Anyone bred L333s?

[Saltinthedesert]

 

Would love any input on breeding L333s that anyone here has. I have a group of 5 in my 75 with lots of caves and haven’t seen any breeding evidence. I’m contemplating isolating them but wanted input on anyone’s experience in general first. Thanks!

[StevesFishTanks]

Nice fish. Don't have experience with them but am following this thread.

[Tihshho]

Can you post more pictures of the types of caves you have? Some species prefer different shape caves over others. Also, how long have you had them, what are the tank parameters, and what are you feeding?

[Saltinthedesert]

On 9/1/2021 at 6:52 AM, Tihshho said:

Can you post more pictures of the types of caves you have? Some species prefer different shape caves over others. Also, how long have you had them, what are the tank parameters, and what are you feeding?

Had them for 6-12 months. 
Tank is heavily planted and super stable.

Temp is 78° - 80°. 
pH is around 7.2 (my tap water in Woodinville comes out around 7.8, which I offset with RO from my LFS.)
GH is 7-8, KH is 3-4.

Using an Fx4 canister filter. Moderate water flow with the heads high in the water column.

there are 7 caves total. 5 pictured below. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Saltinthedesert
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[gardenman]

You obviously also have a bristlenose pleco judging by the nose sticking out of the cave in the first photo. I'd be inclined to go with a species only tank for the L333s. That would take away a competitor for cave space. A variety of cave sizes, shapes and styles would be wise. My Super Reds like to breed in the smallest PVC pipe caves I have instead of the roomier ones. Lots of good food is always a good idea when you're trying to breed fish. Even leftover food lying around for them to nibble on at their leisure is wise.  The Super Reds in my tank three feet to my right are still nibbling on the green beans I put in at 6:30 this morning as I type this. (Four hours ago and they'll get more food at four-ish. And I just took a photo as proof that I'll post below.) Adding a powerhead down low to create flow around some of the caves might be helpful also. Assuming you have at least one male and one female (very important for breeding success and not always guaranteed) then in time they should breed.

By the way, you're often more likely to get a male/female mix if the fish aren't the same size when bought. If you wanted the five biggest when you bought them you could end up with five of the same sex. When buying hard to sex fish it's wisest to buy a variety of sizes and body shapes when possible. If the seller is online then be sure to ask for a variety of body sizes/shapes. Some sellers will just automatically dish up the biggest fish and if they do so, and there's a size difference between males and females (as there often is) you may find your breeding success to be much more difficult. In a perfect world with five unsexed fish you'd have one larger than the rest, one wider than the rest, one smaller than the rest and one narrower than the rest. Female fish tend to be broader to accomodate eggs. Males tend to be narrower. Some females tend to be larger overall while some males tend to be smaller. It's not a guarantee of success, but getting a variety of body shapes can often help with breeding success down the road.

 

 

[Tihshho]

I agree with @gardenman, relocating the Ancistrus will provide less competition for breeding space. If this is a display (which it looks to be somewhat) and you still want to keep the Ancistrus in there, just pull the males. The males are the ones that will fight for the caves and fight to guard them. The females kind of just roam the tank and don't put up much (if any) of a fight if another pleco evicts them from their cave.

As for your cave choice, these might work, but IME most pleco's prefer longer and tighter caves (think more so tubes, or like the plant watering stakes that gardenman has) to be able to trap and guard the eggs. I can't say for sure when it comes to L333's or Hypancistrus in general, but from the limited experience I have with them (L260's in my case) they were more shy about their breeding unlike your standard Ancistrus who will spawn just about anywhere when they are ready. 

[Saltinthedesert]

@gardenman

the King Tigers I have are 3 different sizes. There are other Plecos in the tank but the l333s are the only ones consistently in caves. They get a lot of different kinds of food, including brine and bloodworms. 

[Saltinthedesert]

Also worth mentioning there are no longer any male BNs in the tank. Female albino and female lemon. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Saltinthedesert

[gardenman]

You might want to drop in some chunkier food from time to time like a shrimp (like those eaten by humans rather than the brine variety) that they can graze on at their leisure. They're carnivores and pretty chunky fish so chunkier food can help condition them for spawning.  If all of your L333s are using caves they could all be males. The males tend to be the cave users more than the females. If they're all males, breeding success will be a lot more challenging. One of the ways recommended to sex L333s is to watch which ones go in caves. Males tend to use caves while females don't. Males will develop teeth-like projections called odontodes on their face and pecs also. If all five of yours are in caves and have the odontodes, then you've got a problem.

[Saltinthedesert]

@gardenmanthanks for responding. I’m fairly certain that my largest king tiger is female, despite the fact that she will often sit half in and half out of a cave with a large opening. I think it’s because I have other plecos and bottom feeders in the tank and that is why she caves up (claiming space). She doesn’t have the odontodes on the pecs. See below:

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Saltinthedesert
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