Shell Dwellers in Barebottom tank?

[Tihshho]

I've kept Neolamprologus Brevis in the past, but I'm considering trying some Lamprologus Ocellatus or Neolamprologus Similis since one of my LFS just sent out their in bound stock list with them. Since I have my tanks setup for simplicity for breeding they are bare bottom, but wasn't sure if I could get away with shells and zero substrate. I know these species dig to establish territories, but I wasn't sure if littering the bottom with shells would make up for it. Has anyone tried keeping any type of shellies with just shells and no substrate? I have a feeling I know the answer, but I figured I'd ask to gauge different experiences. 

[Zenzo]

In my experience with multiple shell dweller tanks (I currently have 4 shell dweller tanks with two species, but had up to six at one point), the tanks with substrate/more substrate did better than without or thin substrate. It may be due to the territory piece that you mentioned. I have also noticed that they will "customize" some shells by burying some, partially burying some, etc. 

If you want to keep the substrate cleaner, maybe add a couple of MTS to the tank (just keep them in check so the population doesn't get out of control). 

Will they survive and breed in the bare bottom? Yes. Will it be a more enjoyable experience for you (and them if they could speak to us) with substrate added? Yes. 

I love shell dwellers. I hope you end up getting some!

[Tihshho]

On 9/14/2021 at 12:29 PM, Zenzo said:

In my experience with multiple shell dweller tanks (I currently have 4 shell dweller tanks with two species, but had up to six at one point), the tanks with substrate/more substrate did better than without or thin substrate. It may be due to the territory piece that you mentioned. I have also noticed that they will "customize" some shells by burying some, partially burying some, etc. 

If you want to keep the substrate cleaner, maybe add a couple of MTS to the tank (just keep them in check so the population doesn't get out of control). 

Will they survive and breed in the bare bottom? Yes. Will it be a more enjoyable experience for you (and them if they could speak to us) with substrate added? Yes. 

I love shell dwellers. I hope you end up getting some!

I was hoping you'd be one of the people to chime in since I know your collection on them is vast. I figured that the substrate was almost non negotiable and semi mandatory for success. There are a few different/smaller African's I've always wanted to try, but lot's of their success stems from giant rock piles, available substrate, and niche hiding places (shells being a great example or Calvus caves) that always had me take a step back. 

In the case of the Shellies, did you notice they hit a saturation point in population and then breeding freezes? I know Brichardi's and Mbuna are one of the few that produce non stop, but it seems African's are far from constantly pumping out offspring unlike South American cichlids. 

[Zenzo]

On 9/14/2021 at 9:35 AM, Tihshho said:

I was hoping you'd be one of the people to chime in since I know your collection on them is vast. I figured that the substrate was almost non negotiable and semi mandatory for success. There are a few different/smaller African's I've always wanted to try, but lot's of their success stems from giant rock piles, available substrate, and niche hiding places (shells being a great example or Calvus caves) that always had me take a step back. 

In the case of the Shellies, did you notice they hit a saturation point in population and then breeding freezes? I know Brichardi's and Mbuna are one of the few that produce non stop, but it seems African's are far from constantly pumping out offspring unlike South American cichlids. 

With my multis, they seem to continually breed (I can almost always find new fry in those tanks). With the Ocellatus, it seems to be less so, and the colony tends to cap itself. This may be due to aggression, etc, as they are more fierce than the multis. I love the golds though...so beautiful.

[Tihshho]

I need to find out which Ocellatus they got. At one point they had a 'blue phase' which I never had seen before. 

[StevesFishTanks]

I would suggest pvc elbows with end caps if you are trying to setup a bare bottom tank for breeding only and dont care about the looks.

The shells its difficult to remove the fry/mother

Deep sand bed with lots of shells if you want a great tank to enjoy. They will still breed but will be harder to remove fry if trying to mass produce them.

[Tihshho]

On 9/14/2021 at 3:43 PM, s1_ said:

I would suggest pvc elbows with end caps if you are trying to setup a bare bottom tank for breeding only and dont care about the looks.

The shells its difficult to remove the fry/mother

Deep sand bed with lots of shells if you want a great tank to enjoy. They will still breed but will be harder to remove fry if trying to mass produce them.

This is all good points. The concern I have is something Zenzo touched on about them moving substrate into the shells. If they don't have the environment to support their needs, I'm not sure it's worth stressing out a species just to get fry out of them. It's one thing having a breeder setup that's a bit small, but compensates with high water changes, it's another to strip them from their natural behavior and that's the part that has me on the fence.

[CalmedByFish]

At first glance, I thought the title was "Shell Dwellers in Bathroom?" 😂

If anybody ever needs the answer: Yes. 

[StevesFishTanks]

I agree. When I kept multifasciatus I tried to setup the tank to resemble their natural habitat. I had mine in a 40B 3" or 4" of pool filter sand, several xl escargot shells. Breeding will occur and if the colony gets too big you can just net out sub adults or larger if/when its necessary.

[mynameisnobody]

IME, all the fun is in watching them bulldoze the substrate into their desired little world. It’s pretty fascinating, and I’d find it less than ideal to have them in a bare bottom tank. I’m sure it can be done, but it removes a cool part of their appeal. 

[ARMYVET]

On 9/19/2021 at 8:19 AM, Manny said:

IME, all the fun is in watching them bulldoze the substrate into their desired little world. It’s pretty fascinating, and I’d find it less than ideal to have them in a bare bottom tank. I’m sure it can be done, but it removes a cool part of their appeal. 

COULD NOT AGREE MORE!!

 

Give them a completely level bed of sand and some shells scatterad about....come back 24 hours later and you will be amazed at what they accomplished.....TRUYLY FASINATING!