Tank for 7 year old's birthday - take 2

[Oreganoodle]

I kept a tank in highschool/college for about 6 years; and so when my daughter got into learning about fish at school I thought a fish tank would be a great birthday present. But then - as some of you already know - I let the petstore and said 7 year old talk me into fully stocking the tank - and everything died. I'm committed to going slower this time - but I'd like your feedback/advice if you are willing to part with it.  With the first tank I had several neon tetras, zebra danios, and a bristlenose pleco that was quite young). The tetras and pleco died within 24 hours. The Danios slowly petered off over 7 days.  Testing showed some ammonia the first day; so I did a water change. After that the water got cloudy and then I saw nitrites and then nitrates so I thought things were going to recover until the Danios died too. I tested 2x a day with api strips and ammonia stayed 0.

Details:

34 gallon tank; Fluval power filter; Rainbow Gravel substrate; plastic plants - don't judge those last two too harshly, she is 7 and I let her get what she really wanted.

Desired fish: she wants something very colorful but because of the neon tetras dying last time she doesn't want those. I also tried to talk her into a Beta - but she doesn't like the idea of only one.  She is pretty keen on the idea of guppies and shrimp. I went down the pictures/list of best beginner fish from the forum and nothing struck her fancy from that.

My plan this time: buy a better testing kit. Do a fishless cycle with Dr. Tims bacteria + ammonia - wait until I can add ammonia and watch it cycle and only then add fish.  I plan on getting them from the nearest local store (which is about 40 min away); rather than going to the box store that is 10 min away.

Question: Given that I don't have a quarantine tank and these will be the first fish going in the tank - what if anything should I do to preventative treat without wrecking the good bacteria?

Question: Any other advice/things you think I should reconsider?

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

[Guppysnail]

I’m speaking from experience…..not guppies for a child. Guppies bought online or in store are not extremely hardy and do not last long. I always hoped for fry before they pass. Once they are 2-3 generations in your care they are dynamite and hardy but getting there is a ton of heartache. @GameCzar just went through establishing a colony. Males do not always play well together in a male only tank but occasionally it works.  Females are most always are pregnant when purchased and once pregnant will drop fry every month without exposure to another male overpopulating quickly and exponentially.  Endlers in my experience are sturdier when purchased but they do still multiply but not as quickly so make sure an lfs that will take them is available.  Celestial pearl danios I have much experience in and used to breed. They consume eggs so do not overpopulate and are very robust average 3-5 year lifespan. Are super active clowns and a breeze to care for not picky about parameters. My pictures do not do them justice so the last picture I’m including is a google pic. I’m not trying to be a killjoy I know the tears I shed as an adult trying to establish my guppy colony and the work that goes into rehoming guppy fry. I would not want a child to be discouraged in this manner.

[H.K.Luterman]

I do think you should try to use some live plants, as they will vastly help in the stability of the tank. Easy plants like hornwort can provide great natural filtration and it just floats mid/top water column, so there's still plenty of room for colorful, plastic plants.

A good preventive and safe treatment when you add fish into the tank is the Aquarium Co-Op med trio (I can't find the page on the site, but I believe it's Erythromycin, Ich-x and General Cure). Do the first dose of all the meds together and marinate for a week. However, a quarantine tank for future use (like when you add more fish after the first group is established) is recommended; I use a 20 gal plastic tote that I measured off gallons on the side, with a small sponge filter I keep cycled in one of my main tanks. When not in use I break it all down and store it away.

[GameCzar]

I would agree with @Guppysnail about guppies, it is tough trying to get them going.

As controversial as it is for someone to recommend, Glo-fish are bred from super hardy fish and offer insane color varieties.   It might be just the thing to capture a child's imagination. 

[Oreganoodle]

On 9/24/2021 at 6:45 PM, Guppysnail said:

I would not want a child to be discouraged in this manner.

Thank you for your thoughts. To be fair to her - she actually handled it much much better than I thought she would.  She was really interested in the science of it - and wanted to see the dead fish. She even - for some disturbing reason - wondered what they would look like frozen. Kids are weird.  She loves the idea of the fish having babies - and I warned her that they would eat them and she was fine with that.  I will try to talk her into your celestial pearl danios though - thank you for the suggestion.

[Guppysnail]

On 9/24/2021 at 7:13 PM, Oreganoodle said:

Thank you for your thoughts. To be fair to her - she actually handled it much much better than I thought she would.  She was really interested in the science of it - and wanted to see the dead fish. She even - for some disturbing reason - wondered what they would look like frozen. Kids are weird.  She loves the idea of the fish having babies - and I warned her that they would eat them and she was fine with that.  I will try to talk her into your celestial pearl danios though - thank you for the suggestion.

If she is that open and curios guppies may be ok. 1-6 months is average for bought that I had. I did have one boy go almost 3 years. You can see signs of birthing ahead of time and can watch babies emerge from the birth canal. Very fascinating.  I don’t have experience with children and the ones I did know were fragile p.  Your daughter sounds delightful and with that acceptance and curiosity she will be very successful in life. Congratulations 

[Patrick_G]

We started our daughter out with a Oranda Goldfish. She loved having a wet pet she could interact with. Her second fish was a betta that she loved. Now she’s wild about my Sarasa Comet. She doesn’t understand the little schooling fish that I like. She wants to bond with something. In a 34 I’d recommend a single big centerpiece like an Electric Blue Acara or Angelfish. You could then add Corydoras, Otocinclus catfish and some dither fish. 
On the other hand my kid also loves baby fish so livebearers are a great option! 

[Kathy F]

As for guppies, my experience has been slightly different.   I had mass die off of guppies that were shipped but the ones I bought locally were fairly robust.   I'm not entirely sure if difference was due to water differences or the stress of shipping that lead to the deaths.   Either way IME the best chance of success is to buy from a LFS that quarantines before selling the fish that way the LFS takes the loss and sells the healthy fish that are already aclimated to your local water.   

I have done an all male guppy tank and it was beautiful and everyone did great (after I started sourcing local guppies SIP the guppies that were shipped in).  I also have the male guppies in now with females and again everyone is doing great but male guppies are sexually aggressive so if you do a mix of male and female I would do 1 male for every 2-3 females to spread that male attention out over several females.   Babies will survive in the adult tank if you give them enough hiding places which is what I do.  The slow babies become food which is a good thing because they replicate like rabbits so you definitely want some of them to be picked off to keep the population down.  I actually prefer the all male tank set up because it is less hassle and you don't have to deal with babies but both set ups worked for me.    Also for new arrivals make sure you check for diseases and if anything dies automatic water change, dead bodies foul water incredibly quick.   Good luck.  

I don't keep shrimp, I have considered them in the past but after looking up care requirements it was definitely more then I wanted to do.   Up to you if you want to take that on but I will not and have run into a similar issue with my kiddo.    We have a glofish tank for my son but if I let him get what he really wanted it would have been a saltwater clownfish tank.   Mommy was definitely not signing up for the whole RO/DI, salt mixing maintenance that goes into maintaining a clownfish tank.   Sorry kiddo, but you will have to visit Nemo and Marlin at the pet store instead.   

[Stef]

I was “loaned” lyretail mollies to do fish in cycling but loved them too much to return to the lfs. They’re like two Labrador retrievers at meal time. I pour their food in the cap of the container and then drop it in the from the cap so I don’t accidentally dump too much food. They chase the red food cap back forth like a frisbee. Pretty entertaining for all ages. 
 

They’re both female and I’m told they can hold on to sperm for a long time (from males in the lfs tank they were in with). No live fry yet for me, unless they had a snack 😲

 

 

[Ken]

Get a handful of male (only) endlers. They are pretty, active, hardy and won't make any work.

[CalmedByFish]

I'm having great success with endlers, but they don't eat their fry, so that could become a minor problem. 

I recently got dwarf red platies. They make fry as fast as guppies, but are hardier, brighter colored, and eat the fry. Might be worth a few minutes to research bright colors of platies. 

[Oreganoodle]

On 9/24/2021 at 6:50 PM, H.K.Luterman said:

I use a 20 gal plastic tote that I measured off gallons on the side, with a small sponge filter I keep cycled in one of my main tanks. When not in use I break it all down and store it away.

Is the plastic tote clear to let light in or are they in there for such a short duration that you don't worry about it?  Do you cycle the quarantine tank before adding fish to it - or no because it's already got the good bacteria from the sponge filter?

 

[Oreganoodle]

I tried the pearl danios and endlers, but she was disappointed at the fin length. I'll try lyretail tomorrow. I had mollies in high school and loved them. What do folks think about dwarf neon rainbow fish?

[H.K.Luterman]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:22 PM, Oreganoodle said:

Is the plastic tote clear to let light in or are they in there for such a short duration that you don't worry about it?  Do you cycle the quarantine tank before adding fish to it - or no because it's already got the good bacteria from the sponge filter?

 

Here's a pic! I don't cycle the bin itself, I just keep those filter sponges in my 75 gallon when not in use (tucked behind decor/plants) to keep them cycled. So when I need my quarantine, I set it up, fill it with water, and then transfer the sponges from my 75 into the QT; you "instant cycle" that way. When I'm done using it, I empty it all out, and usually do a weak bleach soak on everything if there was an actual illness, including the sponges. Once the sponges are disinfected and rinsed thoroughly, I put them back in my 75 to cycle again (takes about 2 weeks for them to be "safe" to use again if I need the QT). 

[Guppysnail]

Zebra danios (also called zebra fish) are about the sturdiest fish I have ever kept. They use them for scientific studies they are so durable forgiving and easy to care for. They are mega high energy playful fun very inexpensive and so much fun to watch. Readily available most places also with a longfin variety. They also come in longfin variety though I have never owned the longfin ones. These are not my pictures my zebra danio days were pre iCloud but I found them on the internet for you. 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Guppysnail

[Tanked]

No judgement here.  I rescued an abandoned little mermaid tank some time ago.  The mermaid and gravel were the first to go.

I would give the zebras another shot.  I also lost all but one of mine the first week. The problem was the fish, not the aquarium. The LFS refunded the money and fish purchased at a much later date were fine.  Ember, Bloodfin or others tetras might be a good choice

[Guppysnail]

Sorry I missed you already tried zebras. 

[Oreganoodle]

On 9/25/2021 at 11:26 AM, Guppysnail said:

Sorry I missed you already tried zebras. 

No worries - she actually liked them a lot. I did too. They would swarm the food hole in the lid whenever I'd walk up to the tank.  The reason I was avoiding them this go around is that I read they are fin nippers, and if she wants to replace the neon tetras with a longer fin fish I didn't think they would work together.   She does like the lyretail molly in place of the guppy; so I might head in that direction.  I know for sure that she'd like the rainbow fish - but I never see them on beginner lists so I haven't shown them to her.

[Hobbit]

I believe @Irene has kept small rainbow fish, and she has kids too! She may be able to advise. Perhaps they’re not on beginner lists because they’re more expensive and not as easy to find?

Honestly your daughter sounds amazing. (Coming from someone who sliced up her dead neon tetra to look at it under a microscope 😄) I think a lot of kids are able to handle more than we give them credit for. If you still have those frozen fish, bury them under some garden plants for great fertilizer! I think that’s a Native American tradition, if what I learned in elementary school is correct.

[Torrey]

On 9/24/2021 at 5:13 PM, Oreganoodle said:

Thank you for your thoughts. To be fair to her - she actually handled it much much better than I thought she would.  She was really interested in the science of it - and wanted to see the dead fish. She even - for some disturbing reason - wondered what they would look like frozen. Kids are weird.  She loves the idea of the fish having babies - and I warned her that they would eat them and she was fine with that.  I will try to talk her into your celestial pearl danios though - thank you for the suggestion.

My obsession with the hobby started as a young Bird (my nickname) when my mum and dad set up a tank with guppies and swordtail platys to help me understand my mum was going to have a baby.

 

I was 4.

If she handled the death that well, and with those questions, I would encourage adding a decent binocular microscope to your purchase. Allow her to stain slides of tank water, and I will try to find the book I had for my kids to learn how to perform necropsies on the fish.

**FULL DISCLOSURE**

Encouraging kids to fully explore their science side, especially facilitating their interests in research, may lead to their determination to go to med school or vet school. 

 

Start saving money, *now*

😅

[Hobbit]

How many babies did you think your mom was going to have 😂

[Intuos]

Depending on your water parameters I have always loved chilli rasbora and found them fairly easy to keep. 

 

[Torrey]

On 9/25/2021 at 2:10 PM, Hobbit said:

How many babies did you think your mom was going to have 😂

I figured she was going to have a dozen, eat 10, and bring 2 home🤣

[Oreganoodle]

On 9/25/2021 at 7:39 PM, Torrey said:

I figured she was going to have a dozen, eat 10, and bring 2 home

I'm dying to know what actually happened 🙃

[Torrey]

On 9/25/2021 at 7:40 PM, Oreganoodle said:

I'm dying to know what actually happened 🙃

My mum brought home one baby sister, and 18 months later brought home another baby sister, but sent the first baby sister to stay with grandparents for a while, because my dad was never home to help😅

I was a very confused kid for a while. 

My parents left for the hospital the second time with a toddler in tow, and came home with another newborn that was back in diapers. 

Absolutely *nothing* like the really cool fish in the 10 gallon aquarium 🤣

They didn't even have cool colors like the fish.🤷‍♂️