planted tank with sand substrate

[Jeff]

I'm curious about starting a planted tank with sand. Cory showed the sand he uses in the 800g in one of his videos before (attached here). I'm interested in using this sand. 

Is it just a matter of using lots of root tabs when it comes to using a sand substrate?

 

[sudofish]

I wouldn't do heavy root feeders like swords in a sand substrate. I mean you could but you'll be using lots of root tabs. If I was doing sand I'd concentrate on things like floating plants, anubias, and stem plants that feed mainly from the water column.

[Patrick_G]

In my 75g and 3g I have an Ace Hardware medium grain pool filter sand with a layer of aquasoil/gravel mix as a base. I learned it from MD Fishtanks. Just because I’m still new to the game I use some root tabs. I’m not sure they’re needed by it makes me feel better. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Patrick_G

[Biotope Biologist]

I personally would divide out sections in the tank I want to plant and put aquarium soil there and cap it with sand rather than trying to grow plants in sand. 

 

Although I suppose it depends on what plants you are attempting to grow. Small plants with no root structures will do fine growing along sand as they mostly use the roots as an anchor. Or you can mix soil into the sand so that there are nutrients scattered throughout the substrate for your plants. 

 

 

[Jeff]

On 8/10/2021 at 1:04 PM, sudofish said:

I wouldn't do heavy root feeders like swords in a sand substrate. I mean you could but you'll be using lots of root tabs. If I was doing sand I'd concentrate on things like floating plants, anubias, and stem plants that feed mainly from the water column.

What about using the Easy Planter with Swords? Would putting root tabs into the rock wool of Swords in an EP work out?

[Ragnarok12]

I would second using a base layer of aquarium soil capped by sand in places where you want to grow root-feeding plants. In addition to the lack of nutrients in sand, it also doesn't allow roots to spread out and breathe very easily. I have pure fine sand in my five gallon and I'm having mixed success. I definitely wish I had a base of aquarium gravel under the sand to allow room for the roots to grow. My crypts have done decently well, but I would avoid putting swords directly in the sand. the EP could work out pretty well, I think.

[JettsPapa]

People can have different experiences.  Swords and crypts have both done very well for me in pool filter sand, with weekly Easy Green and an occasional root tab.

[Jeff]

On 8/10/2021 at 1:29 PM, Ragnarok1200 said:

I would second using a base layer of aquarium soil capped by sand in places where you want to grow root-feeding plants. In addition to the lack of nutrients in sand, it also doesn't allow roots to spread out and breathe very easily. I have pure fine sand in my five gallon and I'm having mixed success. I definitely wish I had a base of aquarium gravel under the sand to allow room for the roots to grow. My crypts have done decently well, but I would avoid putting swords directly in the sand. the EP could work out pretty well, I think.

My worry about putting sand on top of soil / nutrient rich substrate, is with sand being finer than soil, that it eventually gets mixed in with the soil and you see both. 

Is this not an issue?

[gjcarew]

Pool filter sand should be just fine. @Seattle_Aquarist has a great planted tank using just root tabs and pool filter sand, with a little water column fertilization. 

I'm skeptical about the concept of "root feeders." This article suggests that aquatic plants with long roots are not necessarily "root feeders" but rather need long roots to stay anchored in faster-flowing water. 

I hate to parrot advice I don't have personal experience with, but the only downside I've heard about sand is that nutrients from root tabs can leach into the water column since sand does not have any cation exchange capacity. I'm going to sound like a shill here but Aquarium Co-op's root tabs contain clay-based soil, and would probably be a good option for a sand/inert substrate tanks since it boosts the substrate CEC while providing nutrients.

[Jeff]

Co-Op root tabs are the only root tabs I use. 

[Biotope Biologist]

On 8/10/2021 at 10:46 AM, Jeff said:

My worry about putting sand on top of soil / nutrient rich substrate, is with sand being finer than soil, that it eventually gets mixed in with the soil and you see both. 

Is this not an issue?

If the sand is really fine you can use landscape cloth and just cut holes out where the plants will emerge from, otherwise I haven't actually had any issues with settling. Granted when I did have aquariums I didn't use fine silica sand, I mostly used aquarium coop sand style that is bigger grain.

[Jeff]

Yeah; the sand I put in my original post (Cory uses it in Lady Bird's tank) is what I'd use. I would assume it's a little bigger than fine sand. 

[Patrick_G]

On 8/10/2021 at 10:46 AM, Jeff said:

My worry about putting sand on top of soil / nutrient rich substrate, is with sand being finer than soil, that it eventually gets mixed in with the soil and you see both. 

Is this not an issue?

In my three gallon I get quite a bit of the black aquasoil popping up through the sand but in my 75 the sand layer is thicker so it’s not really an issue. 

[Patrick_G]

Just a few spots of aquasoil peeping out

lots of aquasoil breakthroughs 

[Odd Duck]

On 8/10/2021 at 12:46 PM, Jeff said:

My worry about putting sand on top of soil / nutrient rich substrate, is with sand being finer than soil, that it eventually gets mixed in with the soil and you see both. 

Is this not an issue?

I’ve been using actual heavy clay, red dirt I dug up from a farm yard in Oklahoma.  I mix in some Osmocote, then cap with either black blasting sand or pool filter sand.  The only issue I’ve had with the dirt showing is when I pull up a plant and it drags the soil up, or if I get too crazy adding water.  I usually sprinkle a little sand back over that vacated area to cover the exposed soil.  My oldest tank done this way is only 8 months old, but so far, so good.

[Ken]

Dwarf Sag roots in straight medium grit Black Diamond Blasting Sand. Lots of root tabs, stuffed clear to the bottom. The sand is about 3 inches deep at that point. This is nearly a years growth, they just sat there for a least four months.

[Ken]

On 8/10/2021 at 9:42 PM, Ken said:

Dwarf Sag roots in straight medium grit Black Diamond Blasting Sand. Lots of root tabs, stuffed clear to the bottom. The sand is about 3 inches deep at that point. This is nearly a years growth, they just sat there for a least four months.

It also started out as about 6 little tufts tucked over in the corner. It's now a patch about a foot by 2 feet.

[CalmedByFish]

A couple days ago on here, I learned that there's a gravel that's only 2-4 mm in diameter. To me, it looks *right* on the edge of being sand. It might be worth considering as a compromise between what you want and what the plants want. Not sure. Just a thought. 

[Jeff]

@CalmedByFish any idea what it's called?

[ArchwayAquatics]

So I'm still doing a lot of experimenting with plants, and substrate has been the general focus. I don't dose CO2, so everything is 'low tech'. My 120 started off growing a carpet of dwarf baby tears - that promptly died off. Struggled to get anything but duckweed, hygrophila angustifolia, and hornwort to grow in it for some time. There are a few types/sizes of gravel in there, and root tabs would likely have solved my issue but I was unaware of them at the time. I had a stronger light at that stage, so I knew they were getting enough for photosynthesis and suspected nutrients were the issue. A year later and most things seem to like it in there, as long as they don't require high lighting. I think the key has been the mulmy goop that's worked it's way down the gravel column turning into decent fertilizer. 

I'm trying something different with the little 5 gallon tank I set up recently. My yard is basically rich red clay with a generous helping of rock capped in grass (weeds). I dug some out, clarified it to get the rocks and some random detritus out, and let it dry out enough to make a nice sludge consistency which I made my base layer. The rock scape sits on Co-op sponge filter scraps and ended up absorbing a good deal of the clay soil (which I don't have a good picture of unfortunately but you can see the sludgy stuff on the left of the frame).

 

I capped that off with coal slag blasting sand: 

And transferred in some plants from other tanks. I've yet to find a tank of mine that the dwarf micro sword likes, fingers crossed this is a good fit for it and I start seeing new growth. It's just sat and existed everywhere I've tried it. The vallisneria along the back has really taken off already though! Will be interesting to see how this one progresses. 

All this is to say that for new setups I'm noticing some kind of nutrient rich *something* under the sand seems really helpful, and my more seasoned tanks that started without it do way better with plants now than when they were 'fresh'.

[CalmedByFish]

On 8/11/2021 at 10:37 AM, Jeff said:

@CalmedByFish any idea what it's called?

Found it. There are other colors. 

https://www.amazon.com/Pisces-Pearl-Aquarium-Gravel-Small/dp/B075P16JL2

[Mmiller2001]

On 8/10/2021 at 10:58 AM, Jeff said:

I'm curious about starting a planted tank with sand. Cory showed the sand he uses in the 800g in one of his videos before (attached here). I'm interested in using this sand. 

Is it just a matter of using lots of root tabs when it comes to using a sand substrate?

 

You don't need root tabs for a planted tank with sand. Just make sure to dose the water properly and have appropriate light.

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi @Jeff

@gjcarewis correct.  I have set up two tanks with HTH Pool Filter Sand - a 30 gallon and a 75 gallon.  Why HTH brand?  Because it is >99% pure silicone dioxide with no pieces of shell or limestone to effect my water hardness or pH.  It also has a clean white color.  When it starts to look 'dirty' (discus poop BIG) I just siphon off the top 1/8" and add new sand.  I've had planted tanks for over 12 years now.  At first I was using the PPS Pro method of dosing nutrients into the water column.  Then I went to the Estimative Index method of fertilizing the water column.  Both methods caused a lot of algae removal maintenance on a weekly basis.  

The Greater Seattle Aquarium Society hosted the Aquatic Gardeners Association International Convention in 2019 and one of the speakers discussed how some plant species respond poorly to water column nutrient dosing.  So I decided to try for myself using root tabs and minimal dosing of nutrients into the water column.....below are the results.  Hope this helps! -Roy

45 gallon with Safe-t-sorb substrate (high CEC)


30 gallon with HTH Pool Filter Sand


75 Gallon with HTH Pool Filter Sand

[Patrick_G]

@Seattle_Aquarist, are you running all three of those tanks with minimal water column fertilization? 

[Jeff]

Thank you so much @Seattle_Aquarist!!! I love this visual and deeper dive into this. When you say "minimal dosing of nutrients into the water column": how little is little, and what are you using?
 

Again; thank you. Looks like I'll be going your route with HTH sand. Your tanks are stunning!

Edited August 12, 2021 by Jeff