Hello from CA -- Getting back into the hobby after 15 years

[MatticusRexxor]

Hello,

Recently my sister told me that she wanted to get a small aquarium for her young daughters.  Helping her do research got me thinking about getting an aquarium of my own for the first time since I was in college.  This time around I'm trying to avoid the mistakes I made last time, like spending too much money on filter cartridges and not including an air stone.  I'd also like to give live plants a try.  I was hoping for any advice, and it would be awesome if anyone could answer any questions I had.

Here is the build I'm looking at:

• I'm probably going to go with a 20 gallon high tank.  The area I've chosen could technically fit a 29, but it wouldn't leave a ton of room for maintenance.
• For filtration I was looking at a Lee's Triple Flow Corner Filter as the primary filter, with an Aquarium Co-op Sponge Filter either paired with it or just cycled for if/when I need to quarantine.
• Air supply is up in the air, as it were.  Would two of the Co-op USB pumps be enough for that filter setup, or would I need something more powerful?  Noise is a consideration, as the tank will be in my room.
• I'd like to have live plants that are forgiving and relatively low maintenance.
• For stocking, I'm leaning towards Zebra Danios and Cory Cats, possibly with one or more Nerite Snails as clean up crew.  Is there a special kind of food for the snails?  Would Corys work if I had foreground groundcover plants?
• Is there a "centerpiece" fish that would work with those tankmates?

Any thoughts or advice would be most welcome.

Edited September 28, 2021 by MatticusRexxor

[ARMYVET]

I would go with the largest tank that I could accommodate. The reason is simple...in 10 min your going to wish you went bigger...I swear this is real!

Your filtration idea is great. I am doing something similar with exactly those products.

2 usb pump would take care of both of those without an issue for sure and they are dead silent!

Plants.....Anubias, java fern, wisteria, pogostemon octopus and some crypts and you will have one beautiful tank

you fish choice is perfect with the danios and corys. The nerite is a fave of mine as well as the mystery snail.  You could also do some shrimp.....some Amano would do well in that setup.

Food for snails...I feed green beans, zuchinni and whatever fish food they get their hands/ slime foot on...lol

Centerfish....If you splurge on the 29 there are alot more options....remember the 29 is 33% bigger in volume that the 20.  1/3 more water....A LOT MORE FORGIVING! 

[PedroPete]

Nice!

I like your ideas in terms of stocking. I would suggest a decent size group of both corys and danios. A centerpiece could be a honey gourami, an apistogramma, or a trio of male guppies.

I would suggest 2 Nerites and at least 2 amano shrimps for clean up.

As for plants,

- valisneria in aquasoil with root tabs plus some tall hair grass or water wisteria. (Any crypts could be mixed in. Also Rotala rotundafolia is pretty easy.)

- a blend of larger and smaller Anubias attached to small or larger stones depending on your desires for scape layout. (I also love and recommend Bolbitis.) 

keep us posted 🙂

[FrozenFins]

Welcome to the hobby!

The USB nano air pumps are very quiet, the quitest in the market IMO. I would suggest to get two aquarium co-op spongefilter instead of the triple-flow corner filter. Just because it looks like your going to need filter floss, carbon or something in that filter which would add to the costs. Adding two sponge filters one at either side of the aquarium is a good idea.

You can use two nano air pumps. Or you can use one air pump and just use air valves, would be cheaper.

Some plants that are forgiving would be something like Anubias. With my various failures in keeping plants, anubias has always been great for me. Crypts are another great plant. All though they would really benefit from root tabs. An important thing to note with crypts is that the leaves will melt back at first, but with enough nutrition it will grow back.

Your stocking seems fine. Snails usually aren't too picky and will do fine eating the left overs after your other fish. All thought they may take to some cucumber or repashy. Danios and corydora would do great in that setup!

Perhaps a gourami, or betta would be cool as a center peice fish.

[Odd Duck]

Lots of smart people around here and some very sound advice already.

The most important thing for new aquarists to learn is to be patient!  Wait longer than you think you’ll need to for the filters to mature their colonies of beneficial bacteria.  I’m a big fan of sponge filters, myself, and even when I use hang on back (HOB) filters, I pack them with sponge blocks and put sponge prefilters on them.

Get good test strips (like from ACO) or an API Master Test Kit and learn how to properly test your water.  Very worth doing, especially when you’re still learning.

The other super important bit of advice is to feed less than you think the fish need when you finally get them in the tank.  Overfeeding is the number one mistake people make, whether new or experienced.

[ARMYVET]

On 9/28/2021 at 6:11 PM, Odd Duck said:

The other super important bit of advice is to feed less than you think the fish need when you finally get them in the tank.  Overfeeding is the number one mistake people make, whether new or experienced.

Agree agree agree…in fact @Odd Duck is going to lend you his eyeball measuring stick so you don’t over feed😜

[MatticusRexxor]

On 9/28/2021 at 3:01 PM, ARMYVET said:

I would go with the largest tank that I could accommodate. The reason is simple...in 10 min your going to wish you went bigger...I swear this is real!

Hehe, I'm sure!  I only hesitate because I'm working with a roughly 48"x24" space in the corner of my room.  A 29g comes in at 30" long, so not much leeway.

 

On 9/28/2021 at 3:02 PM, James Black said:

The USB nano air pumps are very quiet, the quitest in the market IMO. I would suggest to get two aquarium co-op spongefilter instead of the triple-flow corner filter. Just because it looks like your going to need filter floss, carbon or something in that filter which would add to the costs. Adding two sponge filters one at either side of the aquarium is a good idea.

Oh, I'm aware that I'd need filter floss and/or a sponge, but both of those are relatively cheap.  I was leaning towards a box filter as a primary because you get the same aeration benefits of a sponge filter while also being able to customize.  Plus it seems like less hassle than needing to bag up a sponge every time you take it out for cleaning.  But I'm open to suggestions!

I just don't want to deal with HOB filters after the bio-wheel one I had in college kept dying on me and emptied my wallet with cartridges.

As far as centerpiece fish, wouldn't Danios harass a Betta, and would Corys work with Apistogrammas?  Wouldn't the apisto bully the Corys?

[Odd Duck]

On 9/28/2021 at 5:33 PM, MatticusRexxor said:

Hehe, I'm sure!  I only hesitate because I'm working with a roughly 48"x24" space in the corner of my room.  A 29g comes in at 30" long, so not much leeway.

 

Oh, I'm aware that I'd need filter floss and/or a sponge, but both of those are relatively cheap.  I was leaning towards a box filter as a primary because you get the same aeration benefits of a sponge filter while also being able to customize.  Plus it seems like less hassle than needing to bag up a sponge every time you take it out for cleaning.  But I'm open to suggestions!

I just don't want to deal with HOB filters after the bio-wheel one I had in college kept dying on me and emptied my wallet with cartridges.

As far as centerpiece fish, wouldn't Danios harass a Betta, and would Corys work with Apistogrammas?  Wouldn't the apisto bully the Corys?

I don’t bag them.  I lift very gently until near the surface, then slide a plastic dish under them (disposable, reusable type container), then lift.  I don’t clean mine often, only when flow slows down.

[MatticusRexxor]

I'm probably going to start ordering equipment this weekend, though it will be a while before I get everything together.  What size of sponge filter would be best for a 29 or 20 gallon tank as a secondary filter?  The internal box filter will be the primary, with the sponge as backup and to go into a quarantine tank as needed.

[Odd Duck]

I would use at least an ACO medium (or maybe 2).  Large would be even better but those boys are chonks and take up more width.  I was today years old (or was it last night?) when I learned that you could attach and stack the ACO sponge filters.  So 2 sponges worth in the same floor space!  Keep the spare parts and at least one extra Ziss Never Clog (rarely clog) airstone, airline, and valves always on hand and you could convert back to two separate, seasoned filters in minutes.

[MatticusRexxor]

On 10/2/2021 at 4:08 PM, Odd Duck said:

I would use at least an ACO medium (or maybe 2).  Large would be even better but those boys are chonks and take up more width.  I was today years old (or was it last night?) when I learned that you could attach and stack the ACO sponge filters.  So 2 sponges worth in the same floor space!  Keep the spare parts and at least one extra Ziss Never Clog (rarely clog) airstone, airline, and valves always on hand and you could convert back to two separate, seasoned filters in minutes.

So that would be what?  Ordering 1 large and 2 medium, then switching the 2 medium sponges on the large base/uplift tube?  Or just the 2 mediums and stacking the tubes?

 

I'm still leaning towards two USB Nano air pumps for my air supply.  I know I'll need check valves, but would it be more efficient to also have the two plugged into a gang valve?  Or is that just adding complexity that doesn't need to be there?

 

I don't know exactly how hard my water is (haven't gotten test strips yet) but I know that it's hard, and we're on a well.  Would I still need water conditioner?  Should I think about investing in a bunch of distilled water just in case?

[Odd Duck]

On 10/2/2021 at 6:18 PM, MatticusRexxor said:

Or just the 2 mediums and stacking the tubes?

With my new found stacking knowledge, I would order 2 mediums and stack for a 29 G unless you want it to be an easier transition to another tank, or if you do a 20 long.  They’re too tall to stack in a 20 long and I cut the tube in half for my shorter tanks if they have substrate and put 1/2 inside and 1/2 on top or just leave it off.  For a 20 high it will work fine with standard assembly.

On 10/2/2021 at 6:18 PM, MatticusRexxor said:

I don't know exactly how hard my water is (haven't gotten test strips yet) but I know that it's hard, and we're on a well.  Would I still need water conditioner?  Should I think about investing in a bunch of distilled water just in case?

You’ll need a water test and you might even need a series of tests.  You should insist on getting current test results when you move into a house that’s on a well.  It should be extensive and include all aquarium parameters plus more, especially a coliformes test (that looks for fecal contamination, usually from nearby farms but it can be from improper drain/leach fields too close to the groundwater).  I’m sure others can chime in with more info that live in houses with wells.

[Odd Duck]

On 10/2/2021 at 6:18 PM, MatticusRexxor said:

I'm still leaning towards two USB Nano air pumps for my air supply.  I know I'll need check valves, but would it be more efficient to also have the two plugged into a gang valve?  Or is that just adding complexity that doesn't need to be there?

Those USB nano pumps are super quiet, but I don’t know how many air stones they will run.  I have them available as a quick back up for a malfunctioning air pump (plan D?), but haven’t used them so far, other than to check their function.

[Torrey]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:18 PM, MatticusRexxor said:

So that would be what?  Ordering 1 large and 2 medium, then switching the 2 medium sponges on the large base/uplift tube?  Or just the 2 mediums and stacking the tubes?

 

I'm still leaning towards two USB Nano air pumps for my air supply.  I know I'll need check valves, but would it be more efficient to also have the two plugged into a gang valve?  Or is that just adding complexity that doesn't need to be there?

 

I don't know exactly how hard my water is (haven't gotten test strips yet) but I know that it's hard, and we're on a well.  Would I still need water conditioner?  Should I think about investing in a bunch of distilled water just in case?

When you moved in, there should have been a well-water report (except in Montana and W. Virginia, where no inspection is really required and Darwin is strongly embraced.... except on Sundays or in science class) that gave you TDS, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, state dependent for chemical contaminants of your groundwater, salmonella, e. coli, and up to 20 other bacteria (state dependent), as well as individual minerals ppm.

I tried getting a hold of my stepmom for a link to the complete list by state, but I don't think my folx currently have their RV somewhere with reception. 

Don't be scared of hardwater, most fish need minerals and almost all plants need minerals. It can take a little practice to tweak the few individual components that might be lacking (I have lived in multiple places and never had *balanced* hard water🤷‍♂️), and takes about 3 generations to acclimate fish.

Caveat is blackwater species may acclimate, but eggs generally won't be viable / won't hatch, and some shrimp will require adding RO to get inside acceptable parameters to avoid molting issues. 

Welcome back to the hobby!

[If you have your heart set on blackwater species, either invest in a phytoremediation pond/tank to consume the minerals before you add to the species tank, or invest heavily in inline filtration.

[MatticusRexxor]

Any report about our well water is over thirty years old, at this point.  I moved back home several years ago to help take care of my mom when she was sick.

[Torrey]

On 10/2/2021 at 8:54 PM, MatticusRexxor said:

Any report about our well water is over thirty years old, at this point.  I moved back home several years ago to help take care of my mom when she was sick.

I hope your mom is doing well, I can hard relate (we were taking care of my MIL)

I am not affiliated with any water testing places anymore, after my stepmom was forced into early retirement. However, I know of a few fishkeepers who have recommended this company. 

I've never used it, so no personal experience. Just secondhand reviews. 

https://mytapscore.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjwhuCKBhADEiwA1HegOVMGjtAkXC4GrW02Bi9qrBgM1HIrNc77ZONi1_Y0Z7_seQ2rdmXYBxoC2JoQAvD_BwE

 

[MatticusRexxor]

She passed this March, after a ten year battle with pulmonary fibrosis.  But thank you for the sentiments.

[lefty o]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:54 PM, MatticusRexxor said:

Any report about our well water is over thirty years old, at this point.  I moved back home several years ago to help take care of my mom when she was sick.

depending where you are, you are usually fairly safe with well water. you still want to test what comes out of the tap for ammonia, and all the other standard stuff that comes on test strips or in a kit. you shouldnt have any chlorine or chloramine to worry about at least.

[Torrey]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:18 PM, MatticusRexxor said:

She passed this March, after a ten year battle with pulmonary fibrosis.  But thank you for the sentiments.

I am so sorry, may her memory bring you joy.

My MIL passed in May, no matter how prepared we are, it's still a loss.

[Odd Duck]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:18 PM, MatticusRexxor said:

She passed this March, after a ten year battle with pulmonary fibrosis.  But thank you for the sentiments.

So sorry for your loss.

[MatticusRexxor]

According to Tetra test strips my water parameters are:

Nitrate: ~80
Nitrite: 0

Total hardness (GH): 300

Chlorine:0

KH: 300

pH: 8.4

Ammonia: 0

Edited October 3, 2021 by MatticusRexxor

[Torrey]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:03 PM, MatticusRexxor said:

According to Tetra test strips my water parameters are:

Nitrate: ~80
Nitrite: 0

Total hardness (GH): 300

Chlorine:0

KH: 300

pH: 8.4

Ammonia: 0

Plants are going to love your water!!!!

With nitrates coming out of the well at 80 ppm, I wonder what is decomposing 🤔

Your fish will appreciate it if you have a lot of plants to lower your nitrates.

If you want a pond, you can have gorgeous water hyacinth in that well water.

[MatticusRexxor]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:11 PM, Torrey said:

Plants are going to love your water!!!!

With nitrates coming out of the well at 80 ppm, I wonder what is decomposing 🤔

Your fish will appreciate it if you have a lot of plants to lower your nitrates.

If you want a pond, you can have gorgeous water hyacinth in that well water.

Could be anything, really.  This is a fairly rural area, so who knows what’s buried down there.

Good to know that plants will enjoy it, though.  I was hoping to do a planted set up anyway.  I do wonder if this is going to limit my stocking options, though.  Cory cats, Zebra Danios and the like can handle it, right?

[Torrey]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:20 PM, MatticusRexxor said:

Could be anything, really.  This is a fairly rural area, so who knows what’s buried down there.

Good to know that plants will enjoy it, though.  I was hoping to do a planted set up anyway.  I do wonder if this is going to limit my stocking options, though.  Cory cats, Zebra Danios and the like can handle it, right?

My experience has been that any fish can be acclimated to just about anything....

 

That being said, there are caveats:

1. Like humans, stressed fish are more likely to get sick

2. Fish are more likely to survive to reproduce if you only have one stressor.

3. Remember it only took 11 generations to make the Hapsburg jaw, a thing

4. Wild fish that come from highly variable environments are hardier

 

So what does all of that mean?

Guppies, mollies, platies, and limia come from waters that naturally range from fresh to strongly brackish, and from the low 60°'s and deluges of fresh water during wet season, to highs of 85° and elevated salinity in dry seasons.... not every member of the species, but enough members to remind us that they are resilient fish....

 

Yet in the aquarium hobby they have been bred in sterile environments, with few to no fluctuations, and are now much more beautiful than their wild cousins... but at what cost?

I personally either buy local from breeders with similar water parameters as mine, or I set up a tank to match the source parameters and take 3 generations to acclimate fully to my water.

When I take fish to my lfs, I take a month acclimating my fry to the lfs temps and water parameters (they have slightly different source water). That extra work on my part means they have never had any of my fish die in their tanks, and have very few die in the 7 day warranty period with the people who purchase my fish from them.

The only fish I have not been able to "breed to" my liquid rock, have been neons, cardinals, and discus. I have had to utilize RO plus peat moss, plus coco mats, plus phytoremediation tanks, to get water soft enough and acidic enough for their eggs to hatch viably. I'm not young enough to jump through those hoops anymore. 😅

[MatticusRexxor]

Started assembling my equipment this weekend.  Here is what I went with so far:

Aqueon 29 Gallon tank

Aqueon hinged glass tank lid

Aqueon LED Optibright+ light

Imagitarium 29 gallon tank stand

Lee's TripleFlow Corner Filter (small)

Aqueon Quietflow 40 air pump

Aquarium Co-Op Medium Sponge Filter x2

Ziss Never Clog Airstone x 2

Aquarium Co-Op check valve x2

Aquarium Co-Op airline tubing (25 ft)

 

I'm still going to need a heater, a thermometer, a background, substrate, decor and plants.  I'm not sure if I need water conditioner if I'm on a well.  What size heater am I going to need?

ETA: Is there any harm in doubling up on check valves, since the Aqueon pump comes with two already installed?

Edited October 5, 2021 by MatticusRexxor