spay or neuter them. Apparently all that is what is normal for that portion of the pet ownership world. I'm not sure where I personally draw the line, I think I'll leave it up to those involved. Most vets are moving away from docking ears and tails and removing dewclaws. It’s illegal in many countries now unless medically necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrey Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 10:00 PM, Odd Duck said: Most vets are moving away from docking ears and tails and removing dewclaws. It’s illegal in many countries now unless medically necessary. Having seen the suffering of a caught dew claw, I am not sure how I feel about this. Europe banned docking decades ago. I have a fondness for large dogs who can't clear the coffee table with a single wag... and wish vets would use an anesthetic if they are going to dock or declaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 8:24 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said: @Ken let alone spaying and neutering! All I think @BlueLineAquaticsSC was getting to is if anybody had any experience and if this was bad- and if it is they wouldn't do it. Seems the consensus is don't. Yeah, I kind wandered down the whole pet keeping ethics hole. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 11:18 PM, Torrey said: Having seen the suffering of a caught dew claw, I am not sure how I feel about this. Europe banned docking decades ago. I have a fondness for large dogs who can't clear the coffee table with a single wag... and wish vets would use an anesthetic if they are going to dock or declaw. If dewclaws are kept trimmed, or the dogs are getting appropriate outdoor activity where the dewclaws wear down normally, they rarely snag or tear. Now, loose, dangling rear dewclaws are very appropriate to remove, but it’s difficult to tell if they’re going to be useful or useless at 3 days old which is the traditional time for removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrey Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 10:28 PM, Odd Duck said: If dewclaws are kept trimmed, or the dogs are getting appropriate outdoor activity where the dewclaws wear down normally, they rarely snag or tear. Now, loose, dangling rear dewclaws are very appropriate to remove, but it’s difficult to tell if they’re going to be useful or useless at 3 days old which is the traditional time for removal. Our vet used anesthetic and removed at 48 hours, while pups were suckling. Seemed like the most humane thing to do, and prevented problems down the road, so for me it was worth it. I am not okay with anything being cut, or injected, or stitched, w/o at least a local. I just don't see the point in needless suffering. I was surprised by how many vets don't want to "waste" the anesthetic.🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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