Seeding a new aquarium… do I understand correctly?

[Karen B.]

Greeting!

I am not sure I understand the whole « seeding a new aquarium » process…

I take the media of a filter, the dirtier, the better, and then squeeze it in a brand new aquarium? Won’t the water turn like completely brown and the substrate get all mucky? Or is that the goal? (And after some time gravel vacuum I suppose?)

How long after seeding an aquarium is it ready/considered cycled? There won’t be any ammonia but just beneficial bacteria from the filter? Won’t those die before ammonia appear?

I disinfected my aquarium, boiled the substrate, and I am adding the filter that used to run on my 20 gallons with its media.

I have this hospital tank unused where I used to dump my WC to cycle the filter. I have never cleaned it. Should I squeeze all it’s media in my new disinfected aquarium to speed the cycling process (the aquarium will house a betta)

Or should I squeeze the dirty media of the hospital aquarium in said aquarium and run the new filter I want to install on my 20 gallons to seed it instead so when I switch filter, there is less chance of crashing my cycle (I do have a medium sponge filter running in it too that will stay there)

And then I confuse all that with crisp, clean water. Does that include vacuuming the substrate? But then someone told me since I have corydoras, it’s important to leave some muck for them to search through.

And it’s all fine to seed filter and dirty them to make sure I have BB but at some point when I stop my 20 gallons filter to do a WC, when I start it back it pollutes the water with the muck accumulated (and that I can’t clean because 1 - I read you don’t WC and clean filters at the same time and 2 - I need it to be dirty to seed the 10 gallons I will transfer it too).

I feel stupid. Maybe it’s because english is not my main langage, but there seem to be so many contradictions, especially with must have muck… but crystal clear water is a must!

[Tihshho]

Basically the whole 'dirtying a new tank with old media' is the goal. You can squeeze it into the new tank or you can place it into your new filter. Some people swear by the squeeze method as it spreads the beneficial bacteria and mulm all over the tank as it gets into the water column, others get the same results by just running 'seasoned' media in a new filter. 

The seeding process doesn't instant cycle a tank, so lets get that out of the way. What it does do is provide the bacteria that normally populates during the scratch start cycling process. The way the population of bacteria is generated otherwise is either through the fishless cycle method or the old school cycle process starting with hardy fish (which isn't recommended.) The fishless cycle is where you use fish food, a 'piece of shrimp' or liquid ammonia and then you test the parameters regularly to monitor the process of ammonia going to nitrites and then to nitrates. The other method is using a hardy fish and just taking care of the tank while still testing, though this isn't recommended anymore. The process you skip by seeding is the whole generation of bacteria from scratch. You will still need to test using the seeding method. The perk of seeding is that it cuts the cycle times down drastically. Rather than a fishless cycle taking say 2 weeks (sometimes can be less if you're lucky) you might be able to get the cycle down to a week. In the case of people who breed fish in bare bottom tanks, like myself, having extra seasoned sponge filters means I always have a cycled tank. The difference here being that I don't have substrate that is extra surface area that needs bacteria for the nitrogen cycle. Technically, it's not fully cycled, but it's pretty darn close. Keep in mind though, if you have a spare sponge filter that's been in a 5 gallon tank and move it to a 20 gallon tank you're not going to have enough surface area of beneficial bacteria to filter the larger aquarium.

When you seed a tank with the squeeze method, you don't vacuum after. You let the mulm and waste settle in the tank and then you test to make sure the nitrogen cycle is complete. When you do this it's recommended you do something called 'ghost feeding.' This is when you put fish food in the tank as a source of ammonia for the bacteria to eat to continue the nitrogen cycle. Without the food, the tank will go stale and you'll have to start over. After that point you can gravel vac because the filter(s) on the tank should be able to hold the bioload and the biofilm of beneficial bacteria all over the tank won't be impacted.

I strongly recommend if you do this process that you do not use filter media from a hospital tank to start the cycle of another tank. The idea of a hospital tank is to segregate and quarantine sick or new fish away from a main display to keep out diseases, parasites, and pathogens from being introduced into your display tank. 

[lefty o]

perfectly crystal clear water is entirely for our viewing pleasure. seeding a tank is just simply kick starting the bacteria colony of a tank. it can come from a bottle, filter media from an established tank, or substrate/decorations/wood/plants out of an established aquarium. they all work. imo the biggest problem is people will seed their tank, then not feed it (the bacteria need something to eat), then wonder why their tank didnt "cycle" when they check it after a few days.

[Karen B.]

On 9/1/2021 at 11:23 PM, Tihshho said:

Basically the whole 'dirtying a new tank with old media' is the goal. You can squeeze it into the new tank or you can place it into your new filter. Some people swear by the squeeze method as it spreads the beneficial bacteria and mulm all over the tank as it gets into the water column, others get the same results by just running 'seasoned' media in a new filter. 

The seeding process doesn't instant cycle a tank, so lets get that out of the way. What it does do is provide the bacteria that normally populates during the scratch start cycling process. The way the population of bacteria is generated otherwise is either through the fishless cycle method or the old school cycle process starting with hardy fish (which isn't recommended.) The fishless cycle is where you use fish food, a 'piece of shrimp' or liquid ammonia and then you test the parameters regularly to monitor the process of ammonia going to nitrites and then to nitrates. The other method is using a hardy fish and just taking care of the tank while still testing, though this isn't recommended anymore. The process you skip by seeding is the whole generation of bacteria from scratch. You will still need to test using the seeding method. The perk of seeding is that it cuts the cycle times down drastically. Rather than a fishless cycle taking say 2 weeks (sometimes can be less if you're lucky) you might be able to get the cycle down to a week. In the case of people who breed fish in bare bottom tanks, like myself, having extra seasoned sponge filters means I always have a cycled tank. The difference here being that I don't have substrate that is extra surface area that needs bacteria for the nitrogen cycle. Technically, it's not fully cycled, but it's pretty darn close. Keep in mind though, if you have a spare sponge filter that's been in a 5 gallon tank and move it to a 20 gallon tank you're not going to have enough surface area of beneficial bacteria to filter the larger aquarium.

When you seed a tank with the squeeze method, you don't vacuum after. You let the mulm and waste settle in the tank and then you test to make sure the nitrogen cycle is complete. When you do this it's recommended you do something called 'ghost feeding.' This is when you put fish food in the tank as a source of ammonia for the bacteria to eat to continue the nitrogen cycle. Without the food, the tank will go stale and you'll have to start over. After that point you can gravel vac because the filter(s) on the tank should be able to hold the bioload and the biofilm of beneficial bacteria all over the tank won't be impacted.

I strongly recommend if you do this process that you do not use filter media from a hospital tank to start the cycle of another tank. The idea of a hospital tank is to segregate and quarantine sick or new fish away from a main display to keep out diseases, parasites, and pathogens from being introduced into your display tank. 

Thank you for your explanation! I will follow your instructions.  I was going to get my betta in few days but I can’t get myself to do a fish in cycle so I canceled the betta. 
As for the hospital tank, it has never been used previously (never had any fish in it), which is why I feel ok to use its media.

[Tihshho]

Happy to help! If you have not been ghost feeding the hospital tank, the tank is more than likely no longer cycled.

[Karen B.]

On 9/1/2021 at 11:41 PM, lefty o said:

perfectly crystal clear water is entirely for our viewing pleasure. seeding a tank is just simply kick starting the bacteria colony of a tank. it can come from a bottle, filter media from an established tank, or substrate/decorations/wood/plants out of an established aquarium. they all work. imo the biggest problem is people will seed their tank, then not feed it (the bacteria need something to eat), then wonder why their tank didnt "cycle" when they check it after a few days.

Thanks, I think it explains why my first tank took so long to cycle - I wasn’t feeding it!

[gardenman]

Good information from everyone. Just one more small note. Bioload makes a big difference. There was a post saying if you took a filter from a five gallon and moved it to a twenty gallon the tank wouldn't be cycled. Eh, yes and no. If the bioload was the same in the twenty as the five gallon you could argue the tank was as cycled as it had been. 

The secret to keeping fish is to keep healthy bacteria, but the bacterial populations are reflective of the food available to them. If you have one neon tetra in a 120 gallon tank, the tank may test as being cycled (no ammonia or nitrites and slowly but steadily rising nitrates) but if you then add a thousand more neon tetras, the tank will crash. Why? It was cycled for the bioload it was used to , but not the new bioload. The bacteria in the tank will grow rapidly under a new bioload but not fast enough to keep up with large, sudden changes in bioload. If you added one neon tetra a day for a thousand days, no problem. You could double the number of neons each week with no trouble. (Well, it might get tricky when you got to the bigger numbers, but in general it should work.) There needs to be a balnce between the bioload/food availabe for the bacteira, places for the bacteria to live, and the bioload.

Bare tanks are harder to cycle as there's less surface area for bacteria to inhabit. A tank with gravel, lots of plants and decorations, driftwood, stones, etc. is easier to cycle as there's lots of places for bacteria to live. And things like live plants tend to come with some bacteria already on/in them. Something as simple as sunlight hitting a bare tank can destroy enough of the bacteria living on the glass to crash a cycle in a bare tank. Sunlight and bacteria tend not to get along all that well. A more heavily decorated tank has more places for bacteria to hide out and survive whatever comes its way.

 

 

[Patrick_G]

If possible take some of the media from the old filter and put it in the new one. I’ve tried this method about four times and it works well, just don’t add all your fish at once.  I’ve yet to see any ammonia!  

[Tihshho]

On 9/2/2021 at 11:06 AM, gardenman said:

Good information from everyone. Just one more small note. Bioload makes a big difference. There was a post saying if you took a filter from a five gallon and moved it to a twenty gallon the tank wouldn't be cycled. Eh, yes and no. If the bioload was the same in the twenty as the five gallon you could argue the tank was as cycled as it had been. 

It depends on what bio load you're speaking of. If the bio load is exactly as you said in your example of one tetra, then you are 100% correct, but that's never the case. Unless you're 100% guaranteed to be feeding the same volume of food daily, there is no waste, there is no growth (meaning more food intake and waste output) on the fish, then you've got yourself a perfect lateral transition. In this hobby that's not possible as feeding isn't that precise and fish fluctuate on waste production and required food intake. A filter designed for a 5 gallon tank is designed to provide the surface area required to support the nitrogen cycle for a finite volume of water. When the water volume increases, the beneficial bacteria in that filter cannot keep up because there isn't enough housing for bacteria to handle the load. If you did a controlled experiment with no fish and just liquid ammonia you will see that if you start a cycle in a 5 with one filter and a 20 with the same sized filter the cycling process would finish faster in the 5 rather than the 20. The PPM of ammonia being used to start/feed the system would be fixed but the overall volume of ammonia being added to get to the same PPM is what changes. That's where it's apples to oranges, otherwise you would see a one size fits all filter and people wouldn't be buying larger filters.

[JettsPapa]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:24 AM, Patrick_G said:

If possible take some of the media from the old filter and put it in the new one. I’ve tried this method about four times and it works well, just don’t add all your fish at once.  I’ve yet to see any ammonia!  

 

I agree.  If you use filter media from a seasoned tank you can add fish right away without any problems.  I'm not saying fully stock it immediately, but you can certainly add some.  In effect you're transferred some of the "cycle" from the existing tank to the new one.

[Patrick_G]

On 9/2/2021 at 8:39 AM, JettsPapa said:

 

I agree.  If you use filter media from a seasoned tank you can add fish right away without any problems.  I'm not saying fully stock it immediately, but you can certainly add some.  In effect you're transferred some of the "cycle" from the existing tank to the new one.

My wife thinks it’s funny that I keep some extra sponge filters in my 75 gallon, but that way I’m  ready for an unexpected quarantine or sudden bought of MTS😀

[lefty o]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:24 AM, Patrick_G said:

If possible take some of the media from the old filter and put it in the new one. I’ve tried this method about four times and it works well, just don’t add all your fish at once.  I’ve yet to see any ammonia!  

great point on just dont add all the fish at one time. just about a guarantee'd way to have problems is to go from zero bio load, to fully stocked.

[Patrick_G]

On 9/2/2021 at 8:47 AM, lefty o said:

great point on just dont add all the fish at one time. just about a guarantee'd way to have problems is to go from zero bio load, to fully stocked.

An added benefit is you get to see the different behaviors as you slowly add fish. 

[Karen B.]

@gardenman @Tihshho @lefty o @Patrick_G @JettsPapa

Thank you so much everyone for your answers and explanations

The 10 gallons will only house a betta 🥰

[lefty o]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:56 AM, Karen B. said:

@gardenman @Tihshho @lefty o @Patrick_G @JettsPapa

Thank you so much everyone for your answers and explanations

The 10 gallons will only house a betta 🥰

in that case, you can add all the fish at one time!😎

[Nordlys Fish Room]

On 9/2/2021 at 7:45 AM, Patrick_G said:

My wife thinks it’s funny that I keep some extra sponge filters in my 75 gallon, but that way I’m  ready for an unexpected quarantine or sudden bought of MTS😀

Yep I keep an extra sponge filter running on my 40 gallon goodeid tank. If I set up a new tank or need a hospital tank, I just pull the filter out and use it (and replace it with a new filter for next time). In my opinion, it’s the easiest way to instantly cycle another tank and I’ve never run into ammonia issues that way.