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Thursday 9/2/2021

This will be my first experience with breeding an egg scattering fish. Only started researching them on 8/31/2021 Tuesday, very late night. Will be documenting all phases; research, testing, set up, parent selection, spawning, birth, fry care, grow out, and placement in show tank.

RESERCH

8/31 Read 2 different care guides after google search. Not an abundance of material on rummynose specifically. May need to find more info on egg scatters in general. Watched video by Teds fishroom, interesting video but it was all about a technique for a breeding tank set up where he removes bottom from 5G adds mesh and places inside a 10G, for now will not be using this method.

9/1 watched video from LRB aquatics showed how to make a mesh basket, for a breeder box. Fairly sure I will be using this technique, not exactly his set up but very similar. Also watched video by Marks Aquatics again very interesting video and will certainly be using a lot of tips from this.NEED TO REWATCH!! Started checklist4DD496F0-579F-43B7-9C65-AAD4D038E64A.png.0c645d30dad1dcabf0eedebc38b4a192.png74C290BE-7892-4FBD-AEFF-76333945D7D2.png.71095a1dc6654cfae5356b8b859f54c5.png

9/2 testing water seasoned tank as close to set up as possible; E6395053-78B1-4744-99DA-78764A68D76C.jpeg.455c5cfe26fb84915a1421ae7982566f.jpeghardness=300+ Buffer=220 PH= 8.1

spring water (out of bottle)4890B843-3E68-4482-B0CF-3F0FD1169BD5.jpeg.c5775df8a0f9f362b4c444b99a2424d8.jpeghardness =100 seems high, buffer=0-20 really low?, PH 6.4 verry nicce 

added air stone and heater to water will test again in 24 hours.

Edited by Atitagain
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On 9/3/2021 at 6:16 PM, FlyingFishKeeper said:

Love the project! Rummynose are one of my favourite fish, can't wait to see what happens

Mine too I used to be all about oscars then I took a break for about 5years. Got to breeding African cichlids, then seen a big school of rummynose ouuu weee. Sill have an AC tank as well as an Oscar but those rummys got me hooked on smaller breeds.

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9/3 tested water after aerating for 24 hours and heated tank to 85 (maybe uncalled for)06D64E2D-BD8B-4B74-870A-A720804CE46F.jpeg.896256d73221cc07ad57c677e0aeef75.jpeghardness came down 50ish =good

buffer raised a bit 40+=good

PH held 6.4

Have to say looking good so far. If all thing =or better after another 24hours will proceed with cycling 

started building spawning enclosure going to build a box from egg create dividers and mesh. Adding mesh to guarantee parents can’t escape. Create holes are 1/4ish but I think if startled may be able to squeeze through. Also if works well can use for many future projects. Using fishing line to through every create hole to attach mesh and will do the same to build box with zip ties( again longevity) F4395C57-CFC5-41D7-93DB-0B0FE6E2C9EC.jpeg.9ad63c964e0c8b95e46a80c3beb16659.jpeg1F435888-331F-415B-B0AA-6C7BCE223C69.jpeg.ec639cc531a9fb242a92aaad681de934.jpeg

also today started researching infusoria cultural maybe not as hard as I thought. Need to get some going to see if I have success and be ready only has a 3-5 day shelf life and takes 3-5 days to make.

collected material for spawning mop 

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9/4 been studying how to culture infusoria today watched Marks Aquatics video on subject seems doable will be starting that tomorrow. Hopefully Saturday 9/11 will be breeding day or sooner. Checked water parameters and everything is equal as last night. Will start cycling tomorrow.7D71E827-A4C8-4A73-B8DA-E955CEA51DC7.jpeg.e0038165f98ec37e17a89911a155fa08.jpegwill turn heat down for now and start watching the school and extra feedings.finishing up spawn enclosure taking a lot longer that expected. Is OCD a curse or a blessing? Have to be exact but will be built well I figured I’d be done in one night and now on 3rd day and will not get done tonight. Gonna stay up late get all creat covered in mesh and zip tie box. Have to sew box together tomorrow.

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If you want a simple infusoria trick and have a spare tank, just set some indian almond leaves, alder cones and some moss in there while you're getting everything going. Indian almond leaves and alder cones have natural antifungal properties and are good for fry. On top of that, as the botanicals breakdown they will provide food for infusoria. I've had great success with not having to create cultures from scratch by putting fry into a tank with moss, this is most likely due to the fact that cultures of it can be found living in and around the moss and when you bring it to a new tank with dried botanicals that are breaking down they will start to eat the decaying organics and start a population of their own in the tank.

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On 9/4/2021 at 10:12 PM, Tihshho said:

If you want a simple infusoria trick and have a spare tank, just set some indian almond leaves, alder cones and some moss in there while you're getting everything going. Indian almond leaves and alder cones have natural antifungal properties and are good for fry. On top of that, as the botanicals breakdown they will provide food for infusoria. I've had great success with not having to create cultures from scratch by putting fry into a tank with moss, this is most likely due to the fact that cultures of it can be found living in and around the moss and when you bring it to a new tank with dried botanicals that are breaking down they will start to eat the decaying organics and start a population of their own in the tank.

So no cultivating at all? In the tank I’m using for the breeding, set up the almond leaves, adler cones, and moss let sit for couple days and it will create infusoria ?

I have some almond leaves in other tanks already breaking down, should I use those as well as some new? Adler cones will be new I’ve just order themCCA89765-1553-40CC-AB7B-F2ADD6696DDD.png.4c365f265f15ee7db8d62bccc735c472.png

 

and I only have a couple small moss balls little bigger than golf balls. Enough?

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Cultivating is a good thing to practice as you might need them later.

In the method I talked about I let the tank cultivate it. Using used leaves isn't bad, but I'd definitely add some fresh ones. The little bit of moss (Java, Christmas, Flame, etc) should be fine. If the moss balls you're taling about are marimos they might work, but its not the type I've used for this.

While you're working on cultivating here are a few other things you probably should get going and keep around. Microworms and vinegar eels. You can find cultures for sale all over the place and once you get them going you're set. Vinegar eels are almost set and forget, microworms take a bit of work but are simple and take a culture and a box of instant mashed potatoes to feed them. Note, if you forget about the microworm culture it can turn into a stinky mess, but the minimal (weekly) work on them is worth it if you breed any egglayer that has small fry. From these cultures you'd start feeding infusoria, move to vinegar eels and then move to microworms. If you layer those on top of having the tools to culture brine you'll have all the food you need available to keep up with babies.

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@Tihshho wow what a rabbit hole. Learning about this is exciting, I sure appreciate all the help you have given me. When I set up my fish room I had already done a little breeding but nothing to brag about and all I wanted was to breed for fun and have display tanks. this to me is next level stuff I never thought I would get around too. But the more I learn the deeper I want to go.

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On 9/5/2021 at 12:23 PM, Guppysnail said:

As @Tihshhohas recommended tank infusoria use the water from your pleco tank you feed veggies to to start this. It already has infusoria a plenty. I’m not nermy enough to do jars of infusoria I just get moldy stinky rot every time 😟

If you're not keeping stinky jars full of magic food, you're only one foot into this hobby 🤣.

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9/5 more progress checked water parameters 65DB86F7-2AED-4CBA-BDA2-F3BC1C7F2001.jpeg.b656dd6516e901a45cc555a095e1da93.jpeghardness lowered to 40 =good

buffer stayed same = ok

PH lowered 6.2= good

added a rock little Java moss and 2 Marino moss ballsD64B10BD-337C-41C6-8B55-E5EA8069E309.jpeg.2f3e827da838b0251b3bafc28d880935.jpegC5684E73-20F9-4F0B-81EC-A659135CF3CB.jpeg.dc0e65bb13fb6c550a9b844863a03a06.jpegthinking of adding a few snails and 10cherry shrimp to feed for next couple of days but not sure if I’m just adding competition for food when babies come. Will research before adding, drip accumulating now. 

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0DF154F7-5E00-4447-8103-A5C3C3AC576A.jpeg

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@Guppysnail @Tihshho so just add some water from existing tank? To what I already have set up. Like a gallon? I have 10ish gallons in there. Trying not to affect hardness and PH while doing this. Maybe just a cup?

should I add snails and shrimp to feed for next few days?

also small steps I’ll get both feet in soon😳

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On 9/5/2021 at 1:45 PM, Atitagain said:

thinking of adding a few snails and 10cherry shrimp to feed for next couple of days but not sure if I’m just adding competition for food when babies come. Will research before adding, drip accumulating now. 

Snails have extremely poor digestion. Their waste is natural infusoria food. I kept mystery and bladder snails with my CPD fry when I was breeding and fed lots of veggies to avoid the need to make jars of infusoria and it worked well but mine was a tank that was around for quite awhile I don’t know this would be a good idea in a newer setup. 

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On 9/5/2021 at 1:50 PM, Atitagain said:

@Guppysnail @Tihshho so just add some water from existing tank? To what I already have set up. Like a gallon? I have 10ish gallons in there. Trying not to affect hardness and PH while doing this. Maybe just a cup?

should I add snails and shrimp to feed for next few days?

also small steps I’ll get both feet in soon😳

Use your pleco water. My CPD fry still survive in that tank and I don’t feed them. I think you seen my post where I also just hang lettuce to do in tank infusoria but again those are long running tanks I never tried in a new tank so it may cause ammonia spikes a cup or squeeze out the pleco sponge filter or media into it. 

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If you are planning on breeding Rummynose Tetras I recommend reading an article in the January/February 2021 Amazonas Magazine listed under "Notes from the Field," it is an article by Hans-Georg Evers titled "Rummynose Tetras - in a different Way." It describes how the process of getting them to spawn is much more about adding the right foods than water parameters and timing. It also describes the use of two catappa leaves fastened together by a stick so they float because in the wild Rummynose Tetras spawn at night, hiding their eggs on top of floating leaves to protect them from predators.  It is very informative and parallels what a hobbyist can do to what takes place at huge fish farms in Asia.

Edited by Jungle Fan
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On 9/5/2021 at 7:35 PM, Jungle Fan said:

If you are planning on breeding Rummynose Tetras I recommend reading an article in the January/February 2021 Amazonas Magazine listed under "Notes from the Field," it is an article by Hans-Georg Evers titled "Rummynose Tetras - in a different Way." It describes how the process of getting them to spawn is much more about adding the right foods than water parameters and timing. It also describes the use of two catappa leaves fastened together by a stick so they float because in the wild Rummynose Tetras spawn at night, hiding their eggs on top of floating leaves to protect them from predators.  It is very informative and parallels what a hobbyist can do to what takes place at huge fish farms in Asia.

Great info would love to check it out but unfortunately don’t have a subscription and my life is on a very tight budget right now. Definitely will check this out when I have the chance.

interesting too I was planning on floating or fasting to enclosure at water level a catappa leaf when Im breeding. I heard they like to spawn under broad leaf plants. And thought it would be a good way to mimic those conditions.

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9/5 another water test tonight all parameters same as earlier. Added 2 mystery snails, 10ish pond snails, and 10cherry shrimp. Tomorrow- Wednesday need to study and watch videos, watch water parameters closely, and prepare Thursday is breeding day. 
have a female picked out biggest and roundest in the school. Very healthy looking and a bright nose. 

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9/6 watched another video from LRB Aquatics, Marks Aquatics, and did some more goggle searching to reinforce. Gonna be adding methylene blue treatment to eggs before hatching(I think) doing research. Added alder cones to tank. And selected 2 pairs of potential parents and dripped acclimated over 5 hours to breeding tank.8A1E2E7F-64EA-4099-AC1D-30F7B65A2507.jpeg.24a879620347c6b4418f3fff34f9b967.jpegwill be feeding parents BBS and frozen bloodworms.

9/7 today need to research MB treatment H2O2 treatment.

Keeping lights off or at least very minimal. Start raising temp 1* per day till at 81* at 78* now, then day before breeding day. Raise temp every 8 hours or so to 85*. At mid morning feeding (on breeding day) turn full light for 5 minutesthen diffuse light for 3 minutes  before feeding till 5 minutes after. Then pull parents 6-8 hours later. Then find lots of eggs!

Edited by Atitagain
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