laritheloud Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 So this one endler isn’t looking too good. He’s sluggish and hanging around the top with his mouth wide open (????). No signs of fungus or bacteria, parameters of the tank are ph 8.0, amm 0, nitrite 0, nitrate maybe 5. It’s super stable and full of shrimp. Temp is set to 78. The endlers have been through general cure and levamisole (complete several rounds) and no changes have been made to the tank in months. I have no idea what this could possibly be. I also don’t know how old the fish was when we got him so there’s that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 With the symptoms you describe it could be bacterial gill disease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 On 9/26/2021 at 6:33 PM, Colu said: With the symptoms you describe it could be bacterial gill disease What do you recommend? I have medicated feed with Kanaplex and medicated feed with Oxytetracycline. I need something shrimp-safe. My new hospital tank is mid-cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 (edited) I would treat with kanaplex it shouldn't harm your shrimp when used in medicated food Edited September 26, 2021 by Colu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 (edited) @Colu Today is fasting day so I'm actually not sure if he's eating. I can start a course tomorrow for the entire tank... or would you recommend waiting-and-seeing/euthanizing? There's 13 endlers in the tank, all male, and the others are behaving normally. EDIT: His gills appear fine and the weirdest thing is that his mouth looks 'stuck' open? It's not gasping. It's literally just sitting open. Edited September 26, 2021 by laritheloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 I would start treating as soon as possible as for euthanizeing him I would only consider that if you think he's suffering and is not going to recover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 Update: He's not eating. Would treating the water kill my snails and shrimp, @Colu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 From what I have read it not recommended to add directly to a tank with shrimp @laritheloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 (edited) Darn it. I could try to change the nitrite-spiked water in my cycling hospital tank. Would I have to treat all of the fish? Edited September 26, 2021 by laritheloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 If you can I Qarantine and treat him on his own you can use prime with kanaplex to detoxify any nitrites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 @Colu I water changed until all the parameters were straight zero, moved him to quarantine, and dosed the tank with Kanaplex. I can keep a close eye on him and he can rest now. I doubt he'll make a dent in the parameters with him being so darn small, but I'll watch them closely anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 So this is incredibly hard to see but he looks worse today, like there’s a growth exploding out of his mouth (not cottony). He’s definitely not eating. I’m not sure if this is something that’ll get fixed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) The growth from his mouth stopping him from eating I think is chances of recovery are silm at this point I think you have to consider euthanizeing him clove oil is the most humane way Edited September 27, 2021 by Colu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 On 9/27/2021 at 9:40 AM, Colu said: The growth from his mouth stopping him from eating I think is chances of recovery are silm at this point I think you have to consider euthanizeing him clove oil is the most humane way That's what I'm thinking, too. I wish there were better answers for this. I googled lockjaw in guppies and found a lot of discussion about it happening to their fish, but most of the time, it either resolved itself on its own or it didn't and the fish died quickly. Thanks for your help. I'll make sure he goes peacefully. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshStover Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 I got a batch of endlers several years back and I had this issue but only with the males. Their mouths opened and never shut. Couldn’t eat so they ended up in the turtle tank. It came out of nowhere and seems very similar to what you’re dealing with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 On 9/27/2021 at 10:01 AM, JoshStover said: I got a batch of endlers several years back and I had this issue but only with the males. Their mouths opened and never shut. Couldn’t eat so they ended up in the turtle tank. It came out of nowhere and seems very similar to what you’re dealing with. I'm seeing that it's an issue that can happen sometimes with guppies, and no one seems to know where it comes from or if there's any treatment. Most seem to agree that there isn't one, and it will fix itself quickly or it won't and they'll inevitably die. I figure since Endlers are kind of the same species, it's the same deal. I'm looking at the remaining endlers closely and they look fine for now. I'd always planned to keep this a bachelor endler tank with invertebrates and let them live out their lives happily for as long as that'll be, and once they're gone I'd try something else. Thanks for your insight! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon p Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 How old is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 @Brandon p no clue. I bought him via a random scoop of male endlers off Aquabid. He was already a full grown adult when I received him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon p Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) Sometimes they don’t live long and others up to 2-3 years. I have seen this in my older guppies. I normally remove them and I have stoped treated unless there is something that has been different. If after a few days it appear worse I wil humanely euthanized even thought I hate to do it and don’t do it often. Beat wishes Edited September 27, 2021 by Brandon p 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) On 9/27/2021 at 6:22 PM, Brandon p said: Sometimes they don’t live long and others up to 2-3 years. I have seen this in my older guppies. I normally remove them and I have stoped treated unless there is something that has been different. If after a few days it appear worse I wil humanely euthanized even thought I hate to do it and don’t do it often. Beat wishes Thank you for letting me know. I decided to euthanize the fish, since he was not showing any signs of improvement and I did not want him to slowly starve or suffocate to death. I'm feeling awful about it but my understanding is there's no real treatment for this. It's definitely possible he was already older when I got him. I'll be prepared the next time I see this and separate them. Edited September 27, 2021 by laritheloud 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon p Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Sorry for the lost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted September 28, 2021 Author Share Posted September 28, 2021 On 9/27/2021 at 6:35 PM, Brandon p said: Sorry for the lost Thank you. I'm really sad about it and just wish there could have been more to do for him. Poor little guy 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshStover Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Sorry you had to put the little guy down. People tell me I’m crazy for getting so attached to my fish but they just don’t understand what it’s like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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