need help - guppies and ADF

[mommygourami]

I have 2 adfs and I hand feed them with planting tweezers as well.  They have terrible eyesight and I don't know how people get them to eat flake food or pellets.  Generally I feed them tubifex worms, frozen bloodworms and frozen brine shrimp.  They seem to love all these foods.  

You had mentioned a frog only tank, but personally I like to keep a few fish with them because they are very messy eaters and the other fish happily pick up what the frogs don't eat.

I only have 3 singular male fish with them: 1 honey gourami, 1 panda garra and 1 platy.  There's a few pond snails in there as well.  

As far as arranging the tank, frogs like caves and big leafy plants, like anubias.  I have sand substrate.

Not sure what to say about the guppy aggression.  I had 5 males at one point and they weren't too aggressive with each other.  Maybe you could try moving the nippy guppy to the other tank and see if things calm down?  I would probably try that before adding female guppies.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I wonder if what they say is true about Bettas in community tanks is just as true with fish usually seen in higher numbers like guppies- in a Betta community they recommend a school of 6 or more of a fish so the Betta has too many targets to be aggressive to any one fish. I'd bet if there were more guppies there might be less aggression?

[DebSills]

I am sad to say that my black and white guppy didn't make it. I'm not sure if the damage from the other guppy was more extensive that it seemed, or he just never really recovered from being in the other tank in such poor water. The white guppy and the endler are still doing ok, so I think I'm just going to keep those as a pair.

ADF experts - in a 10g with two fish, would it be best to get one more ADF, or should I get two? I have heard that ADFs are social, so I'd like to get mine at least one friend for her tank, but don't want to rush into anything and want to make sure I'm making the right decisions before I do anything

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

From the research I did most only recommended 1 for a 5 gallon or 2 for 10 and it seemed to be saying if they were the only occupants. As we all know there isn't any hard and fast rules just general guidelines as it all depends on your set up and bio load, filtration, water changes, etc. Honestly, in the end for my Mum's tank we put 2 in a 3 gallon tank. It has 2 anubias nana and lots of Duckweed, 1 nerite snail and some bladder snails for clean up crew. The tank has an internal filter. Not one water change has been performed since before mother's day. So it all depends. If I were you because they're social I'd get one more. If you're considering 3 wait until after you're sure the bioload won't be too much. That's how I would play it if I were in your shoes. I'm attaching a pic of my Mum's frogs obvioiusly being "social" (oh and no ammonia! 😄 )

[DebSills]

@xXInkedPhoenixX thanks! I'm also glad to see that my girl isn't the only one who feels the need to squeeze herself into spaces not meant for her...lol

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Hahah, yea they hide most of the day, there's a decorative bridge and other little hidey spots and they both cram themselves in those the majority of their days- yes, absolutely normal. This is why they are often kept with fish and other more visible creatures cause you don't always see them!

[skipper]

 I catch mine routinely in similarly ridiculous poses 😂.  Why are you under the sponge filter when you have a carefully curated arrangement of hardscape? Anyone? Bueller??

Personally, I’d get 2 more ADF and add a fast growing plant like elodea or red root floaters or pogo octopus. Because, more plants 😈🙈 (also I’ve applied the advice of trios > pairs of fish to frogs, and have no idea if that’s appropriate).

I have 4 ADF (ordered 3 and got a bonus passenger), 6 bronze cories, and 6 golden barbs in a 15g. Some ramshorn snails, population in check thanks to squad cories  (the frogs were surprisingly useless at quelling the snails’ endless quest for tank domination). Sponge filter. Red root floaters, elodea, Marimo moss balls, needle leaf Ludwigia, anubias, and an Amazon sword set to take over. Everyone seems to get along nicely. I’m giving away/composting the elodea trimmings and red root floaters. 

My one issue is that the barbs seem to be getting a bit rotund from my Italian grandma “everyone gets a big plate of tubifex pasta” style of feeding. I plan on moving them. (LFS said they were top feeders, they are not at all, my fault for not researching).

The tank is by the rule books quite overstocked. I think I did a water change 2 or 3 weeks ago? Nitrates are ~25, I plan on a water change this week sometime for formality sake, after which my customary offering of easy green to the plant gods. Plants make such a difference with stocking, in my very inexperienced observation. They do so much! Clean the water, provide surface area for BB, break up lines of sight, serve as frog furniture… 

I vote for more frogs and more plants!

[Theresa W]

I know little about guppies and endlers except for general tropical fish care, but I've been a frog enthusiast since childhood, and I can share some of my knowledge and observations.

Regarding ADFs, you can't have too many plants. And they should be in all levels of the aquarium because frogs like to hide, but, as seen in one of the photos above, they like to float near the top too. I have 3 ADFs in a 10-gallon tank with 3 corys, an indeterminate number of neocaridina shrimp, and an accidental assassin snail farm. I feed the tank 1/4 of a frozen food cube twice daily, and the snails, shrimp, and corys eat the leftovers. They get a rotating selection of blood worms, brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, plankton, krill, and daphnia, as well as the occasional live black worm. I tried pellets, but only the snails ate them. I used to finger-feed my frogs, but I trained them away from this so that they would eat if other people had to feed them. They don't have any trouble getting food because their main competitors are the snails, which the frogs treat like substrate. 😂

You can determine the sex of your frog by examining its sides. If if has a whitish spot or bump just below the armpit, it's a boy, and if no spot or bump is present, it's a girl. They are social animals and do better in groups, so you should indeed acquire a few friends for your froggie. If you get some boys, once they're settled in, you'll know that they're happy when they start singing at night. Mine start chirping almost every night when I come into the bedroom to go to sleep, and it makes me smile every time. Good luck, thank you for being a decent human, and happy frogging! 🐸

[DebSills]

@skipper and @Theresa W thanks, I think I'll work on increasing my plant stock before I get her some buddies (pretty sure a female). I lost all three anubias to rot, so not sure if I can put more anubias back in or what the rule is for that, I do have some red root floaters in there, and I have some frogbit on order. I do have a large jungle of PSO in my main tank that I could trim and put in there, but not sure...I do have some crypt spiralis in my main tank that is basically hidden behind all the pogo, so I could steal that for the back wall...hmmm...

For hiding spots, I have one terra cotta pot in there and I just got a couple more that I want to put in there because she finally found it and loves it, and for $.79 you can't really get a better decoration for that price! She also loves to hide under the sponge filter...she looks like a skydiver under there 😆

Once I get the plants established, then I think I'll get two frogs...that's my plan...for now at least 🙂 

I think I'm going to start a journal for this tank so I can track my progress 🙂 

thank you everyone for your help and support!!! 

[skipper]

@DebSills a journal is a great idea! I’m glad she likes the pot and is finding fun spots to hang out 😊 I may have to try the pots out… $0.79 for aquarium decor is indeed quite the bargain! If my frogs don’t like it I’ll just have to restore it to its original purpose, ….and get a new succulent, of course (multifaceted excuses to always get more plants 😂). 

yessssssss to poaching the pogo!!! 

So discouraging about the anubias, that happened to me with a big box store anubias. I can never get them to stay in the substrate without burying the rhizome. I’ve had much better luck supergluing them to rocks or stuffing them in driftwood crevices. 

You have one very lucky frog! 

[DebSills]

Absolutely devastated - I was a little worried yesterday when my girl wouldn't eat (actually swam away from it) and I came home from work today to find her face down in one of the crypts 😢 I'm not sure what I did wrong, or if she was sick. When we got her out she did have some kind of slime on her, but other than that, she had been swimming and eating up until the last day or two. I tested the water yesterday and everything was perfect and had been for the whole time she was in there, so I'm not sure what happened. I just hope that I didn't do something wrong and maybe she just wasn't healthy when I took her in 😢 I'm just really sad that I couldn't save her 😞 

RIP little cutie 

[PineSong]

On 9/9/2021 at 5:40 PM, DebSills said:

Absolutely devastated - I was a little worried yesterday when my girl wouldn't eat (actually swam away from it) and I came home from work today to find her face down in one of the crypts 😢 I'm not sure what I did wrong, or if she was sick. When we got her out she did have some kind of slime on her, but other than that, she had been swimming and eating up until the last day or two. I tested the water yesterday and everything was perfect and had been for the whole time she was in there, so I'm not sure what happened. I just hope that I didn't do something wrong and maybe she just wasn't healthy when I took her in 😢 I'm just really sad that I couldn't save her 😞 

RIP little cutie 

Oh, shucks. I am sorry you weren't able to save her despite all your efforts. I think often by the time we are 'inheriting' a tank with a troubled past the neglect has gone too far for some of the inhabitants. Your heart was in the right place.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@DebSills I agree with @PineSong. It's not likely you did anything wrong. Which is more than we can say for the original pet owner. 

[SWilson]

I just stumbled upon this thread, I always check out anything ADF related.  I'm so sorry for your loss.  Agree that you did everything you could and there was likley something preexisting.  Bless you for rescuing all those cuties and giving them a good home in the end.  

[mommygourami]

Aww, so sorry about losing the fish and the frog.  I hope it doesn't deter you from trying them again.  I only have 2 in a 10 gallon.  I don't think they get aggressive like some fish, so 2 seems to be fine.  I figure, they have someone to cuddle if they want to or they have plenty of room to get away from each other.  Plus I hand feed them so 2 mouths is plenty for me to feed.   I have only anubias and small floating plants because the light I have is pretty small.  Defintely a few places to hide is preferable. They nap a lot..  I hope you get a chance to enjoy some adfs when you are ready.  🐸

Edited September 10, 2021 by mommygourami
Typo

[Theresa W]

@DebSillsFrogs of all kinds are very delicate, and transitioning from one environment to another, even if the new one is healthier, is stressful for them. Sometimes they don't make it no matter how careful you are. And sometimes they're sick with something that's not outwardly visible. You didn't do anything wrong. My deepest condolences.