Need help cutting cost of fish room

[Atitagain]

Not usually the type of person who ask for help in this way, usually do research and trouble shoot problems. But I need to cut cost ASAP because if I don’t I will have to break down or at least minimize how many tanks I operate. The reason I have to do this I would most certainly make the sacrifice, but if I’m capable to keep what I have or even expand slowly would be my preference.

ive recently had 3 of my grandchildren placed in my home and it seems like it will be long term. Their ages are 3,2,and 1 🤪crazy I know. Luckily we are in a financial situation I could retire to care for them. But we have to cut cost across the board, including the fish room of course because it is just a hobby. But if I can reduce cost and maybe make a little money from it…

What I came up with so far:

-heat the room instead of each tank. Will have to get a bigger dehumidifier and I guess a space heater? What type should be used that is safe for long term operating?

-using more plants to cut down on water changes 

-cutting down light time on tanks that don’t have plants

-selling fish, won’t have a lot of time to market and promote I’m limited time I can leave the house

What are some ways you cut cost? Don’t wanna use cheap food really believe quality food is key to healthy fish.

to be clear I’m not looking for any financial help I’m not in desperation mode and would give the hobby up before it ever came to that. And minimizing is always on the table.

[Maximus297759]

I’d say selling options lfs or not even local anything within 2 hours. Then eBay and aquabid then lastly wholesalers. Idk about heaters I live in Louisiana there never needed for me.

If want make any $ breed what’s in demand zebra pleco things people seem always pay stupid for.

[KaitieG]

On 8/21/2021 at 6:04 AM, Atitagain said:

ive recently had 3 of my grandchildren placed in my home and it seems like it will be long term. Their ages are 3,2,and 1 🤪crazy I know. Luckily we are in a financial situation I could retire to care for them. But we have to cut cost across the board, including the fish room of course because it is just a hobby. But if I can reduce cost and maybe make a little money

 

What are some ways you cut cost? Don’t wanna use cheap food really believe quality food is key to healthy fish.

to be clear I’m not looking for any financial help I’m not in desperation mode and would give the hobby up before it ever came to that. And minimizing is always on the table.

First, I just wanted to say that I'm super thankful for grandparents like you who are willing to step in and care for young children.  As a mom and a teacher--thank you!

As for the fishroom hobby with young kids and a limited budget...

-Heaters: The space heater I have in our bedroom is 1500 watts with both a 600 and 900 watt setting that can also be selected.  That's not many tank heaters, so my thought is that it would probably be more efficient, so long as the room itself isn't super cold/large/poorly insulated.  If it were me, I'd probably select an electric space heater over something like gas/oil for safety with CO and burns, but you probably want to keep the 1 and 2 year old away from it regardless.  "HOT" seems to be something my kids learned pretty efficiently (faster than they learned to listen to "no!" 😉)

-Food: Maybe choose 2-3 types that you like the best/are most veratile and buy the larger containers if that's an option.  Or look for high quality foods that sell bulk containers (like Xtreme).

-Club auctions are a great place to get plants cheap, and like you said, plants could save on water changes.  I've had good luck with water lettuce going nuts in my tanks to the point that I can spread it to other ones after just starting with a few not-so-great looking plants from ebay.  It's also lots easier to clear out than duckweed/salvinia, etc. when it overgrows.

-For selling fish, it's tough to find the time to drive around with kids.  I'd probably start by looking for a local club.  Lots of them have forum or selling places or use PM on Facebook to work out sales/trades.  You could also try contacting any LFS or big box store via phone/email to see if they're interested in what you're breeding.  I know of several around here that buy from local breeders--it's just that sometimes they already have a source.  With all the issues shipping in fish right now, you might be in a good position to be offering stock even to the larger stores.

-Another thought on selling fish...maybe you could do a talk at your local library for both adults and kids and then give your email as a resource and let them know you also sell fish and could help people get started.  It'd be educational plus probably get you some come-to-you business.

-Do you already run airline tubing/sponge filters from a single pump?  In a fishroom, that seems like by far the most energy efficient setup.  I saw a super basic one made with PVC and airline tubing this week that didn't look like it would cost much to build.

-Kid friendly fish room (from your other post)...with a 1 and 2 year old in the mix, I'd maybe consider a way to block off the whole lower row of tanks...doors, a gate, etc. and then lift them up if they want to feed taller tanks.  That could also help with the banging and tapping.  if you did something with a gate, they could probably still LOOK at the fish, which would be cool, without being able to touch the tanks.

[BlueLineAquaticsSC]

You may not even need to bother heating your tanks depending on how warm you keep your house and the type of fish you keep. 
 

instead of routine water changes do routine water testing and only change when needed, especially if you have live plants. 

[Guppysnail]

This won’t be big dollar help but I am also retired so to me every dollar counts. When I trim my stem plants (any plants really) instead of throwing away the bottom portion that has lost its leave or looks poorly from not enough light I trim just 2-3leaves higher so my stem still has those leaves. I take used tank water and some easy green. and sit them in a few windows. When I see any tiny new sprouts of leaves I remove all old growth leaves even if the look good. They then grow into beautiful new plants often 3-6 plants can come from 1 stem. I can then trade them at my lfs or use them in other tanks so I do not have to buy new. 
(please don’t look at the half dead red root floaters I rescued they just hate me)

I also root trimmings of houseplants and they are easy to sell online.

[aquachris]

For test strips you can cut them in half and double the number of strips. If you need lighting go cheap I use a cheap shop light from Walmart that does 5k and was only$15. For plants go low light plants definitely. Especially if you can get some fast growing stuff that you can sell off. 

[Patrick_G]

With the size of your fish room and apparent experience you could set up a few tanks just for money making. 
@Stealth Aquatics has a great journal on their for profit fish room.
In my area folks are using Craigslist to sell shrimp for $5 a piece, fancy guppy pairs for $15-20 and Java Moss for $5 per small cup. 

 

[Hobbit]

I second @KaitieG—props to you for taking in your grandkids! I’m not a mom but I am a teacher and I’ve had plenty of students in difficult situations. I know that’s going to be a huge challenge but it will be great for the kids.

I’ve been trying to build up a somewhat profitable fish breeding setup for almost a year now, being as cost-conscious as I can. Initially I even made my own breeder boxes out of plastic berry containers (I don’t recommend this 😅). I’ve been following Cory’s breeding for profit series and building up a relationship with a “local” fish store that’s a 1.25 hours away. I have a chronic illness so I don’t have a lot of time or energy to dedicate to this, and that time+energy can be unpredictable, so I’m sure others would have been able to do more—but currently I’ve spent around $640 specifically on breeding-related costs and I’ve made… $20. 😆 $8 if you consider it takes me $12 in gas to get there and back! I’m still ramping up parts of this plan, such as my platy breeding setup. But I’ve found that even with reusing as much as I can from my personal fish supplies, there always seems to be something or other that you need to buy in order to get to the next step.

My LFS also sells plants, and it seems a lot easier to propagate and sell those than it is fish.

I’m not up for selling online and shipping things, so I can’t speak to that strategy, but it seems like a lot of work that would demand short turnaround times, which may not work if you have an unpredictable schedule.

So: my advice is first, to evaluate if you already have what you need to breed fish. (Maybe you’re already feeding your fish live baby brine shrimp or already have breeder boxes, etc. Do you have tank space to raise the fry?) Then look/call around to see if you have a LFS close to you who’s willing to buy fish and plants. Make sure they’re willing to take what you’re willing to breed. And then plan on 4-6 months before you’re able to bring them your first batch of fish.

With the plants, present them in a pretty way and you’ll get more money. See this post here:

All in all, it’s really hard to make money selling fish unless you basically already have a setup that’s producing them. I wouldn’t count on it as a significant source of income. 😕

[KaitieG]

I wonder if you'd have good success with growing plants (think anubias or java moss) on rocks or wood and then selling for a premium, too.

[MJV Aquatics]

KUDOS on taking in the grandkids! ... I hope the circumstances weren't/aren't too disheartening.

You might breed fish to help pay for food, but unless the scale is large, it's not really NOT a money maker to offset other costs. Selling fish to a LFS is about 1/3 retail price so the average tropical fish yields about $1/each. Gotta sell a lot of fish to make any real money! I can't speak to selling plants, but again, in general, you need to sell a lot to make a little!

A fish breeder won the lottery and when asked what he will do with the win fall he said "I guess I'll just keep breeding fish until it's all gone."

Energy and food would seem to be the biggest cost savings...

- As others have suggested heating the fishroom might be better than individual tanks. However, if you're already at room temperature, you may need little or no additional heat at all? I took a different approach in my unheated basement by insulating tanks with styrofoam. For a 110g stock tank I used a double wrap of old carpet padding to make a koosie.

- Although a I'm 'a fan' of deep sand and fast growing plants for improved water quality, you might push out partial water changes a little, I wouldn't try to skimp too much on partial water changes. Don't over clean filters as powerful bio-filtration is a fishkeepers best friend. I use coarse sponge material exclusively in all my filters and let them continue to run until flow is noticeably reduced as this provides the very best bio-filtration and crystal clear water.

- FOOD: As previously mentioned, buying fish food in bulk can save $ over time. Store in the freezer for longer, fresher use life. High quality commercial fish food can be expensive. You might culture /collect some live foods to help offset the cost while providing even greater nutrition and diversity for your fish. Micro worms, white worms, daphnia, scuds, and collecting mosquito larvae in season may be options. I have a lot of articles on my blog about culturing live foods.

I hope everything works out for you and if scaling back makes the most sense, gotta do what you gotta do, 🙂

Edited August 21, 2021 by MJV Aquatics

[CT_]

On 8/21/2021 at 9:30 AM, MJV Aquatics said:

As others have suggested heating the fishroom might be better than individual tanks.

Unless you're using a heat pump to heat the room I don't understand this.  There's lots of good reasons to heat the whole room but money isn't one of them.  In the end you're just heating more mass than just the water (though it may not be much more since water is probably a large chunk of the heat capacity of the room). 

 

I agree with MJV that insulation is the real key, either on the tanks or the room.  If you're heating just tanks and insulate the room, the room will get heated by the tanks and they'll loose less heat at equilibrium. 

 

Also for plants, if its just to decrease water changes floaters and pothos are both cheap (You can usually get them on CL for free or a couple bucks) and great nitrate consumers and are no-fuss.

 

I'd also be careful about spending too much money up front to save too little in the long run and or too much work to save too little.  Cory likes to point out that if you're optimizing money a lot of the time you're better off mowing your neighbor's lawn.

[MJV Aquatics]

On 8/21/2021 at 5:26 PM, CT_ said:

Unless you're using a heat pump to heat the room I don't understand this.  There's lots of good reasons to heat the whole room but money isn't one of them.  In the end you're just heating more mass than just the water (though it may not be much more since water is probably a large chunk of the heat capacity of the room). 

I disagree. It seems to me that if a fishroom is already at room temperature, increasing the temperature slightly makes more sense than having 100w-300w heaters in every tank. It also eliminates the potential of any heater failures that may kill fish. I don't have energy data but I know that many dedicated fishrooms heat the room rather than individual tanks... Each to his/her own.

[Atitagain]

Wow this community is so amazing thank you all so much. Such a great response and some very interesting ways to save $ I appreciate everyone for taking the time to respond.
I’ve tried breeding to sell fish before but I ended up stuck with about 150 African cichlids that I didn’t have the time, connections, knowledge, ect.. to be able to sell them. Ended up giving them away along with the parents and more of my stocking. Very expensive lesson learned. so all my tanks now are for show and to breed what I want to keep in them and no more. I want to breed for profit but this time I will get connections first. I was planning on joining the circle city aquatics club before this came about I think I will still make the time for it once a month should be doable. And I have a few LFS within an hour of me. Never really considered selling plants definitely something to do as well. I’m lucky I’ve built my room in a way that should easily convert most into breeding for profit. I have BBS set up, breeder boxes, good air system, and more ( aquarium coop fast shipping feeds my addiction well )

I will read your journal pages and reread your responses many times I’m sure. I will keep up to date on the changes and progress on my journal page.The decision to get active on here has helped so much in such a short time.

Again thank you all ! 

[Gideyon]

I don't have a fish room but I've learned a few things I'd share... 

Heating... I'd heat the room with an oil radiator heater.  It's a lot of wattage, but it reaches the desired temp easily, and the heat spreads in the whole room.  

Fish don't need lights (unless there's some special kind I'm not aware of).   So if there are no plants, turn off the lights unless you want to view them. 

If you're running canister filters, swap them out with sponge filters with a central air pump. 

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Gideyon

[CT_]

On 8/21/2021 at 5:38 PM, MJV Aquatics said:

I disagree. It seems to me that if a fishroom is already at room temperature, increasing the temperature slightly makes more sense than having 100w-300w heaters in every tank. It also eliminates the potential of any heater failures that may kill fish. I don't have energy data but I know that many dedicated fishrooms heat the room rather than individual tanks... Each to his/her own.

I think most heated fish rooms are for the latter reason than the former.  Thermodynmaics says it takes more energy to heat the whole room.  A 100w heater doesn't use 100w 24/7.  it only uses 100w while heating, so set to the same temp a 100w and 300w tank heater will use the same electricity to heat a tank (assuming the 100w can keep up); the 300w will just run for 1/3 as much time as the 100w.  I still 100% agree it's almost always better to heat a fish room, and its probably cheaper to buy a 40$ space heater over buying 30 tank heaters (or even 5).

 

Either way I tihnk the number 1 priority is to make sure the room is insulated and you're not leaking any warm air.

 

[Hobbit]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:01 PM, CT_ said:

I think most heated fish rooms are for the latter reason than the former.  Thermodynmaics says it takes more energy to heat the whole room.

I was thinking the same thing. If you’re starting from scratch, I can see how heating the room is most cost-effective in terms of upfront costs (as well as safer for the fish), but if you already have all the in-tank heaters, I’m not sure you’ll save any electricity by switching. Then again, tank heaters do break, so maybe switch to heating the room when your first tank heater fails? At that point you have to spend money either way, and you won’t have to buy any more expensive fish heaters when they break.

It does seem like insulation is key—either for the tanks themselves or the room as a whole.

@Atitagain we’re happy to help! (As you can see we all love sharing ideas 😄 ) Never hesitate to ask anything.

[NanoNano]

I'd add snails to the list of potential things to breed to sell.  Not high margin,  but extremely low touch and generally pretty prolific reproduction without much encouragement.  Many types of snails thrive on garden vegetable scraps which you might already be generating from your daily meals,  so food costs might be low to nil.

I'll add my voice to the chorus of huge respect for what you're doing...I'd continue to tell your story- send some emails or snail mail letters to manufacturers letting them know what you're trying to do and see if they can lend some expertise or assistance.  While the change in your family is new to you,  it's something that a good number of people have been a part of, understand well, and truly want to be supportive of.  Continue to let us know how we can help...happy to buy you a beer with a economy sized flake food chaser if you ever find yourself up here near the co-op.  Good luck!

[Guppysnail]

I was setting up my to do list today and thought of your post.  I am cleaning some items I picked up for next to nothing from our local little mail ad paper. I often find things at yard sales, in the local free add papers and things of that nature. I even found an almost new filter at one point for next to nothing. I have found folks that leave the hobby (sadly often due to discouragement) simply want the stuff removed from their home. I clean everything with hydrogen peroxide (peroxide is very cheap) including running it through hobs and other filters in a bucket then rinse and let air dry for a few weeks.  I never use the media or used heaters. (Media I have use food grade scrub pad made of plastic they work fantastic and are much cheaper than fish media) and pure pillow stuffing poly fill some even say fish safe instead of fine poly fish pad. 
if you have stock that is omnivorous or vegetarian I steam a lot of veggies for myself using no oil or salt in my water. I often make my own veggie wafers (for carnivores I add actual protein fish food). It is actually also closer to repashy it gets slightly soft but retains shape well. I purée veggie leftovers and use gelatin powder or agar powder as a binder. Sometimes recently adding fresh garlic often lazy and use garlic guard fish go crazy.  I cut when it gels and I freeze on a cookie sheet lined with parchment paper. Once frozen I put in a baggie and keep in the freezer. My grocer has an internet thing when veggies are still good but maynot be for long they do mixed boxes for a few dollars. Although not a complete diet it is great they love it and it saves me a decent amount of money as wafers are expensive. This would also be a fun way for the grandkids to participate and help with the fish that would pose no risk to the fish. Kinda like baking cookies together for fish 😁 you could even do small cookie cutters or let them cut shapes with a plastic utensil so when the fish are fed they get to see them eating a cookie as a way for them to no touch interact. 
You have my admiration 😁

Edited August 22, 2021 by Guppysnail

[Atitagain]

Again this is so amazing, a big problem I have is trusting people and thinking the world is full of uncaring people, this is helping me see things differently. My wife and I had a tuff day yesterday and a long conversation this morning about everything. And we are stronger and more focused, it’s such a roller coaster.

I wish I had time to respond to everyone individually and I will try over the next couple of days to do so. One thing I know for sure is my grandkids and I will be baking some fishy cookies thx @Guppysnail

[MJV Aquatics]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:01 PM, CT_ said:

I think most heated fish rooms are for the latter reason than the former.  Thermodynmaics says it takes more energy to heat the whole room. 

If we assume the room is already 'room temperature' it would take very little to raise the temperature 4 degrees or so.

[mommygourami]

The most expensive thing for me in this hobby is buying MORE.  If you can afford running your tanks they way they are now, you should be fine. Phase tanks out over time if you need to. There's a lot of ideas out there for cheap filter media if you need to buy more, but many people use the same sponges for years it seems.

As the kiddos get older, it could end up being cheap entertainment for them too.  And, of course, the bonus of hopefully being a stress reliever for you.  In any event, good luck with your new adventure! 

[CT_]

On 8/22/2021 at 12:26 PM, MJV Aquatics said:

If we assume the room is already 'room temperature' it would take very little to raise the temperature 4 degrees or so.

to raise the air +4 yes.  To raise the room counting the tanks it takes more than just the tanks.  The hotter the room the faster it looses heat[1] the more energy you have to add.  Its true that if the room isn't heated the tanks loose heat faster but that will raise the ambient temperature to somewhere between that +0 and +4 degrees which means the room as a whole will loose less than it if was at +4 degrees.  So at equilibrium (which power in = power as heat out) you use less electricity.

 

Intuitivly, think of it as the two extremes.  If your fish room is a drafty barn (or worse an open field) then you can heat the room pretty aggressively and it won't heat up much and the tanks will never be warmer than the barn, heating the tanks is clearly less energy here.  The other extreme is a perfectly insulated room. eventually everything in that room will be the same temperature no matter where you put the heaters, so they're at best equal.  Its reasonable to think the benefit of insulation is monotonic as you add more, so you can never do as good energy wise as equal, when heating the room. 

 

Again, the difference could be really small and I'd rather heat a room then 30 tanks for all the reasons suggested in previous posts and threads.  But, that's the thermodynamics of it.

 

[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_law_of_cooling

[Stealth Aquatics]

On 8/21/2021 at 10:54 AM, Patrick_G said:

With the size of your fish room and apparent experience you could set up a few tanks just for money making. 
@Stealth Aquatics has a great journal on their for profit fish room.
In my area folks are using Craigslist to sell shrimp for $5 a piece, fancy guppy pairs for $15-20 and Java Moss for $5 per small cup. 

 

Thanks dude! I am still very very new to breeding fish, as I haven’t brought my first batch to the store, but the profit for me is in shrimp. You don’t even need to heat their tanks. I sell them on eBay for more of a quantity for price than the competition. I sold 2k take home this spring, and I’ll ship a good amount here in a few weeks. After each selling season I cull hard and select the best ones for the next season. Feed heavy and start over. I’m doing research on how to ship fish, and I think I’ll exclusively ship fancy guppies because if there is a problem in shipping, they breed fast enough thst I can fix the issue. Where as these sterbai cory thst I have raised took like 4 months. I’ll probably expand and get some blue shrimp as well to sell. But I run 1 display tank and 6 tanks in my small fish room and 1 ten gallon shrimp tank pays for all of that. I ship 3-6 boxes a week depending on time and orders when I’m selling. 

[Atitagain]

Again thanks everyone for responding all ideas have been thought over and some already in motion.

Update on cutting cost, after having time to put some of these ideas into use and thinking all of them through, it becomes clear I will not be able to breed for profit. Time is biggest factor, to be able to market as well as learn on the fly seems impossible to make work at a pace that would be doable. A lot of other ideas; cutting light time, repurposing plants, buying food in bulk, and more will all be used. Most are long term savings and that is great but I need savings now as well. 
Also time in my room is a lot more limited than I was thinking I would have, so all of my tanks are suffering. (It didn’t help that I started a new breeding project either) but that goes towards my point, I don’t have time or $ to do the projects that keep me interested and advance me in the hobby.

So plan is cutting fishroom in half. I currently have 14 tanks running. Going down to 8 and see how that works. All fish I have to get rid of will try and get credit at LFS maybe sell or donate to a rescue (it’s a 16 year old that is operating a room and I’m happy to help him out sometimes) also if any of you are close to or wanna drive to Indianapolis I would be more than happy to donate to anyone on here just DM me and I’ll let you know the list I will be getting rid of.(I hope this is allowed?it’s donate only I will not sell anything to anyone on here) will be selling tanks and equipment all that $ will be my budget for the fishroom until it runs out. 
this will most definitely cut my cost of operating and give me more time to focus on maintenance and projects. It will be a tough day today, I have put some thoughts into which tanks and fish will go but today is final decision day.

[Guppysnail]

I am sorry you are going through this. Having less tanks after my surgeries and recovery allowed me to find as much joy in each individual tank as I did in many. The facets of the enjoyment changed but is still my passion.  The time and joys you find with your grandchildren will be many. When they are grown they may even join you in your hobby adding a whole new depth to your enjoyment of the hobby.