History thread

[Dwayne Brown]

Hi all, thought this would be a more interesting extension of the "any other history buffs on the forum" thread. This thread I felt would serve as a place for those on this forum to share new or exiting historical information, resources, and anything else history related. And the title history thread is much more open to discussion then are there any other... 

 

As always keep the rules of the forum in mind, as fascinating as old photos from past battles are they may not be completely appropriate to all people on this forum. Also please be respectful and thoughtful, thanks. 

[Dwayne Brown]

I thought I would start this thread off by asking the question of did the French revolution fail? Sure the revolution itself ended with napoleons coup. But it paired with the American revolution propelled new ideas and beliefs throughout the world, such as John lockes natural rights and the belief of popular sovereignty. These belief systems have fundamentally changed the modern world. I think that the French revolution failed as a governmental revolution, but I think it succeeded at least in the early days before the reign of terror. By revolutionizing the political beliefs of France and other European countries.  

[Gator]

The French revolution succeeded in doing away with the monarchy system of government in France, France no longer has kings or queens ruling the people, and the French revolution forced other monarchies in Europe to change the way they treat their subjects.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Hopefully this post doesn't take the thread too far away from its intended direction.  I wanted to share a couple of history related news articles I though were interesting, and hear what other history buffs thought about them.  The  I also wanted to ask others interested in history about where they find out the latest in the past.

The first is that people may have found the tomb of Alexander the Great's mother in Macedonia:

https://greekreporter.com/2021/11/01/tomb-alexander-greats-mother/

It is not a certainty yet, but there are aspects that suggest it may be the case. 

The other bit of news is a little older, but there is now evidence that the Azores Islands were inhabited for a time before the arrival of the Portuguese got there in the 1400's.  The timing of the of the inhabitation, along with some genetic data from mice, suggests it may have been the Norse who settled there:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/norse-sailors-found-the-azores-700-years-before-the-portuguese/ar-AAPhVSm

Whenever these sorts of things come out with flashy headlines at the beginning of our understanding, I am always suspicious.  We seem to rush to what the "best" story would be.  The one that captures out imagination and is easiest for us to understand.  It reminds me of the study that came out looking at y-chromosomes in men in Asia and found an unexpectedly large number of them to be of what appeared to be Mongol origin.  What followed were the expected breathless headlines about the promiscuity of Genghis Khan.  This simplified understanding became "common knowledge" even as our understanding improved through further study.  There was a recent, and I think interesting, video on the topic here. 

This brings to mind the disparity between how knowledge through subsequent research, while as the public we fixate on a story that remains stagnant in our minds, and buck at challenges to that now concrete view we hold.  This disparity leads to conflicts we see everywhere and on a range of topics.  I've never quite understood how that gap grows so consistently.  I am curious what others who like to study history think about this.  Do you see it as well?  Am I blowing it out of proportion?  Do you have interesting examples?

The other thing I wanted to do is to ask the other folks who are interested in history, where do you get your history news?  History news rarely makes it to the front page, and I don't know of good aggregator websites like I do for science news (seriously, somehow "celebrity" gossip is now is front page worthy, but science and history are largely relegated to specificity sites?!).  Any suggestions about where to keep abreast of new history research would be warmly welcomed.  Thanks in advance! 

[Patrick_G]

This month National Geographic History has a great cover story on Viking raiding in the Mediterranean. It’s worth a read, but it’s just one story of a long history of early seafarers in the Med and Atlantic. 

Here’s some periodicals I like: 

-National Geographic and National Geographic History

-Smithsonian

-American History

-BBC History

 

[Dwayne Brown]

@OnlyGenusCaps Thanks for sharing the articles. 

I get my historical news from Smithsonian, National geographic, History.com, Major news outlets like the ny times can be good. I also enjoy a good podcast every once in a while, two of my favorites are dan carlin and our fake history. There is a great website called Media Bias/Fact Check Heres a link (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/) They are pretty good at showing how biased and trustworthy news outlets are, and I have found it really handy when looking for historical news sites. 

On 11/3/2021 at 7:48 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

This brings to mind the disparity between how knowledge through subsequent research, while as the public we fixate on a story that remains stagnant in our minds, and buck at challenges to that now concrete view we hold.  This disparity leads to conflicts we see everywhere and on a range of topics.  I've never quite understood how that gap grows so consistently.  I am curious what others who like to study history think about this.  Do you see it as well?  Am I blowing it out of proportion?  Do you have interesting examples?

I think that it has a lot to do with people reading "headlines" and not diving deeper into understanding a subject. It's hard to talk this subject without getting political so I think that's all I am going to say for now. 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 11/4/2021 at 12:15 AM, Dwayne Brown said:

I think that it has a lot to do with people reading "headlines" and not diving deeper into understanding a subject. It's hard to talk this subject without getting political so I think that's all I am going to say for now.

Fair enough.  I'd not really thought about that angle when I was thinking about it.  I was thinking about how human brains function and how humans deal with data generally. 

In terms of sources, it sounds like there aren't the same sorts of news aggregators out there with history topics as there are in the way I have become accustomed to with science.  A bit of a surprise, honestly. 

I've stopped reading NatGeo years back.  They made a move toward the sensational and then to be "of the moment" and I lost interest in their work overall.  It was sad because I loved that magazine for a long time.

The thing I like about the news aggregator sites for science is they have no commentary.  They just repost thing like write-ups from universities and research sites most often.  You don't get anyone's hot take on the subject.  It's kind of the opposite of political.  A welcome respite in world of news these days. 

[Patrick_G]

You might want to try a periodicals index. The New York City library one is really cool and If you’re in academics you’ll be able to access one through your university. You won’t get the latest and greatest like an aggregator but it’s fun to poke around. 

[HH Morant]

There are lots of history videos on Youtube, particularly military history. It is Youtube, so some are great and some not. They often offer subscriptions to services with collections of history videos, but I have not yet subscribed to any.

I have found myself listening to descriptions of ancient battles even though the video consists only of a map depiction of the military unit movements and a voice-over. Some are very well-done.

As for the merits of the French Revolution, Mao is rumored to have said "Too early to tell."

I agree that it was the beginning of the end for monarchy in Europe, but such a cruel authoritarian bloodbath that it was a failure for individual freedom.

The founding fathers of the USA did it better.

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 11/4/2021 at 11:16 AM, HH Morant said:

As for the merits of the French Revolution, Mao is rumored to have said "Too early to tell."

💀💀💀

[HH Morant]

On 11/4/2021 at 11:30 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

💀💀💀

OK, maybe I should avoid quoting the biggest mass  murderer in the history of our planet.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 11/4/2021 at 11:33 AM, HH Morant said:

OK, maybe I should avoid quoting the biggest mass  murderer in the history of our planet.

Oh no, no!  That was laughter.  "I'm dying."  Get it?  Sorry.  Sometimes I use emojis in non-literal senses.  It's a trait I have absorbed from my students.  Doesn't always translate.  My apologies. 

[Dwayne Brown]

HI all, I recently was reading national geographic history when I came across an article on the ancient Egyptians and catfish. I was not able to find a link for it (since this was in the paper version) but here is a link to one of many archeological discoveries.  

This is a link to a gold pendent of an upside down catfish from the late to early Egyptian dynasty. 

 

Even though it's not the same species I was instantly reminded of @H.K.Luterman's Synodontis catfish Pooka lol. 

 

Anyways thought some nerms and history buffs like me would be interested in seeing this.  

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I love that the Synodontis batensoda is legit shown swimming upside down on the tomb relief!  Also is that a puffer on the same relief?!  Very cool!  Thanks for sharing.

[eatyourpeas]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:39 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I love that the Synodontis batensoda is legit shown swimming upside down on the tomb relief!  Also is that a puffer on the same relief?!  Very cool!  Thanks for sharing.

It certainly looks like one!

On 12/11/2021 at 10:58 AM, Dwayne Brown said:

Anyways thought some nerms and history buffs like me would be interested in seeing this.  

Yes, indeed. Thank you!

[Dwayne Brown]

@OnlyGenusCaps I didn't even notice the puffer!!! It sure looks like one to me.

 

 

On 12/11/2021 at 4:39 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Thanks for sharing.

Your very welcome.

[Dwayne Brown]

Hi fellow nerms and history fans, I recently saw that they discovered Shackleton's ship that sunk in 1915 in the Weddell sea. The story of him and his crew is absolutely fascinating and is a great reminder of the power of perseverance. Here's the article I read  about, feel free to share your thoughts on this amazing discovery. 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Yes, I saw that as well.  Simply amazing!  And that there aren't wood eating organisms there has left the ship in a shockingly pristine state! 

[Dwayne Brown]

I know the ship is in a remarkable state. I'm trying to figure out what type of metal the "edurance" text is made of. In the article it appears that the metal survived extremely well. I wonder if it might be gold although that would probably have been relatively expensive at the time... I cant wait to see what kinds of maps, charts, and artifacts they are able to pull from the main cabin. It will be fascinating to compare historical geological makeups to ones today.