Fish tank bacteria hurting people?

[Ender97]

I came across this news story this morning and wanted to see if anyone else had seen it. I know is is always important to wash you hands after working on your tanks, but this is a whole new level of worry. https://www.yahoo.com/news/clue-emerged-possible-source-rare-182056652.html

[Tanked]

On 9/29/2021 at 6:07 AM, Ender97 said:

I came across this news story this morning and wanted to see if anyone else had seen it. I know is is always important to wash you hands after working on your tanks, but this is a whole new level of worry. https://www.yahoo.com/news/clue-emerged-possible-source-rare-182056652.html

Interesting article.  I would think that unless you or the LFS are dealing with wild caught fish and plants, you are relatively safe.  Two reported cases out of the estimated 11.4 million households with aquariums makes the connection tenuous at best. 

Because they saw fit to include a stray comment about Covid, the credibility of the whole report suffered.

 

[Ender97]

I agree, but figure that a little information can go a long way.

[Kathy F]

My 17 year old has Natural Killer Cell functional deficiency due to his partial 7q monosomy genetic syndrome and we have kept aquariums for years.   I have had one set up near his hospital bed for 2 years now with no issue.   He doesn't do the maintenance due to his disabilities but we have not had any incidences.  Always a good idea to wash your hands when you care for any animals fecal output and fish do poop in the water so yes, I do wash my hands after they have been in the aquarium but hand washing precautions are universal for all animals not just fish.   If you are really concerned you can talk to your doctor directly about it and get their input.   Your doctor is really your best source for information in regards to health impacts of your various life activities.   

Edited September 29, 2021 by Kathy F

[Guppysnail]

I followed the link to the actual research article. Proper hand washing and glove wearing with open wounds eliminates the threat. Good to think about though as different diseases are very prevalent in other countries where they have built up a slight modicum of resistance that we (whatever other country you reside) have not. Many that live in waterways so importing fish and plants does have the potential to expose us. 

[sudofish]

I don't like to put my hands in the aquarium if I have a cut. I have shoulder length chemical handler gloves for that purpose. I'm also a hand washer and 4 year olds like in the article are definitely not and they are always putting their hands in their mouth. It's easy to take those precautions so I don't know why you wouldn't. Then again I'm one of those crazy people who actually doesn't mind wearing a mask.

[Biotope Biologist]

While you should wash your hands with animals I agree with @Tanked here that the connection between this bacteria and aquariums specifically is tenuous at best. Burkholderia pseudomallei has been found to be able to survive in water devoid of nutrients for 16 years. It also has the ability to grow and survive in a broad range of temperatures and has been found in soils as well as water. It seems interesting to me that the investigators did not include in their analysis that the two subjects could have inoculated the aquarium water they reached into. Seeing as that could be a perfect  environment for it to grow out of control. Nor did they test the water for specific parameters that could have been helpful for further investigation into the bacteria's virulence.

 

While the two patients hadn't traveled outside the U.S or consumed products that might be directly linked to Singapore  given the ability of this bacteria to survive in multiple aqueous environments and the increased trade from South Eastern Asia I would rather them increase their focus on studying how and why this bacteria becomes virulent in the first place, causing the disease. Seeing as the cases in which this bacteria becomes a problem are rare, even in it's home countries, it would seem there is still not enough research to point to aquariums directly as being the perfect place for this disease to emerge from. But consider that host and environmental factors are reasons for the heterogenous nature of the clinical presentation of the disease, including iron-depleted environments.

 

 

Sources:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5748966/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-27356-7

https://academic.oup.com/jimb/article/47/9-10/877/6046092?login=true#255558447

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/12/21-1756_article#r14

[Ender97]

@Biotope Biologist Thank you for the information. I figured posting this here would spur on some conversation and get more and better information then the article had in it.

[Biotope Biologist]

On 9/29/2021 at 1:41 PM, Ender97 said:

@Biotope Biologist Thank you for the information. I figured posting this here would spur on some conversation and get more and better information then the article had in it.

That was about an hour of investigation. I am always disappointed in the lack of research that articles present in their findings. I understand they were parroting the CDC investigation, in which I am also disappointed. 

 

I just hope my response wasn't too DENSE 😬. Those scientific articles I sourced are not for the faint of heart.

 

Thank you for this though! I do love the conversations they spark.

[Ender97]

Truth be told I would have done a bit more research my self but had bin up for over 20 hours and passed out just after I posted. The info is kind of fun to read.

[Gator]

First, my Parents and Grandparents told me to wash my hands.

Second, there is an Amoeba that lives in the mud at the bottom of lakes and rivers of the US that if it gets stirred up and gets into your eyes, nose, mouth, or ears, it gets in the bloodstream, goes directly to your brain, eats brain cells until you die, there is no cure or prevention.

I wish I could have been a little more positive.

[tolstoy21]

I often wonder about this after accidentally drinking tank water, or getting a mouthful of substrate sludge while starting a siphon.  My next thought is usually something like ‘meh, something will kill me eventually, might as well be this.’

Edited September 30, 2021 by tolstoy21

[CalmedByFish]

Kudos to all the careful thought and respect for facts in this thread. It feels so refreshing to be exposed to smart people. 😂 Good job, Humans!

[Lyca_Watyre]

That's pretty scary, but it looks like basic hygiene practices prevent most contamination. I'm honestly more worried about the common things like salmonella, though. Instead of my mouth, I do use a gravel vacuum to start siphons for this very reason.

[Hobbit]

As someone who was lab-trained after the turn of the millennium, I cannot bear the thought of starting a siphon with my mouth. That was NOT allowed!! 😝

It’s always interesting to learn about a new thing that could potentially kill us. We already know that harmful pathogens could be living in our aquariums, like Fish TB (which can infect open cuts), so this shouldn’t activate panic mode. But it’s a good reminder to wash our hands, be aware of scrapes, and fund further scientific research. 😊

[Torrey]

This was so refreshing to read, and exactly what I needed to restore my faith in humanity. 

 

Thank you everyone for honest, factual and responsible appraisal of the original article, and the subsequent research links.

Peer-reviewed research is such a wonderful thing, especially when recommendations are revised due to new data from new research. 

(This made my little science heart sing)

[Maggie]

I read the post and article, then did a little more research as it sounded way too easy to blame the aquarium water, especially, as @Biotope Biologistexplained, how virulent this bacteria is. There was no information at all on the government and medical websites about widespread disease in fish, though it seems that this would cause many more problems with handling or eating food fish than tropical aquarium fish. The only time I worried about catching something from my aquarium water was when I had a terrible bout of poison ivy on both forearms. I always wash my hands and arms with soap and rinse well before and after sticking them in the aquarium. To be honest I'm more worried about introducing a harmful substance (soap or lotion residue, or germs after petting my doggie) from my hands to the aquarium than vice versa. 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Quick update (I'm traveling and don't have much time).  Turns out the people who were suspicious of blaming aquariums were correct.  It ended up being aroma therapy spray:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mystery-of-exotic-infectious-disease-traced-to-aromatherapy-room-spray/ar-AAPRCQk

[lindabee53]

@OnlyGenusCaps Thanks for the update!  I wasn't really concerned about getting a deadly disease from my tank because I'm pretty careful, but as @Maggie said, I think more about passing something to my tank/fish.

[Biotope Biologist]

I must say my heart goes out to those affected, but the last paragraph of the article got me. As scientists we get so excited about finding something new that it can be difficult to take a step back and realize the gravity of the situation. 

I commend the epedimiologists for their delicate tenacity.

 

Thanks for the update!

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 10/23/2021 at 9:29 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

As scientists we get so excited about finding something new that it can be difficult to take a step back and realize the gravity of the situation.

I am too often guilty of this.  It's good to get a kind reminder (not that I was involved in this work or this article, but just in general).  Thank you, sir!

[eatyourpeas]

I think in general we have become a bit of a panic-reactive society. Not many people take the time to really question the source of some crazy material out there. I am not saying it is all exaggeration, but due diligence should be exercised before contributing to the spread of "wrong science", or "wrong facts" in general.

Mind the Gap.

Thank you for making this clear to us non-scientists. 🙂

Edited October 25, 2021 by eatyourpeas

[Torrey]

On 10/23/2021 at 8:29 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

I must say my heart goes out to those affected, but the last paragraph of the article got me. As scientists we get so excited about finding something new that it can be difficult to take a step back and realize the gravity of the situation. 

I commend the epedimiologists for their delicate tenacity.

 

Thanks for the update!

Agreed..... thank you for the reminder.