What Puffer to Buy?

[Patrick_G]

@Myznada08’s thread about her new Figure 8  inspired me to start this thread. I’m a puffer fan and I’ve been thinking about getting one but I’m not sure what to get. I’m trying not to rule out anything at this point, but if it’s over $300 or grows to be over 7” it’s out. @mountaintoppufferkeeper I’d love to hear your impressions on the Mekong River Puffers, they look ideal. I’d also love to hear ideas and see pics of others!  @ZenzoI’d love to hear some thoughts on the brackish puffers. 

 

[CalmedByFish]

My only input is that it needs to have Murphy's derpy rabbit-smile. 

[Patrick_G]

@CalmedByFish,yup, with puffers it’s all about the smile!

[Biotope Biologist]

I have a figure 8 puffer pair as the centerpiece for the mangrove setup. Still waiting on these dang trees to grow out but have done quite a bit of research on brackish fish that won't get bullied and stay rather small. Which rules out the typical monos, scats, and archerfish.

 

With red mangroves becoming easier and cheaper to source, I think that brackish systems will hit a late popularity boon! Or at least I hope so haha

[Patrick_G]

@Biotope Biologist, the Figure 8 has a lot to recommend it. It’s small, cute and inexpensive. 

[MAC]

Carinotetraodon irrubesco is a smaller puffer you could consider. I have had a pair for about a year now and they have been awesome. 

Also I have a green spotted puffer in my first brackish setup. It has been much more straightforward and easy to maintain than I had thought. And that GSP is super personable. It's a real water puppy that loves to interact. Definitely a fun fish. 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

@Patrick_G im very happy with the mekong the rowdier version of a schouldenti for like 40% of the price. I have kept or am keeping a few species and am happy to give my opinions to help the cause. 

The Pao palustris, mekong river puffer top out at 5-6". Mekong are a pretty fun puffer for me. My 75 gallon colony set up of 6 and now 5 puffer ( non bonded female went into the males cave and it didnt end well) was very wild for the first month and now is settled out enough for spawning.

My mekong like having caves especially the male, pretty much any parameter works in the "standard" ranges and 75-77 temp seems to be most prefered activity wise. Mine benefit from heavy plants for both line of sight breaks and in my opinion the comfort of defendable territory. 

Even though they are probably not much community puffer my group havent bothered any other fish that makes it past 2 weeks cohabitating and gets out of the way of their mouth. My understandimg was they were pure fish eaters I disagree as evidemced by my groups of Multicolor victorae and variatus platty which are both growing in size with a tank of 5 mekong adults. If you are going for an individual they are quite alot of "beak for the buck".

The colors on the male with the leopard spot belly and darker green are awesome in person if going for a more intense version. of this species. I obtained a group of 6 with intention to get a pair out of them. The females are the light green males are darker to the degree that you think its a different species when fired up. 

The male is the one with the spots on his belly females are lighter and a little different head shape. They are active feeders and actually dont fight while eating at all fights occasionally occur about territory and end when the sight line breaks between the two puffers. The below gif is nkormal feeding taking turns not biting each other. They mostly chill out in plants and caves unless their person is around, someone breaks the puffer rules and goes into anothers area, food hits the water, or something interesting is happening outside their tank.

I know it exceeds your size list but Fahaka puffer 14-20" ish get pretty big need a 75 plus. Mine was in a 75 was about 8" 2 years in and was a big baby. Never really ate fish, prefered snails and especially ramshorns, would hid in the corner if a fish was too aggressive. Was very interactive but fairly flighty. A good excuse to add the footage of the snail feeding thohgh. 

The Pao baileyi, hairy puffer 6" ish is one of my favorites. I have 3 sometimes a pair in a 50 gsllon no issues ever.  Some say they sit and do not interact but I have found in a group they are more active that alone. When i have removed the 3rd puffer from the pairs tank that puffer interacted way less and returned to normal puttering around when reunited. 

As you can see top left even hairy puffers had a large school of tiger barbs they ignored after two weeks or so. They do go crazy for larger snails as well. I have noticed the size of the snail matters because my Hairys will grab and remove the meat without going through shell. 

Ive also done a group of pea puffer before which were fun to have as a group as well.

I might move the hairys to a smaller tank for breeding and work a dragon puffer as a colony in the 50 they currently reside in the next few months. Anything with a puffer is pending puffer food at the discresion of the puffer but they all seem to be less mindless killers and more easy meal eaters for me prefering snails and frozen krill etc over ambushing live fish. 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by mountaintoppufferkeeper

[Myznada08]

I've been loving learning about my figure 8 puffer! He's of the smaller variety so he only requires a 15 gallon tank. It's nice because it's easy to see him, but he still has plenty of space to explore. 

I was quite intimidated to have a brackish system, but it's been fairly easy. I thought a RO system was required but alot of people have success just using tap water mixed with salt. That's what I'm doing now. Figure 8 are on the low level of the brackish scale so I only need a little salt to get it where it needs to be. I'm going to rescape his tank soon to incorporate more cave structures. I read that they like that.

I wanna learn more about creative ways to feed them. I saw this video where a guy mixed rapashy with crunchy shell pieces as a sub for clams! 

 

[Myznada08]

On 8/15/2021 at 1:16 PM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said:

@Patrick_G im very happy with the mekong the rowdier version of a schouldenti for like 40% of the price. I have kept or am keeping a few species and am happy to give my opinions to help the cause. 

The Pao palustris, mekong river puffer top out at 5-6". Mekong are a pretty fun puffer for me. My 75 gallon colony set up of 6 and now 5 puffer ( non bonded female went into the males cave and it didnt end well) was very wild for the first month and now is settled out enough for spawning.

My mekong like having caves especially the male, pretty much any parameter works in the "standard" ranges and 75-77 temp seems to be most prefered activity wise. Mine benefit from heavy plants for both line of sight breaks and in my opinion the comfort of defendable territory. 

Even though they are probably not much community puffer my group havent bothered any other fish that makes it past 2 weeks cohabitating and gets out of the way of their mouth. My understandimg was they were pure fish eaters I disagree as evidemced by my groups of Multicolor victorae and variatus platty which are both growing in size with a tank of 5 mekong adults. If you are going for an individual they are quite alot of "beak for the buck".

The colors on the male with the leopard spot belly and darker green are awesome in person if going for a more intense version. of this species. I obtained a group of 6 with intention to get a pair out of them. The females are the light green males are darker to the degree that you think its a different species when fired up. 

The male is the one with the spots on his belly females are lighter and a little different head shape. They are active feeders and actually dont fight while eating at all fights occasionally occur about territory and end when the sight line breaks between the two puffers. The below gif is nkormal feeding taking turns not biting each other. They mostly chill out in plants and caves unless their person is around, someone breaks the puffer rules and goes into anothers area, food hits the water, or something interesting is happening outside their tank.

I know it exceeds your size list but Fahaka puffer 14-20" ish get pretty big need a 75 plus. Mine was in a 75 was about 8" 2 years in and was a big baby. Never really ate fish, prefered snails and especially ramshorns, would hid in the corner if a fish was too aggressive. Was very interactive but fairly flighty. A good excuse to add the footage of the snail feeding thohgh. 

The Pao baileyi, hairy puffer 6" ish is one of my favorites. I have 3 sometimes a pair in a 50 gsllon no issues ever.  Some say they sit and do not interact but I have found in a group they are more active that alone. When i have removed the 3rd puffer from the pairs tank that puffer interacted way less and returned to normal puttering around when reunited. 

As you can see top left even hairy puffers had a large school of tiger barbs they ignored after two weeks or so. They do go crazy for larger snails as well. I have noticed the size of the snail matters because my Hairys will grab and remove the meat without going through shell. 

Ive also done a group of pea puffer before which were fun to have as a group as well.

I might move the hairys to a smaller tank for breeding and work a dragon puffer as a colony in the 50 they currently reside in the next few months. Anything with a puffer is pending puffer food at the discresion of the puffer but they all seem to be less mindless killers and more easy meal eaters for me prefering snails and frozen krill etc over ambushing live fish. 

 

 

What's your feeding like???

[eatyourpeas]

I am so in love with pea puffers! I simply refer to them as extreme personality packed in less than one inch of fish!

After seeing and researching puffers, you should decide on which puffers match your tank requirements. They all have lots of character, so I think it will be hard to go wrong with any of them. I wish I had a big enough tank to have multiples since they are shoaling fish, but I have to keep them as singletons and that seems to have worked for me.

I adore having those little eyes look at me and how they flare their tail when they are happy!

Me thinks you should join the "Puffers Anonymous" club!

[Patrick_G]

@eatyourpeas, I’ve considered a planted tank with a school Pea Puffers. I’m wondering if they can be kept with a clean up crew? I think they might be ok with Otocinclus. Amanos would be a gamble but I have some jumbos that might be safe. 

[eatyourpeas]

On 8/15/2021 at 9:24 PM, Patrick_G said:

@eatyourpeas, I’ve considered a planted tank with a school Pea Puffers. I’m wondering if they can be kept with a clean up crew? I think they might be ok with Otocinclus. Amanos would be a gamble but I have some jumbos that might be safe. 

Oh, it depends on the puffer, I'm afraid.

Nicodemus, my older male, literally slaughtered two Otos that I thought would be safe in his tank. Plenty of vegetation to hide, lots of algae to eat. Nope. He hunted them down before I could rescue them. Before the Otos he ate a Cherry shrimp that was his roommate for a few months.

Miss Ethel, and now E-Schi, have shared a tank with an Amano (two inches long), two Cherry shrimp and a Nerite. No problem there. Only the bladder and Ramshorn snails are perceived as food. Scuds don't stand a chance. I should note that these two are a lot younger than Nicodemus, so maybe they are alright while juveniles.

I think Amanos would be fine, given that their shells are protective as long as they have a place to hide when they molt. Nerite snails do not have an operculum and long tentacles, so they are a bit more protected than a Mystery snail.

Your clean up crew of bladder snails can also provide food for them when you go away for a few days.

[Jennifer V]

@Patrick_G I agree with @eatyourpeas! I truly adore my pea puffers! I'm new to the hobby so I was a bit apprehensive when my wife requested puffers but they have been a true delight and much easier to care for than I originally thought. I have four in my very heavily planted 10g. Mine are true murder beans so I haven't been able to keep any algae eaters in the tank with them, but algae management has just become part of daily care and isn't much of a problem anymore. 

[JettsPapa]

I've had two pea puffers in a heavily planted 40 gallon breeder tank with pearl gouramis, serpae tetras, pristella tetras, and Corydoras trilineatus for two months, and so far I haven't seen any aggression issues.

[TankofFish]

On 8/16/2021 at 12:24 AM, Patrick_G said:

@eatyourpeas, I’ve considered a planted tank with a school Pea Puffers. I’m wondering if they can be kept with a clean up crew? I think they might be ok with Otocinclus. Amanos would be a gamble but I have some jumbos that might be safe. 

nothing is safe with my pea puffers......

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 8/15/2021 at 1:45 PM, Myznada08 said:

What's your feeding like???

Sorry on the delay missed that one. @Myznada08 I feed both species of the pao puffers 2 or 3 times per week and rotate between frozen krill with vitachem, and frozen bloodworms with vitachem. I also have livebearers which could be food but rarely are on different feeding schedules. They are nutrient rich if that occurs and get fed lightly spirulina flake, krill flake, or pellets 2 days a week opposite puffer days and one day i feed live brine or peanut beatle larvae to encourage spawning from all. 

I occasionally drop in mystery snails from my snail growout tank to the hairy puffers if they need a little variety that seems to fire them up. 

[Myznada08]

Hmmm. I've never tried vitachem I'll have to grab some. I read that krill causes lock jaw in puffers. Has that not been your experience? I'd love to give my puffer more variety. Right now I'm alternating between frozen blood worms and freeze dried shrimp. I saw a video where someone mixed shell bits with rapashy to make a crunchy substitute for clams. Seemed interesting. Right now my puffer eats literally whatever I throw in so I want to get him use to everything before he gets picky lol 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

@Myznada08 the short version is I havent seen that issue in my personal puffers but im sure it exists as a risk in some puffer species. I agree that feeding a variety is vital to long term health of puffers and all fish in my care. 

Longer version: 

I could not find any acedemic research on the pufferfish lockjaw subject but did find some internet posts from keepers. Those claims seemed to focus on saltwater puffers, especially  the Porcupine puffer - Diodon holocanthus,  in the home aquarium who ate only freeze dried krill developing what the keeper personally identified as lockjaw. I do think feeding only one food is to be avoided at all costs for heath concerns and risk of loosing that food source when most needed either by supply issues or the fish quit eating it. 

I only keep freshwater puffers particularly of the pao genus but I would assume the krill reports that is some sort of a nutrient issue either deficency or over abundance if puffers eat any one food exclusively. I primarily use the frozen foods as a direct vitamin delivery method and the live snails etc as an in direct delivery method for the nutrition that those snails or the occasional fish or shrimp have from the vegetables, flake, repashy, pellets, etc they eat. Krill is an ingredient in many foods to me its essentially the black soldier fly larvae of the sea. 

Every food is rich in something and lacking in something else. If all I ate was carrots, or steak, or any one thing really id develop something horrible due to the lack of or buildup of a nutrient eventually. If I were one of the people allergic to it I am sure the issue would be worse when it appeared externally. 

My assumption, since there is only the occasional report, is that the seemingly rare puffer and krill issue could be either a puffer genus is unable to process a portion of the nutrients within krill fully, krill lacks a vitsl nutrient to processes of that puffer genus, or an individual puffer is allergic to krill or some ingredient in whatever krill / krill mix being fed.

The possibility that something in krill or whatever krill mix is involved is not able be processed by the kidneys or liver of the puffer and displaying as lockjaw especially in saltwater species is interesting.  Do you have any theory on what the mechanisim is that could be causing it?

I havent personally seen lock jaw in a fish from krill and have used it with 11 puffers since 2018 across Pao baileyi, Pao palustris, and Tetraodon lineatus. I also have fed it at a similar rate to dwarf pikes, both crenicichla regani and crenicichla orinoco, and meat eater plecos since 2019 with no issues noted yet. With the rotational feedings and the availablity of fish and snails I would guess at most I feed 20% frozen krill /shrimp with vitachem and similar supplements to the puffers.

For all my fish I try to keep them eating as many different things as possible to minimize the risk of health issues from a deficency or worse an over accumulation of some substance from their food in their body. I have not tried the oyster shell with repashy method but i did obtain some extra for that purpose eventually. I use it as a box filter weight and water buffer.

I also may just cook some clams one night, save the shells and boil them clean for future use. In that case I would bet it would be easy to pour repashy onto or into clamshells as a meat substitute. Depending on size of the shell used and how i repashy it that would probably be able to work as grazing rock for puffers, a direct clam meat replacement in the shell, grazing for plecos shrimp etc on the exterior shell, etc and to help buffer water to some degree as thr shell dissolves over time. 

[Myznada08]

This was very helpful!!!!! Thank you!!!! 

[Myznada08]

On 8/17/2021 at 11:29 AM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said:

Sorry on the delay missed that one. @Myznada08 I feed both species of the pao puffers 2 or 3 times per week and rotate between frozen krill with vitachem, and frozen bloodworms with vitachem. I also have livebearers which could be food but rarely are on different feeding schedules. They are nutrient rich if that occurs and get fed lightly spirulina flake, krill flake, or pellets 2 days a week opposite puffer days and one day i feed live brine or peanut beatle larvae to encourage spawning from all. 

I occasionally drop in mystery snails from my snail growout tank to the hairy puffers if they need a little variety that seems to fire them up. 

Hey @mountaintoppufferkeeper what plants do you keep with your brackish water puffers?? I've been testing Anubis with mine and I just started to see my first leaf of new growth! The leaves that were originally grown in fresh water melted back a good little bit, but the younger leaves and the new growth look fantastic! I think I'm going to take another piece from my fresh water tank and break off the newest end and see how it does. Do you have any plant suggestions that you've used that did well?

sorry if I'm bugging you, you just seem to be so knowledgeable from experience 🙂

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

@Myznada08No bother for me and I'd bet the same for anyone on the forum to talk plants and fish. Full disclosure I'm mostly just doing an semi-informed personal opinion guess here but :

  Unfortunately,  I haven't actually done any brackish puffers yet both the hairy and mekong are pure mekong river area freshwater species, but I generally do your plan for any tank. Test out and see what plants like what Tanks the most and take portions to new setups as needed. I'd personally try anubias, crypts, java ferns, etc and maybe some Vallisneria but I bet those are very hit or miss depending on variety. I'm assuming those rhizome type plants are easier to brackish than others. Do you think you could add more marine like item coral salt water plants etc like Zostera marina or Halophila species of marine grasses? that might work too but not a clue on the laws on those. 

I suggest also checking the excellent brackish planted tank thread from@Chris

 

 

[SWilson]

Are you looking more for a solo centerpiece puffer?  I have amazon puffers and am happy to share more of my experience, but have only kept them for about 9 months so far though.  I have a group of 6 in a 55 living with a bunch of endlers and 2 plecos (who I never see).  They are super adorable and relatively affordable (except they add up when buying a group), but my main struggle with them is the constant glass surfing stresses me out.  Have not had to clip teeth yet, but expect I will eventually.   

[Patrick_G]

I’m open to Amazon Puffers. I’d have to house them in my 75gal so that would mean re-homing some of the current occupants. Cory mentioned that they’re not as interactive as other puffers, has this been your experience? 

[Myznada08]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:15 PM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said:

@Myznada08No bother for me and I'd bet the same for anyone on the forum to talk plants and fish. Full disclosure I'm mostly just doing an semi-informed personal opinion guess here but :

  Unfortunately,  I haven't actually done any brackish puffers yet both the hairy and mekong are pure mekong river area freshwater species, but I generally do your plan for any tank. Test out and see what plants like what Tanks the most and take portions to new setups as needed. I'd personally try anubias, crypts, java ferns, etc and maybe some Vallisneria but I bet those are very hit or miss depending on variety. I'm assuming those rhizome type plants are easier to brackish than others. Do you think you could add more marine like item coral salt water plants etc like Zostera marina or Halophila species of marine grasses? that might work too but not a clue on the laws on those. 

I suggest also checking the excellent brackish planted tank thread from@Chris

The thread was amazing! Thank you for referring it! I'm researching the salt water plants now. I was worried they would struggle because I keep the tank on the very low end of brackish. I'm gonna give them a try tho! I bought a few small plants from my LFS and I popped them in to see how they do. I'm excited to see how they do!

 

 

[Myznada08]

On 9/3/2021 at 1:20 PM, SWilson said:

Are you looking more for a solo centerpiece puffer?  I have amazon puffers and am happy to share more of my experience, but have only kept them for about 9 months so far though.  I have a group of 6 in a 55 living with a bunch of endlers and 2 plecos (who I never see).  They are super adorable and relatively affordable (except they add up when buying a group), but my main struggle with them is the constant glass surfing stresses me out.  Have not had to clip teeth yet, but expect I will eventually.   

Are the walls of the tank painted by chance?? My figure 8 was glass surfing really bad at first, but after I painted the back (and sides) of the tank black he calmed right down. Idk if seeing out all around him was stressing him out. It limits me because I can only see him from the front glass, but he's so much more relaxed now that it was worth it. I also reduced the brightness of the light...... Side note: I've noticed that for the Anubis to do well in brackish, the light has to be kept at a higher intensity. I'm not sure why yet tho. It's just my observation. But the difference is VERY noticable. 

Hope this helps!!!