Atitagain Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Been fish keeping about 30 years but 98%of that not knowing there was such a thing as a nitrogen cycle let alone understanding it.Breeding during that time was all accidental. Over the last couple years been learning a lot and attempting to breed fish on purpose. Ive breed (on purpose) 3 types of African cichlids, platties, mystery snails, guppies, cherry shrimp, endlers, and my latest project bristlenose. I have been very successful with all these projects. I do a lot of research, try and create a good environment, watch and entice breeding behavior, closely watch water parameters, and feed feed feed. ok so parameters of project; 20G tank, not easy but not to difficult (wanna step up my game), will have to start with fish I have or cheap to buy, and will stay in 20G for a good while. fish I would buy that I’m thinking about; shellies, some type of small plecos, corys, and German blue rams ( big fan of GBR and have tried before and failed) fish I have that I’m thinking about; salt and pepper corys, pea puffers (fairly confident I have 1M and 2F), and my ultimate goal fish to breed rummynose tetra ( have read these are more for advanced breeders?) this is not a breed for profit project. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Playz Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 I have said this many times but WHITE CLOUDS. Mine bred without me hardly doing anything. All you have to do is add some tannins and do alot of water changes. Then I got fry. Currently have about 20 fry in my 5.5 and they are doing well. Just make sure too give really fine foods because they are so tiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSH OUTDOORS Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Do you envision the fry/eggs and parents staying in the 20 gallon the entire time? The reason I ask is this really does determine what is an option and what is not an option. Is the tank a 20 Long or 20 Tall? I have had great success with multiple shellies in 33 longs and there is not reason some of these would not work in a 20 Long. All of the current fish you have had success with tells me you are working with harder water with a higher PH. If this is the case then the shellies would be a good option. I think you will need to do more fine tuning to match the conditions needed for GBR, some Cory and rummynose. Not saying they aren't a good fit, just saying that there will be additional efforts to get the water right. Also know that nitrogen cycle bacteria do much better in a higher PH system so what you are doing currently in those tanks will need to be adjusted for the lower PH needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Playz Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Some variatus platies would be cool too. Cory has a few videos on them. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Playz Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Mine don't. The adults aren't eating them at all though they occasionally chase them around attempting to eat them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 7:50 AM, Taco Playz said: I have said this many times but WHITE CLOUDS. Mine bred without me hardly doing anything. All you have to do is add some tannins and do alot of water changes. Then I got fry. Currently have about 20 fry in my 5.5 and they are doing well. Just make sure too give really fine foods because they are so tiny. Ahhh maybe a solid yes, maybe it was you can’t remember what post it was in talking about them and how to set up with high flow sounds interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 7:51 AM, DSH OUTDOORS said: Do you envision the fry/eggs and parents staying in the 20 gallon the entire time? The reason I ask is this really does determine what is an option and what is not an option. Is the tank a 20 Long or 20 Tall? I have had great success with multiple shellies in 33 longs and there is not reason some of these would not work in a 20 Long. All of the current fish you have had success with tells me you are working with harder water with a higher PH. If this is the case then the shellies would be a good option. I think you will need to do more fine tuning to match the conditions needed for GBR, some Cory and rummynose. Not saying they aren't a good fit, just saying that there will be additional efforts to get the water right. Also know that nitrogen cycle bacteria do much better in a higher PH system so what you are doing currently in those tanks will need to be adjusted for the lower PH needed. Yes if possible staying in the tank together, but moving them to a breeder box or quarantine tank till of size to return is not a problem. 20G tall (should have noted this in OP) hardness is over highest reading on any test strip I’ve used (liquid as well) PH is a solid 8.1 except in a couple of my planted tanks, lowest I’ve got it down to is 7.6ish. buffer is high as well. I wouldn’t mind the challenge of lowering the PH but maybe to advanced of a project right now? what type of shellies would you recommend with the updated info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 7:53 AM, Taco Playz said: Some variatus platies would be cool too. Cory has a few videos on them. Admittedly had to look up to be sure l, but yes these are good looking fish (I have and breed Mickey Mouse platties) and @Noobyi have breeder boxes if needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSH OUTDOORS Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 You have great water for Tanganyika Shellies then. I don't think you would have to do anything to your water at all to keep them happy. Of course my favorite and first suggestion would be Lamprologus Ornatipinnis. A 20 long would have been ideal but they do use more vertical tank space than some other shellies. A group of 4 would be best but probably need 5 to ensure you have the right balance of male to female. 1 male and 3 female would be best but you cannot sex them until you see breeding behavior and who is raising and protecting the fry. Sand or crushed coral substrate, a few rocks for line of site breaks and escargot shells is everything else you would need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tihshho Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 If you're looking to do it all in a 20 (is this a 20H or 20L by the way) you're going to want something that takes care of the eggs so you don't have to pull them, hatch them and grow them outside of the tank. On top of that, something communal that isn't going to scarf down the babies. Options for a 20 I would consider: - Bulldog Plecos - L187b (C. Thomasi) - Egyptian Mouthbrooders - (P. Multicolor) - Godeid Sp. (too many to list) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 @DSH OUTDOORS I already have thought about doing shellies, so when I set this tank up to start cycling I used eco-complete cichlid aquarium substrate. (Left over from my 125 set up) And pilled a bunch of cichlid stones with the thought of placing escargot shells throughout. excuse the algae. Good start? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 @Tihshhoits a 20 high. Really considering some plecos would love to hear your thoughts. It’s already up and running but more for cichlids. Could change out decorations and substrate if it didn’t get too expensive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSH OUTDOORS Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 10:38 AM, Atitagain said: @DSH OUTDOORS I already have thought about doing shellies, so when I set this tank up to start cycling I used eco-complete cichlid aquarium substrate. (Left over from my 125 set up) And pilled a bunch of cichlid stones with the thought of placing escargot shells throughout. excuse the algae. Good start? Looks perfect! Get it cycled and get them in there! They will take a month or two to get settled but once they do you will have a ton of tiny eyeballs staring back at you. That goes for the Ornatipinnis, Multies or Julies for that matter. They would all do great in that setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 @DSH OUTDOORSyea definitely leaning towards shellies with it already set up that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_G Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 With the German Blue Rams you’ll have lots of support. @Fish Folk’s breeding journal is comprehensive and his method is very successful! (So much so that it’s funny) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tihshho Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 11:47 AM, Atitagain said: @DSH OUTDOORSyea definitely leaning towards shellies with it already set up that way. The only thing with shellies is that they would benefit from more of a long tank as they are bottom dwellers that are going to build pretty decent territories with their shells. Wouldn't be a bad thing in a 20H, just might have better long term results in a 20L On 8/31/2021 at 11:41 AM, Atitagain said: @Tihshhoits a 20 high. Really considering some plecos would love to hear your thoughts. It’s already up and running but more for cichlids. Could change out decorations and substrate if it didn’t get too expensive Being pleco's are bottom dwellers too you're going to be semi limited, BUT with cave spawners you can cheat the system and stack caves like a honeycomb. You don't need to go to the top of the tank, but being able to stack them means you can take advantage of the vertical space you've got. Taking into consideration your other post about cutting costs and water being one of them, with any new tanks you're setting up, if the species don't need it I would pull the substrate. Barebottom tanks are a breeze to clean with a siphon and you're not going to be missing patches of substrate with the vacuum. No vacuuming = less water used. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 You could make a few spawning mops to float or a bunch of plant cover and do Gardneri Killifish. I started with a pair in a ten gallon and just watched the colony grow. Lfs was more than happy to thin the herd when needed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 11:51 AM, Patrick_G said: With the German Blue Rams you’ll have lots of support. @Fish Folk’s breeding journal is comprehensive and his method is very successful! (So much so that it’s funny) Ugggg I’m so torn everyone is making such good arguments. I really want to do GBR for the fact I’ve tried and failed and they have to be the coolest looking fish to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 12:05 PM, MAC said: You could make a few spawning mops to float or a bunch of plant cover and do Gardneri Killifish. I started with a pair in a ten gallon and just watched the colony grow. Lfs was more than happy to thin the herd when needed. Killifish another good idea interesting fish I’ve never kept before. Will have to do a little research on them. To know what I’d be getting into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_G Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 9:14 AM, Atitagain said: Ugggg I’m so torn everyone is making such good arguments. I really want to do GBR for the fact I’ve tried and failed and they have to be the coolest looking fish to me. I agree, short of Discus or ACs these thing are the best looking. I’m slowly working my way up to them. 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisnobody Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 I love the suggestions listed above. Personally, I’d pick a live bearer or a few of them, some multies, and Gold white clouds. I always love seeing fry swimming around without doing anything different. I haven’t tried breeding Corys though that does sound fun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 12:47 PM, Patrick_G said: I agree, short of Discus or ACs these thing are the best looking. I’m slowly working my way up to them. 😀 You had to say discus, lol that’s definitely one I want to try but of course not in a 20 and way to expensive for right now. But with GBR I’ve got substrate I could use, plenty of plants I can rehome, and caves. Main problem I see for them is getting my water to a place where they will breed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 12:55 PM, Manny said: I love the suggestions listed above. Personally, I’d pick a live bearer or a few of them, some multies, and Gold white clouds. I always love seeing fry swimming around without doing anything different. I haven’t tried breeding Corys though that does sound fun. With corys I have plenty of tanks I can transfer them to if I start getting over run. Especially the dwarf salt and pepper that I already have a good size shoal of. Maybe even corys on bottom white clouds on top. If the water conditions would allow for breeding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 @DSH OUTDOORSdo you know this species it looks amazing couldn’t find a common name or any other info but the pic my favorite I’ve found so far. and this guy came up when searching for Tanganyika Shellies it says it’s a lamprologus ocellatus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSH OUTDOORS Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 12:33 PM, Atitagain said: @DSH OUTDOORSdo you know this species it looks amazing couldn’t find a common name or any other info but the pic my favorite I’ve found so far. and this guy came up when searching for Tanganyika Shellies it says it’s a lamprologus ocellatus No question it is a Lamprologus Ornatipinnis. I am keeping the Kigoma variety, it is possible what you have pictured is a different variety. Click here for my journey of keeping Ornatipinnis or here to check out some of the other Shellies I have kept. I have not kept Ocellatus or Simili yet but they would be about the same for care needs as Ornatipinnis, Multies or Juli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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