FLUVAL FRESH AND PLANT 3.0 LED LIGHT FIXTURE 14523 selection based upon depth to substrate and aquarium dimensions, low light plants

[Jay99]

Can anyone assist in providing the math / science behind the number of FLUVAL FRESH AND PLANT 3.0 LED LIGHT FIXTURE 14523 lights that are required based upon depth to substrate and aquarium dimensions?

I did review the Aquarium Co-op Light Guide and noted the recommended number of FLUVAL FRESH AND PLANT 3.0 LED LIGHT FIXTURE 14523 lights that are based upon aquarium gallonage.

 I am new to aquarium plants and want to understand the math / science behind Aquarium Co-op recommendations.

 Please note: Even though I am requesting calculations / recommendations based upon depth to substrate and aquarium dimensions, I plan to have vast majority of plants on Mopani driftwood and Dragon rock. The substrates are CaribSea Super Naturals Zen Garden Aquarium Substrate (relatively smooth inert river gravel) that will be  basically free of plants. I want maximum clear bottom to provide swimming and viewing area for my preferred fish, Corydoras species. Several Amazon Swords will be in background.

 GIVENS:

 FLUVAL FRESH AND PLANT 3.0 LED LIGHT FIXTURE 14523, Fluval data:

            SKU: 14523

            UPC: 015561145237

            Watts: 59

            Size Range: 48 - 60" (122 - 153 cm)

            LED Number: 336

            Lumens: 4250 lumens

            Color Temperature: 6500 K

 

Aquarium 1:

            Length: 84 inches

            Width: 30 inches

            Height: 30 inches

            Top: Full glass top, approximately 1/8 inch thick glass, three glass access lids

            Gallonage, Trade: 327 U.S. gallons

 

Aquarium 2:

            Length: 48 inches

            Width: 17-3/4 inches

            Height: 20-1/2 inches

            Top: Full glass top, approximately 1/8 inch thick glass, three glass access lids

            Gallonage, Trade: 75 U.S. gallons

 

Planned plants (all in Aquarium Co-op “low light” category)

            "Windelov" Java Fern

            Java Fern

            Java Moss

            Anubias Barteri

            Cryptocoryne Wendtii Green

            Anubias Golden

            Cryptocoryne Tropica

            Amazon Sword

 

Thank you,

Jay

 

[Mmiller2001]

They have 71 PAR at 18inches. That's max output. Add lids, extra water depth and possibly tannins to PAR reduction.

Bottom line, they are not RGB lights and over priced. There are definitely better lights at a similar price range. I would buy Finnex ALC lights before ever buying Fluval lights. 

My Journal, around page 3 has a comparison of Fluval vs another brand. Night and day difference.

For the plants you listed, why buy an expensive light? Almost any light will grow those low light plants. A 3.0 is over kill.

[Patrick_G]

@Jay99, I believe @Cory and crew tested these with a quality par meter so there is empirical data behind the recommendations listed on the website. 

[Jay99]

Hi Patrick_G,

Yes, I am sure Cory has detailed backup data to support him standing behind the FLUVAL FRESH AND PLANT 3.0 LED LIGHT FIXTURE 14523 data. In one of his excellent and always entertaining videos, I believe he states it is the best light ever.

That data is basically what what I am interested in. Hopefully, Cory's test parameters will give me insight into how to evaluate light performance.  I may look into purchasing equipment to measure PAR readings.

My goal is to be able to measure or calculate PAR reading after light passes through 1/8 inch glass top and 28 - 30 inches of water.

Do you have any recommendation on decent PAR meter? I will go back to video and see if meter is mentioned or a decent image is available.

Quick check I see price starting point of approximately $200.00.

Thank you for your reply,

Jay

[Patrick_G]

Gothcha, I like to have the numbers too! A person on another forum tested the light at 23”  including a glass lid. He maxed out at about 50ish par. In this video I think the light is being tested on a 125 gallon and it registered 27 par at substrate level. Skip to 4:00 for the par reading. 

 

[Jay99]

Thanks Patrick_G,

Very informative video. Exactly what I was looking for.

Cory used a laboratory-grade Apogee Instruments Quantum Flux meter to capture 27 PAR reading at substrate level (approximately 22 - 24 inches) .

[anewbie]

On 9/5/2021 at 11:31 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

They have 71 PAR at 18inches. That's max output. Add lids, extra water depth and possibly tannins to PAR reduction.

Bottom line, they are not RGB lights and over priced. There are definitely better lights at a similar price range. I would buy Finnex ALC lights before ever buying Fluval lights. 

My Journal, around page 3 has a comparison of Fluval vs another brand. Night and day difference.

For the plants you listed, why buy an expensive light? Almost any light will grow those low light plants. A 3.0 is over kill.

Can you please explain how the finnex ALC is 'better' than the fluval. Certainly it is a better value if we consider pricing but with regards to par/lumens/tone can you expland on your claim of 'better'? 

 

My personal take is the fluval is a bit weak esp on deeper tanks (21/24 inch); but the tone range is actually quite pleasing and it is water proof with a 3 year warranty (if those things matter). For raw par the WRGB 2 is a better light as is the twinstar 9000. But in other areas those lights will take a hit; the wrgb 2 is hardly water proof and the twinstar is a pia to set up decent ramp up/down periods (unless you spend even more $$$ for additional module). In terms of visual performance the wrgb 2 is actually quite nice but in terms of photographic quality the fluval is stunning (if this comment doesn't make sense consider the range of colour led found on the fluval) though some of this comes down to actual setting as both lights are highly configurable. 

[Mmiller2001]

Fluval 3.0 48"- $219.99 (71 PAR@18inches) non RGB light-Has pinks?  No green?

Finnex ALC 48"-$124.55 (117 PAR@14inches) RGB light-True Red @660nm***

RGB true red>How does a light, at that price point, not have reds?

Then let's look at pricing when we need more than 1 light. 

Let's take my 75 gallon.

I needed 2 3.0's=$439.98 Here, I get a warranty and a "not that great APP".

2 Finnex ALC's  =$251.10 Here, I bought a true RGB light with true 660nm reds, no APP and shorter warranty

 

Now, let's look at lights that are superior to both the Fluval and Finnex. Just research why they are superior, It's obvious.

TwinStar S series-$229.00x2(24" length)=$458.00 

Chihiros WRG II 120-$349.50 

Why are we buying these expensive lights? To grow plants and visual appeal? Do I buy 2 Fluvals when I can buy 2 Twinstars for a few bucks more? Personally, I went Chihiros, why? I got and APP, true RGB, true reds and I only need to buy one with excellent PAR.

So here was 2xFluval 3.0's and then the Chihiros. Notice the yellow cast on the Fluval. That's what you get at that price point? That's unacceptable! 

 

From my direct observation, my plants grow better and are more "robust" since upgrading from Fluval. Could that also be a result of other variables, sure, but I've been pretty consistent recently.

Sorry, but fluval is way over priced.

                                

 

 

[anewbie]

On 9/6/2021 at 11:14 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

Fluval 3.0 48"- $219.99 (71 PAR@18inches) non RGB light-Has pinks?  No green?

Finnex ALC 48"-$124.55 (117 PAR@14inches) RGB light-True Red @660nm***

RGB true red>How does a light, at that price point, not have reds?

Then let's look at pricing when we need more than 1 light. 

Let's take my 75 gallon.

I needed 2 3.0's=$439.98 Here, I get a warranty and a "not that great APP".

2 Finnex ALC's  =$251.10 Here, I bought a true RGB light with true 660nm reds, no APP and shorter warranty

 

Now, let's look at lights that are superior to both the Fluval and Finnex. Just research why they are superior, It's obvious.

TwinStar S series-$229.00x2(24" length)=$458.00 

Chihiros WRG II 120-$349.50 

Why are we buying these expensive lights? To grow plants and visual appeal? Do I buy 2 Fluvals when I can buy 2 Twinstars for a few bucks more? Personally, I went Chihiros, why? I got and APP, true RGB, true reds and I only need to buy one with excellent PAR.

So here was 2xFluval 3.0's and then the Chihiros. Notice the yellow cast on the Fluval. That's what you get at that price point? That's unacceptable! 

 

From my direct observation, my plants grow better and are more "robust" since upgrading from Fluval. Could that also be a result of other variables, sure, but I've been pretty consistent recently.

Sorry, but fluval is way over priced.

                                

 

 

First your posted PAR values are very misleading since you chose to use different depths for the provided par. I'm not saying one is better than the other but in presenting numbers such as the one above you should make a fair comparison.

I have several wrgb; and they are ton brighter and also create a lot of glare; also I can never get the colour balance correct - here is a sample picture of my 40B. Of course it might be the setting - not sure of your setting - likewise for the yellow cast on the fluval might be your setting - i've included a picture of my 29 with the fluval - but before I do so I will note that the wrgb is very sensitive to water and moisture and it only takes a little for them to go wonky; the fluval can take a soaking. I've read a lot about the twinstar but for me the final insult was needing an additional module to have ramp up/down settings which was outrageous at that price point.

 

The 40B with wrgb2  glare and all (also what is your setting that gave a more neutral look):

 

29 with the fluval:

 

 

[Mmiller2001]

On 9/6/2021 at 11:08 AM, anewbie said:

First your posted PAR values are very misleading since you chose to use different depths for the provided par. I'm not saying one is better than the other but in presenting numbers such as the one above you should make a fair comparison.

I have several wrgb; and they are ton brighter and also create a lot of glare; also I can never get the colour balance correct - here is a sample picture of my 40B. Of course it might be the setting - not sure of your setting - likewise for the yellow cast on the fluval might be your setting - i've included a picture of my 29 with the fluval - but before I do so I will note that the wrgb is very sensitive to water and moisture and it only takes a little for them to go wonky; the fluval can take a soaking. I've read a lot about the twinstar but for me the final insult was needing an additional module to have ramp up/down settings which was outrageous at that price point.

 

The 40B with wrgb2  glare and all (also what is your setting that gave a more neutral look):

 

29 with the fluval:

 

 

Buy the hoods, they just slide right one, glare gone. Trust me, I've gone through as many settings as possible to remove the yellow tone. I see the same yellow tone in the bottom picture. It's a symptom on non RGB lights. Maybe my dry climate, but I don't have moisture problems and I'm not sure how anyone would without dropping the light into the water. PAR measure is an accepted value amongst top aquarists, it's a relevant value. 

That top tank pops, vivid and is beautiful. The bottom tank, although scaped nice, looks flat. Nothing on you, it's the light.

I agree on the Twinstar, but I would buy Twinstar over Fluval, knowing what I know now.

[anewbie]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:22 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Buy the hoods, they just slide right one, glare gone. Trust me, I've gone through as many settings as possible to remove the yellow tone. I see the same yellow tone in the bottom picture. It's a symptom on non RGB lights. Maybe my dry climate, but I don't have moisture problems and I'm not sure how anyone would without dropping the light into the water. PAR measure is an accepted value amongst top aquarists, it's a relevant value. 

That top tank pops, vivid and is beautiful. The bottom tank, although scaped nice, looks flat. Nothing on you, it's the light.

I agree on the Twinstar, but I would buy Twinstar over Fluval, knowing what I know now.

What is the setting on your wrgb2? Also my problem is not that you used par but you used par of different depths to compare the two lights. It isn't a fair comparison. One is quote at 14 inch the other at 18 inches. One would hope that at a shallower depth  a light has higher par; else it is seriously weaker.

[Mmiller2001]

On 9/6/2021 at 11:29 AM, anewbie said:

What is the setting on your wrgb2? Also my problem is not that you used par but you used par of different depths to compare the two lights. It isn't a fair comparison. One is quote at 14 inch the other at 18 inches. One would hope that at a shallower depth  a light has higher par; else it is seriously weaker.

Off the top of my head. 82R 74G 78B, something like that.

71PAR @ 18 inches, and 114PAR @14 inches, we can assume they are similar. No?

 

 

[anewbie]

On 9/6/2021 at 4:03 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Off the top of my head. 82R 74G 78B, something like that.

71PAR @ 18 inches, and 114PAR @14 inches, we can assume they are similar. No?

 

 

I suspect the 114par @ 14 is greater than 71 par @ 18 inch but less than 90 par. I forget the rate of drop off but as depth increase it is significant; after all 71 par @ 18inch is quite a bit less at 24 inch. Also for the measurement to be fair they should be taken by the same person on the same tank or at least same condition (i.e, top or no top et all)

[Jay99]

What is the PAR drop rate as depth increases? 

I ask because in discussions above, I see comments such as, "71 par @ 18inch is quite a bit less at 24 inch". These PAR numbers are higher that the 27 PAR mentioned in the Aquarium Co-op video.

 

Approximately 4:11 minutes into Cory's "MY NEW FAVORITE LIGHT! Fluval Plant Spectrum 3.0 LED Light Review" video, Cory mentions  PAR 27 reading.

Cory used a potentially laboratory-grade PAR meter, Apogee Instruments Quantum Flux, to capture 27 PAR reading at substrate level (approximately 18 - 20 inches [125 gallon tank]) .

As I am in process of setting up aquarium that is 30" deep overall, with approximately 28" to top of substrate, I am interested in PAR reading in the 26 - 28 inches depth range.  
 

The vast majority of planned plants are in the Aquarium Co-op “low light” category. With the exception of several Amazon Sword plants, most will be attached to Mopani driftwood and Dragon rock at varying depths.

In practice, estimate plants will be in the 15 - 28 inches depth range. Lighting positioned above glass top. 

PAR level in the 26 - 28 inches depth range will allow me to see in I have option to add moderate light rated plants. 

Side-bar: anewbie, you are spot on with statement indicating that PAR readings must be taken under controlled conditions. Even the quality of PAR meter utilized directly impacts readings.

Thanks to Patrick_G for providing "MY NEW FAVORITE LIGHT! Fluval Plant Spectrum 3.0 LED Light Review" video 

[anewbie]

I'm not sure there is a formulae as to rate of drop. 28 inch is deeper than most references. If you search around you can find measurements at 18  and sometime 24 inches for various lights but you will need something fairly strong to reach 28 inch. Some options include ai prime, wrgb2, twinstar 9000m, ai prime. I can't tell you how bright they will be at 28 inches but they will do better than fluval or similar. Then again remember that most leafy plants like swords and steam plants grow torwards the surface so if you can get some height into them they will get plenty of light. 

[Mmiller2001]

Might look at Kessel LEDs. I think they promote their penetration.

[Jay99]

Thank you all for the great input. 

Now I have many other lighting options to explore.

As anewbie stated "Then again remember that most leafy plants like swords and steam plants grow towards the surface so if you can get some height into them they will get plenty of light." with the exception of Amazon Swords, plants will all be on wood and rock.

I will start Amazon Swords in 20 inches deep aquarium and move to 30 inches deep aquarium once they start getting a decent height.

[Mmiller2001]

Here's my settings. I pushed to 85 and got green water. So settling here and baby steps back up.