What is this biofilm and what can I do to fix or can I?

[samuraikitty7]

It's been a long time since I kept fish, and I've been learning a LOT on here and youtube.  I had never even heard of shrimp keeping at all.  My first foray with cherry shrimp was a disaster because I put them in a brand new tank.  I have one survivor in my 10 gallon betta tank (yes he just ignores them.  I have ghost shrimp in there, too).

So I figured I start again with new substrate (CaribSea Eco Complete), live plants including java fern and some java moss, then some sort of sword made to look like a palm tree (see image), and boiled spiderwood.  I did not know that I had to turn on the filter to complete the cycle that I understand much better now than a month ago.  So it sat like that in room temp for a couple weeks with the LED lights on.  I saw some white film on the water surface and when I started removing water it STUNK like sewage, omg....So I took it down to the substrate, took a turkey baster to remove any gunk, removed the spider wood and plastic rock formation.  I did NOT remove the plants or substrate.  Filled it back up and turned on the little filter, and it's done it again in about a week with white and orange film that smells.

I read that white biofilm is okay, and I've had some in my and my mom's betta tanks after introducing spiderwood.  But what the heck?  Do I have to rinse everything?  Start over?  Put a bacteria medicine in?  The substrate is really expensive and like a lot of beginners I've spent too much already getting excited.  Oh, the tank is an Imaginitarium 5.2 gallon from Petco.

Help!  And thank you in advance.

[Colu]

You might need more surface agitation that looks the water start to go stagnant what filter are you using have you got an air stone in the tank  

[samuraikitty7]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:56 PM, Colu said:

You might need more surface agitation that looks the water start to go stagnant what filter are you using have you got an air stone in the tank  

It's just the little filter that came with it, low flow.  The tank is designed for everything to be inside, no HOB option really, but I could add an air stone for sure.  I'm mostly worried if this is something that would harm any fish or shrimp that was put in it.

[Colu]

What I would do is increase surface agitation  by adding an airstone and remove as of the surface flim as you can then I would leave it  for a week and see if it comes back 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Colu

[Odd Duck]

On 9/27/2021 at 8:03 PM, samuraikitty7 said:

It's just the little filter that came with it, low flow.  The tank is designed for everything to be inside, no HOB option really, but I could add an air stone for sure.  I'm mostly worried if this is something that would harm any fish or shrimp that was put in it.

You definitely can’t put anything alive in there with a surface film like that.  If it was my tank I’d do a 100% water change and make sure to remove all the biofilm you can, especially that surface film.  Then I’d get an air pump to run a nano or small size ACO sponge filter.  The nano should be big enough, but it wouldn’t hurt to have a bit more filtration since the tank is struggling.  That will add biofiltration and break up the surface film.

[samuraikitty7]

On 9/27/2021 at 6:27 PM, Odd Duck said:

You definitely can’t put anything alive in there with a surface film like that.  If it was my tank I’d do a 100% water change and make sure to remove all the biofilm you can, especially that surface film.  Then I’d get an air pump to run a nano or small size ACO sponge filter.  The nano should be big enough, but it wouldn’t hurt to have a bit more filtration since the tank is struggling.  That will add biofiltration and break up the surface film.

I totally agree about not putting anything in there!!!  I did do the water change except didn't take the plants out or substrate.  So it was still there I guess.  What a smell!  The tank comes with a nano filter with carbon cartridge.  The whole tank is designed to be all inside but I could cut the top if necessary.  I want this to be a shrimp tank, ghosts if nothing else.  Or another betta.

What about the plants and substrate?  The one plant was a bit spendy and the substrate is a gravel but not the usual stuff you see.  I'm absolutely new to planted aquariums.  Like I said in op it's a bit spendy for someone on a tight budget, so I would love to not have to toss it.  A thorough clean and an antibacterial of some sort?  IDK.  Would love to salvage the plant and substrate but if that's the way it is, it is, I guess.  Substrate:  https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/eco-complete-planted-black-aquarium-substrate

Pics are of the aquarium from Amazon site and and the other is my own (sideways), with a shrimp filter wrapped around it made out of cutting a carbon sponge to fit and rubber banding it.

Thanks to both of you for responding!  Anything other than the plastic salvageable?

Edited September 28, 2021 by samuraikitty7

[Odd Duck]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:41 PM, samuraikitty7 said:

Anything other than the plastic salvageable?

I think it’s all salvageable but it’s going to take some time and some frequent, large water changes for a while.  If you can do at least twice weekly (daily would be better) water changes of at least 50% or more until no more surface film is visible, then you’re winning.  Then you can start to spread out the frequency and gradually reduce the volume of water changes.

Getting some surface agitation and additional biofiltration with an ACO nano (or small) sponge filter should do wonders for your tank.  I also wouldn’t wrap anything around the filter until you have it fully cycled and are ready to add shrimp.  Wrapping it in a thin material or floss type wrap like you have, will help prevent shrimplets from being pulled into the filter.  In the mean time, it might be slowing the flow and right now you need all the flow you can get.

You can do this, but I think it’s much harder to start with a small tank.  It’s so much easier for them to get out of balance.  You just need to find the balance.  Until then, the solution to pollution is dilution!  Water changes (and water movement).

 

[Torrey]

On 9/27/2021 at 8:41 PM, samuraikitty7 said:

I totally agree about not putting anything in there!!!  I did do the water change except didn't take the plants out or substrate.  So it was still there I guess.  What a smell!  The tank comes with a nano filter with carbon cartridge.  The whole tank is designed to be all inside but I could cut the top if necessary.  I want this to be a shrimp tank, ghosts if nothing else.  Or another betta.

What about the plants and substrate?  The one plant was a bit spendy and the substrate is a gravel but not the usual stuff you see.  I'm absolutely new to planted aquariums.  Like I said in op it's a bit spendy for someone on a tight budget, so I would love to not have to toss it.  A thorough clean and an antibacterial of some sort?  IDK.  Would love to salvage the plant and substrate but if that's the way it is, it is, I guess.  Substrate:  https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/eco-complete-planted-black-aquarium-substrate

Pics are of the aquarium from Amazon site and and the other is my own (sideways), with a shrimp filter wrapped around it made out of cutting a carbon sponge to fit and rubber banding it.

Thanks to both of you for responding!  Anything other than the plastic salvageable?

I have the older model of this, there are a few tweaks that make the filter more efficient. 

You are correct, the biofilm is courtesy of the spiderwood. Did you boil it before putting it in the aquarium? (I may have a slightly less intensive work solution)

[samuraikitty7]

On 9/27/2021 at 10:27 PM, Torrey said:

I have the older model of this, there are a few tweaks that make the filter more efficient. 

You are correct, the biofilm is courtesy of the spiderwood. Did you boil it before putting it in the aquarium? (I may have a slightly less intensive work solution)

This spider wood was boiled for an hour and then sunk for a few days.  Weird, I never saw any white film off of it like the Zoo Med spider wood I got and didn't boil, just shrunk.  That stuff I put in my 10 gallon and my mom's 5.2 gallon (just like this one) is perfectly white and doesn't smell.  I've heard the white stuff off the wood isn't harmful but it doesn't stink like sewage like this tank does (plus it's a bit orange where my Zoo Med's biofilm are pure white).  Hmmmmmmm....

[Torrey]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:52 PM, samuraikitty7 said:

This spider wood was boiled for an hour and then sunk for a few days.  Weird, I never saw any white film off of it like the Zoo Med spider wood I got and didn't boil, just shrunk.  That stuff I put in my 10 gallon and my mom's 5.2 gallon (just like this one) is perfectly white and doesn't smell.  I've heard the white stuff off the wood isn't harmful but it doesn't stink like sewage like this tank does (plus it's a bit orange where my Zoo Med's biofilm are pure white).  Hmmmmmmm....

The orange + the sewage smell makes me think rot / sap decomp.... shrinking when boiled / sunk makes me think grapewood....

Glad you took the wood out when you did, it was about to get worse smelling. I believe SerpaDesign has a video of a similar experience. 

Massive water changes don't seem to make a difference, in my experience with the stinky orange slime. Two options: use a lot of Fritz beneficial bacteria, or SeaChem bacteria, or cheat and buy the Tetra Turtle Sludge bottle. I honestly don't know what the difference is, I can just say that the bb in the Turtle Sludge stopped the orange slime stuff from coming back. 

Tank will absolutely need an airstone. Remove the carbon filter and replace with a piece of filter sponge / filter foam cut to fit. Place another piece of the foam in between the filter and the side of the aquarium. Until your water smells clean, you will want to replace one piece of foam one week, and the other the next week.

To get the slime off the surface, place paper towels gently on the surface and carefully "wrap" the film into the paper towels, and throw away. 

Then wipe the inside of the aquarium clean with paper towels and toss. Wipe any of the hardscape down. 

Try to remove as little water as possible, because new water is going to keep feeding the orange slime.

Turn aeration up to max as soon as you have wiped everything down, and then double dose the Turtle Sludge Destroyer (or quadruple dose with beneficial bacteria for the aquarium).

Repeat each day, until the smell is gone and no orange growth comes back. I shook up the turtle Sludge and poured it directly onto the inside of the tank walls/sides which seemed to halt new growth. 

Combination of intense aeration and beneficial bacteria/Turtle Sludge Destroyer plus improving my filter made the difference. 

I hope it works for you. 

PS: after that foul learning experience, I started soaking wood in water and pouring beneficial bacteria directly onto wood before putting it in a tank.

 

That smell is more foul than a turkey egg exploding

[samuraikitty7]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:16 PM, Torrey said:

The orange + the sewage smell makes me think rot / sap decomp.... shrinking when boiled / sunk makes me think grapewood....

Glad you took the wood out when you did, it was about to get worse smelling. I believe SerpaDesign has a video of a similar experience. 

Massive water changes don't seem to make a difference, in my experience with the stinky orange slime. Two options: use a lot of Fritz beneficial bacteria, or SeaChem bacteria, or cheat and buy the Tetra Turtle Sludge bottle. I honestly don't know what the difference is, I can just say that the bb in the Turtle Sludge stopped the orange slime stuff from coming back. 

Tank will absolutely need an airstone. Remove the carbon filter and replace with a piece of filter sponge / filter foam cut to fit. Place another piece of the foam in between the filter and the side of the aquarium. Until your water smells clean, you will want to replace one piece of foam one week, and the other the next week.

To get the slime off the surface, place paper towels gently on the surface and carefully "wrap" the film into the paper towels, and throw away. 

Then wipe the inside of the aquarium clean with paper towels and toss. Wipe any of the hardscape down. 

Try to remove as little water as possible, because new water is going to keep feeding the orange slime.

Turn aeration up to max as soon as you have wiped everything down, and then double dose the Turtle Sludge Destroyer (or quadruple dose with beneficial bacteria for the aquarium).

Repeat each day, until the smell is gone and no orange growth comes back. I shook up the turtle Sludge and poured it directly onto the inside of the tank walls/sides which seemed to halt new growth. 

Combination of intense aeration and beneficial bacteria/Turtle Sludge Destroyer plus improving my filter made the difference. 

I hope it works for you. 

PS: after that foul learning experience, I started soaking wood in water and pouring beneficial bacteria directly onto wood before putting it in a tank.

 

That smell is more foul than a turkey egg exploding

Wow...not an easy solution, but a solution.  Yeah, that smell is nasty!

You think it was from the wood?  I didn't see any film on it, mostly on the surface.  Would my java fern be able to be moved to another tank if rinsed really well?  I have no idea what the "palm tree" is made out of...it was something in the Petco tanks that I thought was cool.  If I decide to bail on this tank instead of doing all of that.  I can, but it will be difficult because of where it is located (long story).  I'll do some thinking and I'll look up the turtle sludge.

Thanks so much!  I thought about putting a little sponge in there instead of the charcoal cartridge.  Sounds like that's a for sure, probably for my mom's betta tank, too (it is the same kind of aquarium).

[Shane L.]

I'm like you, been out of aquariums for a while but recently started back up with a 3gallon small tank and I think I have the exact same filter as you - as well as the exact same problem. I can't really comment on saving plants, substrate, etc., but I can tell you my experience with spiderwood and how I solved it. I placed a newly purchased spiderwood in bucket of water for a few days and everything seemed fine so I put it in the tank without boiling it (only water/scrubbing it) Within a day the water was tan from tanins. A day or two after that the sides of the tank were slimy and the top of the water was turning into a sludge for the tanins and white film, just like in your pictures. So I move the fish, did a complete breakdown cleaning everything with just water, and set up everything back up but the spiderwood (no live plants at that time). At that time I bought a cheap Walmart 12 qt. stock pot to boil the wood in (didn’t use my good ones since I heard it ruins the stainless steel pans). I boiled it for 3 or 4 hours. Tested it by soaking in a bucket for 2 days and it still made the water tan and started forming the white slime again. Tried it again the next few days with the same results. Was at the point of just throwing it away when I read someone (possibly on this forum) saying it’s not how long you boil it, but how many times. He said boil it for 10 to 15 minutes, dump out the water, then boil it again, over and over until it stops leaching the brown. So I did. It took me nearly 2 full days of doing this and countless 10 to 15 minute boilings, but it finally stopped making the water brown/tea color. At that point I tested it in a bucket for several days and the water finally stayed clean, and it didn’t even form any white film on the tree or the top or sides of the bucket. So I put it in my tank and everything has been good so far (been there 2 or 3 weeks so far. The key was to boil over and over in smaller time quantities rather than hours at a time. Not sure if it will work your your wood, but you may want to give it a try. Attached is a picture of my wood after 2 or 3 weeks in the tank (FYI, the wood did change to a much darker color after boiling but I liked the darker color better anyway). Hope this helps.

[Odd Duck]

On 9/28/2021 at 8:15 PM, Shane L. said:

I'm like you, been out of aquariums for a while but recently started back up with a 3gallon small tank and I think I have the exact same filter as you - as well as the exact same problem. I can't really comment on saving plants, substrate, etc., but I can tell you my experience with spiderwood and how I solved it. I placed a newly purchased spiderwood in bucket of water for a few days and everything seemed fine so I put it in the tank without boiling it (only water/scrubbing it) Within a day the water was tan from tanins. A day or two after that the sides of the tank were slimy and the top of the water was turning into a sludge for the tanins and white film, just like in your pictures. So I move the fish, did a complete breakdown cleaning everything with just water, and set up everything back up but the spiderwood (no live plants at that time). At that time I bought a cheap Walmart 12 qt. stock pot to boil the wood in (didn’t use my good ones since I heard it ruins the stainless steel pans). I boiled it for 3 or 4 hours. Tested it by soaking in a bucket for 2 days and it still made the water tan and started forming the white slime again. Tried it again the next few days with the same results. Was at the point of just throwing it away when I read someone (possibly on this forum) saying it’s not how long you boil it, but how many times. He said boil it for 10 to 15 minutes, dump out the water, then boil it again, over and over until it stops leaching the brown. So I did. It took me nearly 2 full days of doing this and countless 10 to 15 minute boilings, but it finally stopped making the water brown/tea color. At that point I tested it in a bucket for several days and the water finally stayed clean, and it didn’t even form any white film on the tree or the top or sides of the bucket. So I put it in my tank and everything has been good so far (been there 2 or 3 weeks so far. The key was to boil over and over in smaller time quantities rather than hours at a time. Not sure if it will work your your wood, but you may want to give it a try. Attached is a picture of my wood after 2 or 3 weeks in the tank (FYI, the wood did change to a much darker color after boiling but I liked the darker color better anyway). Hope this helps.

Look at you!  Brand new to the forum and already giving out excellent advice from experience.  Yay!

[Shane L.]

On 9/28/2021 at 9:19 PM, Odd Duck said:

Look at you!  Brand new to the forum and already giving out excellent advice from experience.  Yay!

Us nerms gotta stick together!

[Odd Duck]

On 9/28/2021 at 8:25 PM, Shane L. said:

Us nerms gotta stick together!

Absolutely!  I wish other forums were all as nice as this one!

[Torrey]

On 9/28/2021 at 9:10 AM, samuraikitty7 said:

Would my java fern be able to be moved to another tank if rinsed really well?

Java fern will probably bounce back and grow with the treatment of the tank. If you want to move it after treating the tank, it will definitely be okay. 

If you want to ditch, I would cut back except for the newest growth, leave it in a bucket of water overnight with beneficial bacteria and an air stone, and see if it still smells like sewage in the morning. 

The beneficial bacteria outcompete the anaerobic bacteria responsible for the sewage stink and orange slime. Just make sure water is well aerated. 

[samuraikitty7]

On 9/28/2021 at 6:15 PM, Shane L. said:

I'm like you, been out of aquariums for a while but recently started back up with a 3gallon small tank and I think I have the exact same filter as you - as well as the exact same problem. I can't really comment on saving plants, substrate, etc., but I can tell you my experience with spiderwood and how I solved it. I placed a newly purchased spiderwood in bucket of water for a few days and everything seemed fine so I put it in the tank without boiling it (only water/scrubbing it) Within a day the water was tan from tanins. A day or two after that the sides of the tank were slimy and the top of the water was turning into a sludge for the tanins and white film, just like in your pictures. So I move the fish, did a complete breakdown cleaning everything with just water, and set up everything back up but the spiderwood (no live plants at that time). At that time I bought a cheap Walmart 12 qt. stock pot to boil the wood in (didn’t use my good ones since I heard it ruins the stainless steel pans). I boiled it for 3 or 4 hours. Tested it by soaking in a bucket for 2 days and it still made the water tan and started forming the white slime again. Tried it again the next few days with the same results. Was at the point of just throwing it away when I read someone (possibly on this forum) saying it’s not how long you boil it, but how many times. He said boil it for 10 to 15 minutes, dump out the water, then boil it again, over and over until it stops leaching the brown. So I did. It took me nearly 2 full days of doing this and countless 10 to 15 minute boilings, but it finally stopped making the water brown/tea color. At that point I tested it in a bucket for several days and the water finally stayed clean, and it didn’t even form any white film on the tree or the top or sides of the bucket. So I put it in my tank and everything has been good so far (been there 2 or 3 weeks so far. The key was to boil over and over in smaller time quantities rather than hours at a time. Not sure if it will work your your wood, but you may want to give it a try. Attached is a picture of my wood after 2 or 3 weeks in the tank (FYI, the wood did change to a much darker color after boiling but I liked the darker color better anyway). Hope this helps.

I'm getting the white film on spiderwood in my other tanks, but only on the wood, and they weren't boiled.  A turkey baster seems to do the trick and from what I've read is not harmful.  The spiderwood I put in this 5.2 gallon was from a different place and was boiled for an hour and then soaked for a few days, and I didn't see ANY white film on it.  Just on the "ceiling" water surface.  I do know that they will leach tannins into the water and turn it brown, but I'm seriously thinking since this tank was planted, had a touch of flourish put in, and let sit with no filtration that I'm dealing with some sort of bacteria, or mold that was created by the plants decomposition, turning it into something like swamp water....

[ARMYVET]

On 9/28/2021 at 9:30 PM, Odd Duck said:

Absolutely!  I wish other forums were all as nice as this one!

Why do we need the rest when we currently have the best right here?  When Im not in my fish room I am here with you all....My extended family!

[samuraikitty7]

On 9/28/2021 at 8:23 PM, Torrey said:

Java fern will probably bounce back and grow with the treatment of the tank. If you want to move it after treating the tank, it will definitely be okay. 

If you want to ditch, I would cut back except for the newest growth, leave it in a bucket of water overnight with beneficial bacteria and an air stone, and see if it still smells like sewage in the morning. 

The beneficial bacteria outcompete the anaerobic bacteria responsible for the sewage stink and orange slime. Just make sure water is well aerated. 

Thank you!  I get paid in a couple days so I will get an air stone/pump and sludge destroyer and see if I can save this tank!

 

Thanks everyone. 🤩